Article: Boston Red Sox 2025 Position Analysis: Second Base

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Mayer already looks like an old pro at any infield position.

He's more sure-handed and composed than Campbell, Grissom and Hamilton (who I keep reading on forums as a dependable defensive infielder, when every game I watch he makes a shaky play).

With Griz already demoted, it would make sense if both Mayer and Campbell made the roster, for added left-right bats, with Hamilton the utility guy now that Romy looks like he won't be ready.

If Campbell gets cut, they'll him at both IF and OF in Worcester -- so he'll bat every day. Griz will play 2B when KC's in LF...

Grissom is so far behind in the depth chart, they might need to just look for a new position for him. It's not like his defense is a selling point to begin with.

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Really?  You think they're scrambling to give Mayer a shot at opening day 2B?

Probably not,  but they seem to be looking at him playing 2B, at some point, in the near future.

I agree with MVP, that mayer looks more like a 3Bman than a 2Bman, so it does seem odd that they put Mayer at 2B, especially since it seemed like Campbell and DHam were still vying for the role.

Maybe, it was just to see how he looked there, and there is no urgency to get him ready. If Mayer does end up playing 2B in April, I will say they "scrambled."

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Grissom is so far behind in the depth chart, they might need to just look for a new position for him. It's not like his defense is a selling point to begin with.

It looked like the Braves were going to try him in the OF as a last resort.

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Mayer, and Campbell both will not make opening day unless Story goes down in the meantime. 2B is the ONLY opening right now.

I will not be at all surprised if none of the 3 make the 40 and 26, in fact, I suspect it will be that way.

If Campbell does not make the 26, who is fighting for the 2B job?

It would be DHam FT or a DHam-Romy platoon.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I will not be at all surprised if none of the 3 make the 40 and 26, in fact, I suspect it will be that way.

If Campbell does not make the 26, who is fighting for the 2B job?

It would be DHam FT or a DHam-Romy platoon.

There's no reason to put any of them on the 40 right now unless you are calling them up to the 26 the same day. 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

There's no reason to put any of them on the 40 right now unless you are calling them up to the 26 the same day. 

No doubt. That's why I said 40 and 26, not 40 or 26.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It looked like the Braves were going to try him in the OF as a last resort.

I'd have him platoon with Hickey at 1B in AAA. 

[moonslav59]

53 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd have him platoon with Hickey at 1B in AAA. 

He has to start hitting, soon, or he is toast.

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He has to start hitting, soon, or he is toast.

If he can't hit, it doesn't matter what his position is.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If he can't hit, it doesn't matter what his position is.

That was my point.

[mvp 78]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

That was my point.

No, that was my point.

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

No, that was my point.

copycat

[Old Red]

55 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If he can't hit, it doesn't matter what his position is.

Wasn’t hitting supposed to be his strong suit?

[mvp 78]

33 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Wasn’t hitting supposed to be his strong suit?

He's a contact hitter that was supposed to develop some pop. He had a 920 OPS in AAA in '23. It just fell apart last year. He wouldn't be the first prospect to fall off the map.

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Wasn’t hitting supposed to be his strong suit?

Yup....

.918 A+

.925 AA

.867 AAA

.792 in 2022 MLB (156 PAs)

.545 '23-'24 (194 PAs)

[Hitch]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

He's still a good prospect, but has spent virtually no time at 2b. If they want him at 2b, I'd almost want him to go to WOO for two weeks and play there fulltime to get his feet really wet and then get called up if they believe he's ready. I still think he needs more time in AAA for his offense to truly develop, but I'm also not around him 24/7 the way Cora and others are.

My feeling is that they want to keep him at SS and sending him down to get some reps at AAA, not least in case Story breaks down again, makes all the sense in the world. But the more he keeps impressing, the more he keeps forcing himself into the picture...

[Hitch]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd have him platoon with Hickey at 1B in AAA. 

I'd have him work 1B, too. If for no other reason that if Casas (hardly a stretch) goes down we have an inexperienced Devers (or Romy) at the position we could call on and not a lot else.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

13 minutes ago, Hitch said:

My feeling is that they want to keep him at SS and sending him down to get some reps at AAA, not least in case Story breaks down again, makes all the sense in the world. But the more he keeps impressing, the more he keeps forcing himself into the picture...

And unless someone really expects, finally, some Story glory (circa 2020, his last season with MVP votes), then Red Sox management has to ask itself: is there a better all-around middle infielder in the entire system right now than Marcelo Mayer?

Let's compare, anyway: both have the gloves, Story has wheels, Mayer has the arm, and at bat, both have some pop. As for those worried about Mayer's K-rate, we already know Story can whiff with the worst of them.

We also know the dumb rules about keeping a man down to retain an extra year of "control" -- translation: so you don't have to pay him what he's worth if he's good (and still with the same org, a rarity after a half decade of MLB service)...

... so how unreasonable of fans who'd demand their favorite teams to start the two best players at two vital positions in the center of the diamond. 

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

And unless someone really expects, finally, some Story glory (circa 2020, his last season with MVP votes), then Red Sox management has to ask itself: is there a better all-around middle infielder in the entire system right now than Marcelo Mayer?

Let's compare, anyway: both have the gloves, Story has wheels, Mayer has the arm, and at bat, both have some pop. As for those worried about Mayer's K-rate, we already know Story can whiff with the worst of them.

We also know the dumb rules about keeping a man down to retain an extra year of "control" -- translation: so you don't have to pay him what he's worth if he's good (and still with the same org, a rarity after a half decade of MLB service)...

... so how unreasonable of fans who'd demand their favorite teams to start the two best players at two vital positions in the center of the diamond. 

Story 4 WAR season in '25. Bregman and Story opt out this offseason. 

[Larry Cook]

I know spring training games should be taken with a grain of salt, but Mayer has clearly demonstrated he is the best offensive and defensive option available to us at 2B! 

The three items against him are no time in triple A, injury history and he is not on the 40 man roster yet!!!!

I do not think the Sox get go wrong regardless of whether they keep Mayer on the 26 or send him down to Worcester 

 

[mvp 78]

 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

And unless someone really expects, finally, some Story glory (circa 2020, his last season with MVP votes), then Red Sox management has to ask itself: is there a better all-around middle infielder in the entire system right now than Marcelo Mayer?

Let's compare, anyway: both have the gloves, Story has wheels, Mayer has the arm, and at bat, both have some pop. As for those worried about Mayer's K-rate, we already know Story can whiff with the worst of them.

We also know the dumb rules about keeping a man down to retain an extra year of "control" -- translation: so you don't have to pay him what he's worth if he's good (and still with the same org, a rarity after a half decade of MLB service)...

... so how unreasonable of fans who'd demand their favorite teams to start the two best players at two vital positions in the center of the diamond. 

I'd love to see both kids win starting slots for opening day, but I'm not sure you can count Story out, based on recent seasons where injuries hurt his production numbers. He still fielded great.

It's like saying ATL should have started someone else over Sale, since he had an even longer stretch that Story with no glory.

As long as Story is healthy, I'm giving him a chance to show if he can play like he did, years ago. I would not mind seeing him at 2B, sooner rather than later, if it makes sense for Mayer to play SS.

Campbell has a ton of potential, but we can't say he is one of our best two middle infielders, right now. We don't know. I'm dying to find out, but I still think Story deserves to play. (DHam is another case.)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd love to see both kids win starting slots for opening day, but I'm not sure you can count Story out, based on recent seasons where injuries hurt his production numbers. He still fielded great.

It's like saying ATL should have started someone else over Sale, since he had an even longer stretch that Story with no glory.

As long as Story is healthy, I'm giving him a chance to show if he can play like he did, years ago. I would not mind seeing him at 2B, sooner rather than later, if it makes sense for Mayer to play SS.

Campbell has a ton of potential, but we can't say he is one of our best two middle infielders, right now. We don't know. I'm dying to find out, but I still think Story deserves to play. (DHam is another case.)

No-no-no -- I was saying Story and Mayer are our two best infielders right now. But that just means one of the Big Three should still start in Texas Opening Day.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

No-no-no -- I was saying Story and Mayer are our two best infielders right now. But that just means one of the Big Three should still start in Texas Opening Day.

Got it. I agree, but I'm thinking DHam might get the opening day call.

I'm not sure how much these guys are looking at the extra year of control issue, or how much they trust the DHam-Romy platoon numbers after June, last year are projectionable.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR has a poll on who should start at 2B. The results:

35.5% DHam

33.5% Mayer

31.0% Campbell

They asked "Who should..." not "Who do you think will...)

 

[notin]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Got it. I agree, but I'm thinking DHam might get the opening day call.

I'm not sure how much these guys are looking at the extra year of control issue, or how much they trust the DHam-Romy platoon numbers after June, last year are projectionable.

The extra year of control isnt the only reason teams do not start prospects.  Sometimes they just don’t have the same level of faith in them fans do.  Sometimes they simply do not want to delete depth somewhere by DFAing someone of the 40 man roster.    And sometimes they actually like the current starter, too…

[moonslav59]

55 minutes ago, notin said:

The extra year of control isnt the only reason teams do not start prospects.  Sometimes they just don’t have the same level of faith in them fans do.  Sometimes they simply do not want to delete depth somewhere by DFAing someone of the 40 man roster.    And sometimes they actually like the current starter, too…

Yes, there are many factors that go into choices like these.

The keeping of as many options in the system for as long as possible may be more important than the extra year of control thing. Anthony, Campbell and Mayer offer great depth to the ML roster without needing to be on the 40. That's like having a 43 man roster. Players who signed minor league deals, and can be stashed in AAA without having to expose the to waivers have real value, too. Teams often choose lesser players to be on the 26, because they have no options or because choosing a non 40 man player to make the team would involve moving someone off the 40 and taking away an option.

Now, we have about 3 pitchers who can be added to the 60 Day IL. That could give us a 2 month benefit of adding someone we need, but we probably will only do this for players we want on the 26 or who we might lose, due to an opt out clause, or who may need to pass through waivers. These are not always the best non roster players, but they are good enough to not want to remove from the chocies Cora & Brez have.

The level of ML readiness is always up for debate, and some seem to think they know who is ready and who is not, better than Brez & Co. There are also various levels of ML readiness- like ready on D but not on O, or this kid might need a lot of time to adjust, but he looks ready, and on a team looking to compete, "time to adjust" could mean losing a game or two. Waiting to promote may or may not work out, but there are always questions. How good the player(s) you have already matters, too. We see a lot of various opinions on how good a DHam-Romy platoon is at 2B. Some just plain do not like platoons. Some think 2024 was a fluke for both DHam & Romy, despite the fact that they brought a stability to a position that has really sucked for 2 seasons, and not been very good for over 5 seasons. Is the step up, if it turns out to be that, worth adding Mayer or Campbell to the 40 & 26, instead of someone else, or instead of holding off, in case a key injury forces another need for a different player addition.

The situation with Anthony has several factors at work, too. A Duran-Rafaela-Abreu OF looks to be one of the best defensive OF's in a long time. Ref vs LHPs is one of baseball's best split batters, and offers relief to Abreu, who has struggled mightily vs lefties out of the gate. Yoshida may not be capable of playing OF, but in Fenway, LF is often used to hide a DH-only type player at that position. He is depth, whether we like the idea or not. Romy and DHam can play OF, for a short time. Adding Anthony looks like an almost sure upgrade, but the word almost is key, and losing other options to add him, might comeback to bite us. Do we bench a GG OF'er who kills RHPs (Abreu?) Do we bench a kid like Rafaela who seems to have immense potential? We are not benching Duran. (I keep repeating that Ref needs to start every game vs LHPs, but not everyone agrees.) How sure are we that Anthony will be much better than Rafaela or an Abreu-Ref platoon in 2025?

It's a risk-reward choice.

[Larry Cook]

5 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

MLBTR has a poll on who should start at 2B. The results:

35.5% DHam

33.5% Mayer

31.0% Campbell

They asked "Who should..." not "Who do you think will...)

 

I think Campbell is an outfielder! Specifically a Fenway left fielder. 
 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

I think Campbell is an outfielder! Specifically a Fenway left fielder. 
 

Just what we need. LOL