Article: What if the Red Sox Are Done Adding?

[Old Red]

42 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Bregman is good on D and O. The problem is, we are blind to the fact that Devers sucks on DF at 3B.

For the thousands of times you have mentioned it, but NO ONE on the Red Sox from JH on down are not blind to the Fact that Raffy is not a good 3B. It just hasn’t been that big of a concern to them like it is to you, and others on here to make drastic moves, which is what it would be to fix it up to this point in time.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I don't think they really tried as much with Fried as they did with Soto. 

Hard to say.  It was reported they offered Fried 7/190.  That was a pretty good offer, really.  It was just that the Yanks were in on him.  

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, Old Red said:

For the thousands of times you have mentioned it, but NO ONE on the Red Sox from JH on down are not blind to the Fact that Raffy is not a good 3B. It just hasn’t been that big of a concern to them like it is to you, and others on here to make drastic moves, which is what it would be to fix it up to this point in time.

You're right, the Red Sox have all the same data on Raffy's D as we do and more.  They know what the deal is.  I think we will see a change eventually.  They did try to trade Casas, after all.    

[Old Red]

52 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You're right, the Red Sox have all the same data on Raffy's D as we do and more.  They know what the deal is.  I think we will see a change eventually.  They did try to trade Casas, after all.    

Like I keep saying. The Red Sox are just playing the cards they have delt themselves. Raffy was paid as a 3B, and is here for his bat. Casas is here for his bat, and even Yoshida is here for his bat. It would be great if Raffy could field like Mike Lowell did, but he can’t. It would be great if Casas could play 1B like Boomer Scott did, but he can’t.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Like I keep saying. The Red Sox are just playing the cards they have delt themselves. Raffy was paid as a 3B, and is here for his bat. Casas is here for his bat, and even Yoshida is here for his bat. It would be great if Raffy could field like Mike Lowell did, but he can’t. It would be great if Casas could play 1B like Boomer Scott did, but he can’t.

Tell me something I don't know.

I know the Sox will not move these guys to other positions, but I'm not sure why it seems to bug you that I complain about it, while you repeat the same complaints against the FO, over and over, too- as do others.

One of my pet peeves is defense, maybe it's because that was about all I could do well in organized baseball. Yes, Devers, Casas and Yoshida are "here for their bats," and I'm not talking about trading them (other than the hundred or so Yoshida trade suggestions, lol.)

Keep Casas and Devers bats in FT roles. If they alternate at 1B and DH, we cannot be any worse on D at 1B, and maybe we can keep them fresher, more healthy and get them more PAs in a season by DH'ing them 70-90 games a year. By adding a RHB who can play plus defense at 3B, we can solve two issues with one move, like a Bregman signing or Arenado trade.  If the FO is dead set against trading, DFA'ing or benching Yoshida, then fine. I'd rather lessen the LF defense and improve the 3B defense, while improving the offense, as Bregman or Arenado would essentially turn Rafaela from a FT CF/RF'er to the 4th OF'er. That would greatly improve our bench and bench flexibility.

I know the FO is not listening to this idea. I'm not even sure they even discussed it, seriously. They may want to do it, but will never admit it, because they want to keep Devers happy, and why upset him, at least until you actually make the move,

You don't need to keep telling me that it ain't happening. I know it full well. I disagree, and I will say it, when someone brings up the issue. Someone asked, "Who is left that is good on D and O," so I brought up Bregman as a 3Bman, only. It was relevant.

Keeping Devers happy does have value. I could easily be misjudging just how much it would upset him, if we moved him (and Casas to DH, halftime.)

Devers could still play some games at 3B, when the addition needs rest or gets hurt. I doubt a 1B/DH timeshare by Devers and Casas will need many days off, but when one does, or Devers is at 3B, then Yoshida could DH, those games.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hard to say.  It was reported they offered Fried 7/190.  That was a pretty good offer, really.  It was just that the Yanks were in on him.  

Yes, for $28M and one year more.

I do think our offer was fair, but we will never get one of the best of the best until we overpay what is "fair."

[Larry Cook]

12 hours ago, Hitch said:

On the topic of adding, I've ben thinking this a lot over the holidays, doesn't this feel like a pretty bad FA year? 

Take away the starting pitching in which we've improved so done our bot without giving out 8 year contracts, and Soto on which we tried, but ultimately had no chance with, you're left with Teoscar as an exciting option. Mostly everyone else I would not want to be giving out long term contracts with the exception of on or two of the relivers. And even then I'm not overly in favour of doing it. 

 

The position players in particular were a poor bunch.

 

Another reason to lock up your young talent and continue to emphasize developing prospects!  
Trades and trade capital will continue to grow in importance! 

[harmony]

The Fenway Faithful podcast discusses Nolan Arenado, Alex Bregman and Triston Casas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vMT4nPC-Kc

 

[Hitch]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Bregman is good on D and O. The problem is, we are blind to the fact that Devers sucks on DF at 3B.

Concerning trends on his O however. Not sure of the trends on his D. 

He's not a guy I want to see us give out 6/7 year contracts to. Especially to play 2B and leaving Devers stink the place out on 3rd.  

This is what it comes down to for me really, we're all rightly complaining about the FO not spending, but there are so few options I actually want us to spend on. It gives them a get out of jail free card I know, but I don't want to see us spend just to prove they will spend. I think that's why we have seemingly been very busy in trade discussions. 

[Hitch]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, for $28M and one year more.

I do think our offer was fair, but we will never get one of the best of the best until we overpay what is "fair."

Do you see Fried as best of the best? Maybe I'm being harsh on him, but I do not think he's anywhere near that tag. 

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Hitch said:

Concerning trends on his O however. Not sure of the trends on his D. 

He's not a guy I want to see us give out 6/7 year contracts to. Especially to play 2B and leaving Devers stink the place out on 3rd.  

This is what it comes down to for me really, we're all rightly complaining about the FO not spending, but there are so few options I actually want us to spend on. It gives them a get out of jail free card I know, but I don't want to see us spend just to prove they will spend. I think that's why we have seemingly been very busy in trade discussions. 

He is not "THE GUY" I wanted, either, but he is still good on O (122 OPS+ last 4-5 years) and good D, at a position our D sucks- 3B.

He placed 6th in OAA in '24 (+6) He was +8 in '22 and +2 in '23.

DRS: 5th in '24 (+6), 5th in '23 (+5) and 12th in '22 (-4)

[mvp 78]

If Masa wasn't on the team, it could make sense to sign Bregman. If Story and Mayer were always healthy, you'd just throw Mayer to 3B. IDK. There's still a lot of uncertainty here. If Henry is unwilling to eat a contract, they shouldn't sign Bregman. 

[Bellhorn04]

14 hours ago, Old Red said:

Like I keep saying. The Red Sox are just playing the cards they have delt themselves. Raffy was paid as a 3B, and is here for his bat. Casas is here for his bat, and even Yoshida is here for his bat. It would be great if Raffy could field like Mike Lowell did, but he can’t. It would be great if Casas could play 1B like Boomer Scott did, but he can’t.

And they just might turn to the St. Louis Cards to help them re-shuffle the deck!

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And they just might turn to the St. Louis Cards to help them re-shuffle the deck!

I hope not. Just adding another problem. 

[Bellhorn04]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

Do you see Fried as best of the best? Maybe I'm being harsh on him, but I do not think he's anywhere near that tag. 

Fried is one of the most talented starters in the game, averaging 4.9 bWAR per 162 games.

But he also turns 31 before the season starts and this is an 8 year deal.

So super-risky, but it's the Yanks after all, they're already carrying Cole and Rodon at hefty rates.  They just don't care.

 

[moonslav59]

56 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If Masa wasn't on the team, it could make sense to sign Bregman. If Story and Mayer were always healthy, you'd just throw Mayer to 3B. IDK. There's still a lot of uncertainty here. If Henry is unwilling to eat a contract, they shouldn't sign Bregman. 

Do you think adding Bregman to play 3B and moving Yoshida/Ref to a LF platoon ruins the gains we make at 3B defense and with a RHB added?

Casas and Devers share 1B/DH duty. When Devers fills in at 3B or one of Casas or devers rests or gets hurt, Yoshida or Ref can DH.

I realize they don't want to hurt Devers' feelings, but this should be about building a stronger team, not our star's feelings.

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

Do you see Fried as best of the best? Maybe I'm being harsh on him, but I do not think he's anywhere near that tag. 

He is among the "best of the best," now, but he won't be, soon.

I'm not upset about not outbidding the Yanks on him, specifically, but I might rather have him that spend close to the same AAV on Buehler & Sandoval, every season for 8 years.

I said in another post that only the Kikuchi deal looks like a clear contract I'd have offered more, but maybe he'd have said no, anyway.

I'm thinking I would overpay for Scott, because he might only need a 4 or 5 year offer- not 7-8 years.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Do you think adding Bregman to play 3B and moving Yoshida/Ref to a LF platoon ruins the gains we make at 3B defense and with a RHB added?

Casas and Devers share 1B/DH duty. When Devers fills in at 3B or one of Casas or devers rests or gets hurt, Yoshida or Ref can DH.

I realize they don't want to hurt Devers' feelings, but this should be about building a stronger team, not our star's feelings.

Bregman just adds another roadblock for cheaper options in Mayer and Campbell. If Bregman was only going to sign for 3 years, I could see them making this deal, but he's probably going to want 5 and his bat is already dropping off. Why build up your farm only to sign older players that are in decline? 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

He is among the "best of the best," now, but he won't be, soon.

I'm not upset about not outbidding the Yanks on him, specifically, but I might rather have him that spend close to the same AAV on Buehler & Sandoval, every season for 8 years.

I said in another post that only the Kikuchi deal looks like a clear contract I'd have offered more, but maybe he'd have said no, anyway.

I'm thinking I would overpay for Scott, because he might only need a 4 or 5 year offer- not 7-8 years.

I like Fried, but I've noted his injury risk. Another TJS and his career could be over. His elbow has flared up the past few years and needed to be managed. Wishing the Yankees bad luck on this one. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Bregman just adds another roadblock for cheaper options in Mayer and Campbell. If Bregman was only going to sign for 3 years, I could see them making this deal, but he's probably going to want 5 and his bat is already dropping off. Why build up your farm only to sign older players that are in decline? 

Bregman was never "the guy" I wanted, but we need to find a way to upgrade some of our weakest areas. I'd rather we sign Scott to less AAV and 4-5 years than Bregman to 7 or 8 years, but our team lacks all around everyday players, sucks at 3B defense and needs help vs LHPs. Bregman checks all 3 boxes.

No doubt, it would be a knee jerk reaction move, but he'd improve the team, day one, in 2-3 areas.

As for blocking Mayer and Campbell, if both turn out to be worthy of being a FT starter, Campbell could play OF, until Story gets hurt or his contract ends. We could also try to trade Story plus some cash for Sean Murphy.

[moonslav59]

To me, our weakest areas, in order are....

1. A lockdown closer (Scott? Helsley for 1 year?)

2. Catcher (Sean Murphy? Caratini for 1 year?)

4. 3B Defense (Arenado or Bregman are 2 names being discussed)

5. RH bat with some power and OBP skills (Arenado, Bregman, Grichuk and ____?)

6. 1B defense (not happening)

 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Bregman was never "the guy" I wanted, but we need to find a way to upgrade some of our weakest areas. I'd rather we sign Scott to less AAV and 4-5 years than Bregman to 7 or 8 years, but our team lacks all around everyday players, sucks at 3B defense and needs help vs LHPs. Bregman checks all 3 boxes.

No doubt, it would be a knee jerk reaction move, but he'd improve the team, day one, in 2-3 areas.

As for blocking Mayer and Campbell, if both turn out to be worthy of being a FT starter, Campbell could play OF, until Story gets hurt or his contract ends. We could also try to trade Story plus some cash for Sean Murphy.

How is Campbell going to find room in the OF when Rafaela, Anthony, Abreu and Duran will all be getting consistent PA's?

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

How is Campbell going to find room in the OF when Rafaela, Anthony, Abreu and Duran will all be getting consistent PA's?

There are people wanting us to sign Grichuk. Others, including myself see us trading Abreu.

Trade Abreu for a catcher and or solid RP'er.

Duran LF

Anthony CF 

Campbell RF

Rafaela Super Utility

This is not to say I'm against Campbell at 2B FT or even 3B FT with Devers to 1B/DH w Casas.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

There are people wanting us to sign Grichuk. Others, including myself see us trading Abreu.

Trade Abreu for a catcher and or solid RP'er.

Duran LF

Anthony CF 

Campbell RF

Rafaela Super Utility

This is not to say I'm against Campbell at 2B FT or even 3B FT with Devers to 1B/DH w Casas.

In that scenario, Duran would stay in center and Anthony would be moved to a corner. I believe that's a better fit for their skillsets. I think Anthony may have a stronger arm than Campbell so could also be a better fit in RF too. 

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

In that scenario, Duran would stay in center and Anthony would be moved to a corner. I believe that's a better fit for their skillsets. I think Anthony may have a stronger arm than Campbell so could also be a better fit in RF too. 

So, Campbell in LF with Rafaela as the super utility guy. 

Trade Abreu, and if Campbell hits, we solved the balancing act we are looking to spend big money on, if The Bregman & Arenado rumors are true. (MLBTR just posted we are interested in Alonso, too.)

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

So, Campbell in LF with Rafaela as the super utility guy. 

Trade Abreu, and if Campbell hits, we solved the balancing act we are looking to spend big money on, if The Bregman & Arenado rumors are true. (MLBTR just posted we are interested in Alonso, too.)

I guess. I think Campbell is a 2b, but would be fine in LF.

[moonslav59]

41 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I guess. I think Campbell is a 2b, but would be fine in LF.

Oh, I agree, but I think he could fill an OF role, if we shuffled other guys around.

If Mayer comes up and proves himself, we could have the OF issue at MI, although one could play 3B and push Devers to 1B/DH, but then we start all over again with the same old-same old.

If all 3 kids pan out, it will be a fun problem to solve, and teams will be beating down the door to trade for one, of we might be able to unload Story, Abreu, Rafaela or two from the troika of DHam-Grissom & Romy.

[Larry Cook]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Oh, I agree, but I think he could fill an OF role, if we shuffled other guys around.

If Mayer comes up and proves himself, we could have the OF issue at MI, although one could play 3B and push Devers to 1B/DH, but then we start all over again with the same old-same old.

If all 3 kids pan out, it will be a fun problem to solve, and teams will be beating down the door to trade for one, of we might be able to unload Story, Abreu, Rafaela or two from the troika of DHam-Grissom & Romy.

I have absolutely no confidence in devers at first base!! But I feel much better about him at DH!  

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I have absolutely no confidence in devers at first base!! But I feel much better about him at DH!  

It would be hard for him to be worse than Casas, except he's shorter.

He's not bad with his glove and quickness. His major issue is arm accuracy. If Casas is better, then yes, he DHs FT.

[mvp 78]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

It would be hard for him to be worse than Casas, except he's shorter.

He's not bad with his glove and quickness. His major issue is arm accuracy. If Casas is better, then yes, he DHs FT.

Yeah, we've already seen what Casas is at 1B, might as well try Devers.