Sox Roster Construction for World Series Ring.

[Nick]

 

Lets look at the team as it is and see how we get to the World Series, that is how do go from here to improve our roster?.

I give where credit is due and I command the brass for trading for Crochet and extending him. He's clearly our #1.

I also liked Bregman signing. Unfortunately my only concern with him is his opt out clause. Is this the best time to extend him and bring him into the fold for the future? I don't know.

I am done talking about Devers. He is our DH for next 9 years. The concern for his health and defense sealed it for me. Let him do what he does best. His contract will become more and more reasonable. He can hit and I don't see that diminishing over time.

Most of our other signings were for short term and good/bad we don't have to dwell on it multiple seasons. Buehler and Chapman to name a couple.

I will let all of you comment.

What to do with Casas, a notoriously a slow starter and now add his latest injury. Does he fit in with our speed/athleticism emphasis. He simply looks out of place if he's not hitting 30 home runs.

What to do with Campbell. Will he eventually have a home position? 2B? OF? I'm liking the idea of giving him a chance at 1B, maybe not permanently but for 2025. And I have the ulterior motive of calling up Anthony.

Unless we move Rafaela to infield, we need trade either Duran or Abreu. Keep in mind that we have a right handed batting, fast rising Garcia that just got promoted to AAA. He is 22.

If Campbell is moved to 1B, it clears away for Rafaela to play short or 3B, stash away Story at 2B, and place Mayer to his position at short.

Perhaps we shouldn't go overboard with Narvaez but his defensive metrics do not lie. He is a keeper as catcher.

In summary for the position players, the players that I see can be on the World Champion team are as follow. (my ceiling guys)

DH Devers

CC Narvaez

SS Mayer

OF Anthony

OF Duran or Abreu (if we move one Rafaela can return to center)..you can decide which one to keep

CF/IF Rafaela (defense plus holding down #9 spot in the lineup)

3B Bregman, if we give him a contract with no opt out, he would be a great addition.

Utility Campbell (I'm assuming his offense will come up)

So in theory, our line up could look as follows

Duran, Devers, Bregman, Anthony, Narvaez, Mayer, Campbell(1b-temp, do we give Casas another shot? He has 3 arb yrs left.), Story(not in my future plans), Rafaela.

Here's my action item for 2025.

I like Abreu but someone in the OF has to go and he's my choice. With 5 years of team control (including this year), he may attract good enough return.

Extend or seal the deal on Bregman.

Please complete your thoughts. Follow through on the entire line up construction. You action will require additional action to take place. look at the big picture.  Thanks

Moon, or someone else, can you tackle the pitching staff? Thanks

 

 

[Kimmi]

Honestly, I don't know what the answer is.  That's why they pay Breslow and others the big bucks.

A few thoughts:

1.  Going into the season, I thought this team was constructed well for playoff contention.  Outside of not having a good back up plan for Casas, the FO did its job this offseason, IMO.

2.  I get attached to Red Sox players and hate to see anyone traded or DFA'd.  I also have this fear of giving up on players too soon.  I'm going to probably be the last one to give up on guys like Story.

3.  With many of these players, it's still a small sample size to be basing big decisions off of.  Yes, Casas gets another shot at being our long-term first baseman.

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

6 hours ago, Nick said:

 

Lets look at the team as it is and see how we get to the World Series, that is how do go from here to improve our roster?.

I give where credit is due and I command the brass for trading for Crochet and extending him. He's clearly our #1.

I also liked Bregman signing. Unfortunately my only concern with him is his opt out clause. Is this the best time to extend him and bring him into the fold for the future? I don't know.

I am done talking about Devers. He is our DH for next 9 years. The concern for his health and defense sealed it for me. Let him do what he does best. His contract will become more and more reasonable. He can hit and I don't see that diminishing over time.

Most of our other signings were for short term and good/bad we don't have to dwell on it multiple seasons. Buehler and Chapman to name a couple.

I will let all of you comment.

What to do with Casas, a notoriously a slow starter and now add his latest injury. Does he fit in with our speed/athleticism emphasis. He simply looks out of place if he's not hitting 30 home runs.

What to do with Campbell. Will he eventually have a home position? 2B? OF? I'm liking the idea of giving him a chance at 1B, maybe not permanently but for 2025. And I have the ulterior motive of calling up Anthony.

Unless we move Rafaela to infield, we need trade either Duran or Abreu. Keep in mind that we have a right handed batting, fast rising Garcia that just got promoted to AAA. He is 22.

If Campbell is moved to 1B, it clears away for Rafaela to play short or 3B, stash away Story at 2B, and place Mayer to his position at short.

Perhaps we shouldn't go overboard with Narvaez but his defensive metrics do not lie. He is a keeper as catcher.

In summary for the position players, the players that I see can be on the World Champion team are as follow. (my ceiling guys)

DH Devers

CC Narvaez

SS Mayer

OF Anthony

OF Duran or Abreu (if we move one Rafaela can return to center)..you can decide which one to keep

CF/IF Rafaela (defense plus holding down #9 spot in the lineup)

3B Bregman, if we give him a contract with no opt out, he would be a great addition.

Utility Campbell (I'm assuming his offense will come up)

So in theory, our line up could look as follows

Duran, Devers, Bregman, Anthony, Narvaez, Mayer, Campbell(1b-temp, do we give Casas another shot? He has 3 arb yrs left.), Story(not in my future plans), Rafaela.

Here's my action item for 2025.

I like Abreu but someone in the OF has to go and he's my choice. With 5 years of team control (including this year), he may attract good enough return.

Extend or seal the deal on Bregman.

Please complete your thoughts. Follow through on the entire line up construction. You action will require additional action to take place. look at the big picture.  Thanks

Moon, or someone else, can you tackle the pitching staff? Thanks

 

 

Abreu or Duran? Tough choice, but the Sox will get a better trade return with Duran.And when I say better return, I'm definitely referring to starting pitching.

[dgalehouse]

Winning the division should always be the goal. If you have a team that is good enough to win the division, you have a shot at winning the brass ring. But the playoffs are a crapshoot. Now more than ever. 

[Nick]

2 hours ago, dgalehouse said:

Winning the division should always be the goal. If you have a team that is good enough to win the division, you have a shot at winning the brass ring. But the playoffs are a crapshoot. Now more than ever. 

I guess my question would be without a well constructed team (high ceiling guys), can we even make the playoffs?

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Abreu or Duran? Tough choice, but the Sox will get a better trade return with Duran.And when I say better return, I'm definitely referring to starting pitching.

I have to agree, but when you see our offense struggle, half the games, and implode one a big bat goes down, trading a top 3 offensive player on the team seems extremely risky. I get that Abreu is an offensive threat, too, and we often talk about him being a platoon, but Duran has sucked against lefties way more often than not. vs LHPs

.600 in '25

.665 in '24

.749 in '23

.449 in '22 and .438 in '21 (about 80 PAs combined)

We'd be banking on Anthony matching or exceeding Duran's 2023-2025 numbers (.817 OPS w 71 SBs or about 35 per 162.)

Of course, one of the OF'ers could DH, if we could get Devers to play 1B with some effort to try and be a close-to-average one.

 

[dgalehouse]

9 minutes ago, Nick said:

I guess my question would be without a well constructed team (high ceiling guys), can we even make the playoffs?

I do think the Sox have enough talent to make the playoffs. But so far they have not been proving it. 

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Nick said:

I guess my question would be without a well constructed team (high ceiling guys), can we even make the playoffs?

It's construction paper. So far the team on paper is not coming close to the team on the field, in terms of offense and defense. The pitching was always suspect, but the added depth was supposed to help.

On paper, the line-up looks pretty solid and or hopeful for many years to come. Only Bregman and Refsnyder have short team control. That's not insignificant, but with the money we are paying Bregman, it's not going to cost much more to keep him (and Ref.)

With Anthony, Jh Garcia, Arias, Romero & Co moving up on the farm and in the rankings, we look pretty set, "roster construction" wise outside of the pitching.

Nick asked me to breakdown the pitching, and I have to respectfully decline. It's nearly impossible to know what any of these guys will do, going forward, except maybe Crochet. We know what some "can do," but again, it looks more like construction paper than solid flesh and bones pitchers.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

I do think the Sox have enough talent to make the playoffs. But so far they have not been proving it. 

I agree, and I have to admit, questioning the manager is valid, for this reason.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

34 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree, and I have to admit, questioning the manager is valid, for this reason.

I doubt the Sox starting pitching is of PO quality.

[notin]

1 hour ago, dgalehouse said:

I do think the Sox have enough talent to make the playoffs. But so far they have not been proving it. 

Agreed, but I’d feel better about them if they had a healthy and much less hittable Houck…

[Nick]

I will tackle pitching side with multiple posts.

2 pitchers with long term deal are Crochet and Bello.

Crochet is a stud. His 6 year deal starts in 2026 and runs through 2031. I would hate to think where we'd be without him. I would suspect that he'll get more run support at some point.

I see him with 21 more starts. Let's hope the 'team' does better than .500 when he starts the rest of the way. In his 12 starts, he has 7 quality starts.

Bello's contract runs through 2029 with club option of $21M for 2030. He has not been horrible but he continues to struggle with his pitch count. In 8 starts, he has 2 quality starts. He still has quite a bit of upside I believe and his cash payroll this year is only $2.5M. We're probably getting okay value relative to his pay.  (of course Crochet is only making $3.8M this year). I think he'll get better.

Chapman has exceeded my expectations. Hendriks maybe hurt and may need more time after his injuries, but there's not way he's the closer this year. Chapman's deal is only for $10.75M. I'd like to see him come back for another 1 year deal. Would $15M do it? 

I am going to stop here. I am with Moon when it comes to starting pitching. It's well worth it to find a bona fide second ace to go along with Crochet. It would be nice to find an internal candidate but he may not be on our current roster. Maybe Fitts has a break through season next year and be that guy in 2027. It's too much of a crapshoot as Moon says. 

We still have several young, major leaguers and highly ranked prospects as trading chips for another major deal similar to Crochet deal. I am not sure if there's a guy in similar situation. Does White Sox have Crochet #2?

I do sit and wonder what if we had resigned Eovaldi and Pivetta. It's easy if you can see the future, which we can't.

to be continued.

[moonslav59]

Nick, I posted this on another thread, and maybe it's what you wanted from me on the rotation. I will add that I strongly advocated for signing Fried as that "second ace" I've ranted about for years and years (Pedro-Schilling, Beckett-Schilling, Lester-Lackey, Sale-Price.) I was fine with Buehler, and he certainly looked better than Kluber, Richards, Perez and even Wacha, but I'd have preferred better.

 

I see a lot of promise in our rotation, especially when healthy or mostly healthy. I think it's better than our ERA ranking indicates, and some metrics show this to be true.

Crochet is a top 5 or 6 starter in just about every meaningful stat and metric (not winning%, so some must think he's a loser.)

Houck is the big issue. He went from our ace to a huge question mark, and is currently on the IL until the end of June or July. Without something from him, going forward, it puts a lot of strain on the others  to pitch like a starter a slot ahead of them.

Buehler is the guy I think we can hope becomes the solid #2, again, if he can stay healthy. He has looked pretty good, so far, and I don't think it's a stretch to think he will improve.

Bello has always been sort of up and down on how we view his future. He certainly has the ability to be a solid #3 or really good #4, and maybe has #2 potential, but he's been kinda lucky, this year and still has not done all that great.

Crawford may not be back until August, and even if he does return, what will he pitch like. He is a good starter, but I'm counting on nothing from him in 2025.

Sandoval is the in the same boat as Crawford. He's probably our 3rd or 4th best pitcher, when totally healthy, but he is not healthy.

Giolito was a damn good pitcher, quite a few years ago. He's showed flashes of that, here and there, but gives no indication he can do it for a 4 month stretch, which is what we need.

Dobbins and Fitts give us good promise, but it is hard to really know how good they are and can be. Batters will adjust to their pitches, and they may need to do just that to continue to look as good as they have been in their small sample sizes of 2025.

Criswell, Wink and Penrod are on the 40 and could start. I don't want to mention Whitlock, because I hope his starting days are over. Wink and Penrod seem better in the pen. Criswell has recently shown he's better as a starter. Maybe he could give us a spark.

All-in-all, I see 8-10 starters that all offer some level of hope and have already shown they can be good pitchers for certain periods of times. In today's game, where pitchers get TJS on a weekly basis, this is a big plus and could give us an edge over other teams, when their starters start dropping like flies.

I've always valued Quality over quantity, but quantity is important, and many of those 8-10 starts have shown they can be quality pitchers.

a happen now

When exactly do you mean?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

On 5/30/2025 at 9:59 AM, Nick said:

 

Lets look at the team as it is and see how we get to the World Series

 

The only way this team gets to the World Series is the same way you and I do, by buying a ticket.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

On 5/31/2025 at 12:33 PM, moonslav59 said:

Nick, I posted this on another thread, and maybe it's what you wanted from me on the rotation. I will add that I strongly advocated for signing Fried as that "second ace" I've ranted about for years and years (Pedro-Schilling, Beckett-Schilling, Lester-Lackey, Sale-Price.) I was fine with Buehler, and he certainly looked better than Kluber, Richards, Perez and even Wacha, but I'd have preferred better.

 

I see a lot of promise in our rotation, especially when healthy or mostly healthy. I think it's better than our ERA ranking indicates, and some metrics show this to be true.

Crochet is a top 5 or 6 starter in just about every meaningful stat and metric (not winning%, so some must think he's a loser.)

Houck is the big issue. He went from our ace to a huge question mark, and is currently on the IL until the end of June or July. Without something from him, going forward, it puts a lot of strain on the others  to pitch like a starter a slot ahead of them.

Buehler is the guy I think we can hope becomes the solid #2, again, if he can stay healthy. He has looked pretty good, so far, and I don't think it's a stretch to think he will improve.

Bello has always been sort of up and down on how we view his future. He certainly has the ability to be a solid #3 or really good #4, and maybe has #2 potential, but he's been kinda lucky, this year and still has not done all that great.

Crawford may not be back until August, and even if he does return, what will he pitch like. He is a good starter, but I'm counting on nothing from him in 2025.

Sandoval is the in the same boat as Crawford. He's probably our 3rd or 4th best pitcher, when totally healthy, but he is not healthy.

Giolito was a damn good pitcher, quite a few years ago. He's showed flashes of that, here and there, but gives no indication he can do it for a 4 month stretch, which is what we need.

Dobbins and Fitts give us good promise, but it is hard to really know how good they are and can be. Batters will adjust to their pitches, and they may need to do just that to continue to look as good as they have been in their small sample sizes of 2025.

Criswell, Wink and Penrod are on the 40 and could start. I don't want to mention Whitlock, because I hope his starting days are over. Wink and Penrod seem better in the pen. Criswell has recently shown he's better as a starter. Maybe he could give us a spark.

All-in-all, I see 8-10 starters that all offer some level of hope and have already shown they can be good pitchers for certain periods of times. In today's game, where pitchers get TJS on a weekly basis, this is a big plus and could give us an edge over other teams, when their starters start dropping like flies.

I've always valued Quality over quantity, but quantity is important, and many of those 8-10 starts have shown they can be quality pitchers.

a happen now

When exactly do you mean?

Skenes trade proposal: let Pirates pick four -- 1. Mayer or Arias; 2. Duran or Abreu; 3. two minor league pitchers.

That package has potential to match any from other clubs. A top-10 overall middle infield prospect, an award-winning starting outfielder (Duran All-Star MVP, Abreu Gold Glove), and two top-rated arms...

It also utilizes Red Sox' depth while these resources are at a premium not seen in the organization in about a decade. The time is right, and the need is ripe.

[Bellhorn04]

25 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Skenes trade proposal: let Pirates pick four -- 1. Mayer or Arias; 2. Duran or Abreu; 3. two minor league pitchers.

That package has potential to match any from other clubs. A top-10 overall middle infield prospect, an award-winning starting outfielder (Duran All-Star MVP, Abreu Gold Glove), and two top-rated arms...

It also utilizes Red Sox' depth while these resources are at a premium not seen in the organization in about a decade. The time is right, and the need is ripe.

And if our old friend Ben insists on Anthony leading the package?

[moonslav59]

50 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Skenes trade proposal: let Pirates pick four -- 1. Mayer or Arias; 2. Duran or Abreu; 3. two minor league pitchers.

That package has potential to match any from other clubs. A top-10 overall middle infield prospect, an award-winning starting outfielder (Duran All-Star MVP, Abreu Gold Glove), and two top-rated arms...

It also utilizes Red Sox' depth while these resources are at a premium not seen in the organization in about a decade. The time is right, and the need is ripe.

I'd do this trade.

Would you do Anthony, Romero and any two pitchers on the farm?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And if our old friend Ben insists on Anthony leading the package?

No deal. Here's why:

Minor League games/ OBP

Raffy  406 .354

Rice     436 .373

Bogie  385 .375

Papi     537 .381

Manny 370 .391

Roman 298 .403

Mookie 299 .408