Article: What Should Rob Refsnyder’s Role Be for the Red Sox in 2025?

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

And you assume that you know everything the Sox will do. We shall see. 

Just an opinion just like you Bub. 

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He keeps saying Cora is not going to change things around, but if Cora does what he always does, he will flip people all over the place to get a better line-up and defensive alignment.

He rarely played Ref in Fenway's RF, so if he does not change his MO, then Ref will hardly play Fenway's RF, again in 2025.

6 starts in RF in Fenway, 14 away from Fenway. 4 of the RF Fenway starts where in mid June when Abreu was on the IL.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Just an opinion just like you Bub. 

You have a habit of always running mine down and saying "well that's what YOU'D do, not the Red Sox." 

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He keeps saying Cora is not going to change things around, but if Cora does what he always does, he will flip people all over the place to get a better line-up and defensive alignment.

He rarely played Ref in Fenway's RF, so if he does not change his MO, then Ref will hardly play Fenway's RF, again in 2025.

Most of Cora’s moves to the non everyday players are batting matchups, and nothing to do with  any D lineup. If Duran, and RAF Man are everyday players to me they will be in LF, and CF primarily unless there are injuries. Duran will not play CF over Raf Man IMO. I’ll say again that all the defensive move the players the last few years has been, because of injuries, and injuries only, and with all that RAF Man only played three innings in RF last year.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You have a habit of always running mine down and saying "well that's what YOU'D do, not the Red Sox." 

Running yours down Bub? OMG! I have said many times that a lot of my post is what I think what the Red Sox will do, and nothing to what I would do. Talk about running mine down. All I have to do is talk about old time stats, and eye test, and all kinds of bells, and whistles go off.🙈 Just like now. I haven’t seen Cora do anything the last few years that would leave me to believe outside of injuries I don’t see a whole different defensive alignment being made in the OF to accommodate the Ref Man. You, and others see it differently, and share a different opinions. NOTHING wrong with differing opinions unless you make it one.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You thinking something is needed, and Cora thinking something is needed are two entirely different things, so if you think that strengthens your position that doesn’t surprise me at all. At the moment there is NO Injuries to make it any kind of need. Saying Ref Man should not play RF at Fenway didn’t come from Cora either. Need I remind you that MOST of your predictions, suggestions, opinions, or anything else you want to call them them don‘t happen.

We lost O'Neall. That is what changed.

We may not need Rafaela at SS, so that may change. (He is now an option at other positions, besides just SS and CF. He did play some 2B, too.)

It's not me saying we need to fill O'Neill's shoes: it is a fact.

We saw how Cora did that, last year, and it was rarely by using Ref in RF at Fenway. Who fills that role is the question, and you keep saying it won't be RAF, like you know.

Are you saying Cora will change what he did, last year and play Ref in RF vs LHPs? It's fine to have an opinion, but we have ours, too. Only you pretend to know it as a fact.

So, who plays RF at Fenway vs LHPs? Whoever you say, will be something Cora rarely did, last year, so it's an opinion.

[moonslav59]

23 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Most of Cora’s moves to the non everyday players are batting matchups, and nothing to do with  any D lineup. If Duran, and RAF Man are everyday players to me they will be in LF, and CF primarily unless there are injuries. Duran will not play CF over Raf Man IMO. I’ll say again that all the defensive move the players the last few years has been, because of injuries, and injuries only, and with all that RAF Man only played three innings in RF last year.

Duran played CF, when Rafaela played SS and a handful of times, otherwise. Why would Rafaela in RF be such a big change? Clearly Rafaela can play RF better than Duran, due to arm strength.

If you think Abreu will just play RF FT, even vs LHPs, that is an idea and opinion. If he doesn't, as I suggest he shouldn't, then who does? If you think it should be Ref at Fenway, I think you are wrong. If Cora keeps Duran in LF just for continuity, I think he'd be wrong. He may do that. I'm not making predictions: I'm giving my opinion and saying why I think my opinion id better.

I'm fine with others disagreeing, but saying because it's what Cora does, when he doesn't is not a valid reason.

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Running yours down Bub? OMG! I have said many times that a lot of my post is what I think what the Red Sox will do, and nothing to what I would do. Talk about running mine down. All I have to do is talk about old time stats, and eye test, and all kinds of bells, and whistles go off.🙈 Just like now. I haven’t seen Cora do anything the last few years that would leave me to believe outside of injuries I don’t see a whole different defensive alignment being made in the OF to accommodate the Ref Man. You, and others see it differently, and share a different opinions. NOTHING wrong with differing opinions unless you make it one.

You obviously did not pay attention to how Cora did move Ref around based on the park and lefty-righty pitcher. You are the one suggesting he will change the way he does thing, not us.

[notin]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We lost O'Neall. That is what changed.

We may not need Rafaela at SS, so that may change. (He is now an option at other positions, besides just SS and CF. He did play some 2B, too.)

It's not me saying we need to fill O'Neill's shoes: it is a fact.

We saw how Cora did that, last year, and it was rarely by using Ref in RF at Fenway. Who fills that role is the question, and you keep saying it won't be RAF, like you know.

Are you saying Cora will change what he did, last year and play Ref in RF vs LHPs? It's fine to have an opinion, but we have ours, too. Only you pretend to know it as a fact.

So, who plays RF at Fenway vs LHPs? Whoever you say, will be something Cora rarely did, last year, so it's an opinion.

Given that Cora once saw fit to put Arroyo and his 0 IP of outfield experience in RF, I struggle to believe he will be overly concerned with Refsnyder.

And it’s very possible Cora has investigated some metrics that show how the occasional weak fielder in RF has a negligible overall impact on the outcome of the game…

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Given that Cora once saw fit to put Arroyo and his 0 IP of outfield experience in RF, I struggle to believe he will be overly concerned with Refsnyder.

And it’s very possible Cora has investigated some metrics that show how the occasional weak fielder in RF has a negligible overall impact on the outcome of the game…

He may not be, but he did show "concern," last year as his starts in Fenway's RF vs LF were way different than on the road.

"Overly concerned" is a loaded term.

I do think we'll see ref in Fenway's RF, in 2025. More than 6 starts? I'm not sure. (Most of those 6 starts were when Abreu was out hurt.)

[mvp 78]

33 minutes ago, notin said:

Given that Cora once saw fit to put Arroyo and his 0 IP of outfield experience in RF, I struggle to believe he will be overly concerned with Refsnyder.

And it’s very possible Cora has investigated some metrics that show how the occasional weak fielder in RF has a negligible overall impact on the outcome of the game…

Well, the plan was to use JBJ out there fulltime, but he had a 000 OPS in April. If he really didn't care about RF defense, he could have put JD out there! 

[notin]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Well, the plan was to use JBJ out there fulltime, but he had a 000 OPS in April. If he really didn't care about RF defense, he could have put JD out there! 

I’ve always suspected he wanted to find ways to keep Arroyo involved…

[Old Red]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Well, the plan was to use JBJ out there fulltime, but he had a 000 OPS in April. If he really didn't care about RF defense, he could have put JD out there! 

For what the Red Sox have done the past three years that was a very Isolated instance on putting a real gloveman out in the field. How many opposites has there been outside of that one move. When’s the last time the Red Sox have had a backup gloveman ready to go in, and play SS in case of an injury? Kike?

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Duran played CF, when Rafaela played SS and a handful of times, otherwise. Why would Rafaela in RF be such a big change? Clearly Rafaela can play RF better than Duran, due to arm strength.

If you think Abreu will just play RF FT, even vs LHPs, that is an idea and opinion. If he doesn't, as I suggest he shouldn't, then who does? If you think it should be Ref at Fenway, I think you are wrong. If Cora keeps Duran in LF just for continuity, I think he'd be wrong. He may do that. I'm not making predictions: I'm giving my opinion and saying why I think my opinion id better.

I'm fine with others disagreeing, but saying because it's what Cora does, when he doesn't is not a valid reason.

How many games would the RAF Man have played at SS last year if Story would have been healthy? How many games would Duran have played in CF last year if Story would have been healthy?  Both of those moves were made, because of injury. Otherwise Raf Man would have been the FT CF, and Duran would have been the FT LF.  Outside of an injury, or a different roster additions I don’t see any changes for this year. If Ref Man plays for Abreu then I see him playing in RF, and I don’t see any shuffling of the other two, nor do I see the need.

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

He may not be, but he did show "concern," last year as his starts in Fenway's RF vs LF were way different than on the road.

"Overly concerned" is a loaded term.

I do think we'll see ref in Fenway's RF, in 2025. More than 6 starts? I'm not sure. (Most of those 6 starts were when Abreu was out hurt.)

I’m still hoping they add an actual fourth OF, preferably one capable of LHP and not completely embarrassing himself in RF.

Most of these experienced MLB back up types seem to be in a holding pattern, probably until players can be added to the 60 day IL.  It’s one thing to DFA a player to accommodate Flaherty, Alonso, Bregman, etc.  But teams might be less keen on doing so for Grichuk or Manny Margot or Tommy Pham…

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Given that Cora once saw fit to put Arroyo and his 0 IP of outfield experience in RF, I struggle to believe he will be overly concerned with Refsnyder.

And it’s very possible Cora has investigated some metrics that show how the occasional weak fielder in RF has a negligible overall impact on the outcome of the game…

This is kind of what ive been saying for the past few years. Cora has talked about how the defense has to improve at length, but for reasons, or reasons the Red Sox hasn’t seen fit to do it. Not understanding why is one thing, but to not see it’s being done up to this point is quite the other.

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

This is kind of what ive been saying for the past few years. Cora has talked about how the defense has to improve at length, but for reasons, or reasons the Red Sox hasn’t seen fit to do it. Not understanding why is one thing, but to not see it’s being done up to this point is quite the other.

The Sox have the best of intentions of improving the defense.  But when they attempt to make the necessary moves, they find that players and other teams are very uncooperative in helping them.  So they revert to Plan B, which is to leave everything as is and revisit after the season's over.  🙃   

[Old Red]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

The Sox have the best of intentions of improving the defense.  But when they attempt to make the necessary moves, they find that players and other teams are very uncooperative in helping them.  So they revert to Plan B, which is to leave everything as is and revisit after the season's over.  🙃   

I agree, but most of the moves the past few years have been, because of injuries. If Story was healthy last years you don’t see all those moves being made. If Grissom had been healthy out of ST, and won the 2B job you don’t see all those moves being made, and all those IF who got chances last year. Cora has said he makes lineups up out of what the pitching matchups will be on that particular game, and not to try, and make the defensive alignment better. 

[moonslav59]

30 minutes ago, notin said:

I’m still hoping they add an actual fourth OF, preferably one capable of LHP and not completely embarrassing himself in RF.

Most of these experienced MLB back up types seem to be in a holding pattern, probably until players can be added to the 60 day IL.  It’s one thing to DFA a player to accommodate Flaherty, Alonso, Bregman, etc.  But teams might be less keen on doing so for Grichuk or Manny Margot or Tommy Pham…

Yes, this whole issue could be "solved" by signing Grichuk or Laureano or add someone else who hits lefties well and can play a decent RF.

That would pretty much force a DH platoon with Yoshida and Ref, with Ref playing some short field corner OF, when someone gets a breather vs a lefty.

[mvp 78]

43 minutes ago, Old Red said:

For what the Red Sox have done the past three years that was a very Isolated instance on putting a real gloveman out in the field. How many opposites has there been outside of that one move. When’s the last time the Red Sox have had a backup gloveman ready to go in, and play SS in case of an injury? Kike?

For SS specifically?

Rafaela (2024)

Kiké (2023)

Eduardo Nunez

Holt

Iglesias

Punto

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, this whole issue could be "solved" by signing Grichuk or Laureano or add someone else who hits lefties well and can play a decent RF.

That would pretty much force a DH platoon with Yoshida and Ref, with Ref playing some short field corner OF, when someone gets a breather vs a lefty.

Laureano would be a good signing because you could DFA him midseason and nobody would notice. 

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I agree, but most of the moves the past few years have been, because of injuries. If Story was healthy last years you don’t see all those moves being made. If Grissom had been healthy out of ST, and won the 2B job you don’t see all those moves being made, and all those IF who got chances last year. Cora has said he makes lineups up out of what the pitching matchups will be on that particular game, and not to try, and make the defensive alignment better. 

He's said that specifically? You have a quote ready to go? 

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He's said that specifically? You have a quote ready to go? 

Yes he said I make the lineup out accordingly to the pitching matchups on a postgame interview. I added the rest that implied it to me.

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

For SS specifically?

Rafaela (2024)

Kiké (2023)

Eduardo Nunez

Holt

Iglesias

Punto

Kike was a SS gloveman? Yes he could play there, and RAF Man only got moved there, because others failed.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Most of Cora’s moves to the non everyday players are batting matchups, and nothing to do with  any D lineup. If Duran, and RAF Man are everyday players to me they will be in LF, and CF primarily unless there are injuries. Duran will not play CF over Raf Man IMO. I’ll say again that all the defensive move the players the last few years has been, because of injuries, and injuries only, and with all that RAF Man only played three innings in RF last year.

Actually thats not true.

I looked into it a bit and last year, in several games started by LHP, Cora played Refsnyder in LF and O’Neill in RF.  But against RHP, he played O’Neill in LF and Abreu in RF.

While i initially thought it unlikely Cora would move Duran and Rafaela to accommodate Ref’s weak OF play, I’m starting to think it’s quite possible he does just that…

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Actually thats not true.

I looked into it a bit and last year, in several games started by LHP, Cora played Refsnyder in LF and O’Neill in RF.  But against RHP, he played O’Neill in LF and Abreu in RF.

While i initially thought it unlikely Cora would move Duran and Rafaela to accommodate Ref’s weak OF play, I’m starting to think it’s quite possible he does just that…

How many games did Ref Man play in LF when RAF Man was in CF?  That would be the scenario now. Because of Story being out the RAF Man was not the FT CF last year, and Duran was not the FT LF. This year could be different.

[mvp 78]

35 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Yes he said I make the lineup out accordingly to the pitching matchups on a postgame interview. I added the rest that implied it to me.

That's not a quote. 

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That's not a quote. 

Call it what you want, but that’s how Cora says he does business. 

[mvp 78]

38 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Call it what you want, but that’s how Cora says he does business. 

"I honestly think that the two pillars that winning teams have is pitching and defense," Cora told NESN's Tom Caron on Friday.

Now THAT is a direct quote. Cora decided by the end of the year that defense was more important than pitching matchups apparently.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

"I honestly think that the two pillars that winning teams have is pitching and defense," Cora told NESN's Tom Caron on Friday.

Now THAT is a direct quote. Cora decided by the end of the year that defense was more important than pitching matchups apparently.

All I know is what I heard Cora say on a postgame presser. Cora has talked about how the D has to improve many times on a postgame presser ., but how much has been done about it, and how much has the D improved the last few years? Specially the Infield D. Even the Full Throttle Man mentioned the Bad D last offseason. They changed the IF coordinator last year, and Tek gets a new job title to no avail.