6/11 Phillies @ SOX 7:10PM ET

[notin]

He was the worst Cooper to play for the Red Sox.

 

Just ahead of Criswell?

 

And where does Scott rank on this list?

[notin]

Jen is reporting it’s 90% Phillies fans out around Fenway. Love it!

 

Why?

 

It doesn’t matter to Henry who buys the tickets. As long as someone does…

[notin]

474 winning % (Marlins at 460, Padres at 465, Rockies at 464)

11,279 losses (#1)

2 WS (Rockies, Padres have 0)

 

They have a good claim at worst franchise of all time, but the 2 World Series titles kind of turns it around. Over the past 50 years, they've been a fairly good franchise. Their distant past is what drags them down. That's history pal!

 

Marlins are pathetic, but have a few rings. Rockies and Padres have similar W/L and neither have won a World Series. Rockies have Rocktober. Padres beat the Cubbies for an episode of Punky Brewster. I believe the worst franchise of all time is the Padres. Their 5th highest career bWAR guy is Andy Ashby at 22.6 bWAR (he wouldn't be top 5 for the Rockies who have a 25 year disadvantage).

 

That’s fair.

 

Those “bad years” for the Phillies were actually loaded with serious HOF talent. But somehow the failures of this team got ignored. Growing up we all heard about the futility of the Cubs and Red Sox with their long WS droughts. And everyone ignored the Phillies - an original team on the Senior Circuit - didn’t win a World Series until 1980.

 

The White Sox - whose title drought started the year before Boston’s and ended the year after - are the other team whose long history of failure largely gets ignored. Including in your analysis. How did you forget that team?

[Old Red]

Why?

 

It doesn’t matter to Henry who buys the tickets. As long as someone does…

 

It wasn’t about if the park is filled, or not, but that Philly fans are outnumbering the Red Sox fans at Fenway. WHY? Philly fans have more to cheer about.

🙈🤭

[notin]

It wasn’t about if the park is filled, or not, but that Philly fans are outnumbering the Red Sox fans at Fenway. WHY? Philly fans have more to cheer about.

 

But that helps Henry maintain his spendthrift ways. He doesn’t care if opposing fans come; in fact, he appears to be counting on it…

[Old Red]

But that helps Henry maintain his spendthrift ways. He doesn’t care if opposing fans come; in fact, he appears to be counting on it…

 

That’s a whole SEPARATE discussion. The MAIN point is Philly fans outnumbering Red Sox fans at Fenway.

[notin]

That’s a whole SEPARATE discussion. The MAIN point is Philly fans outnumbering Red Sox fans at Fenway.

 

Yes, and it’s not good for the Red Sox by any measure. Unless you enjoy watching the team flounder and hope it continues…

[dgalehouse]

If John Henry doesn't care if Phillies fans take over Fenway, then I will dislike him even more than I do now.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

By Houck not starting tonight he will not have a start against the Yankems. I think that sux.

[Maxbialystock]

The discussion was about DD Phillies, which only has to do with 2021 to the present. Still take Boston’s 2022, 2023, and 2024?

 

Phillies are doing well under DD and the Sox have struggled, 2022-24. All true.

 

However, the Sox lost all six ALDS games in 2016 and 2017 with DD in charge--even with the 3d highest payroll. In 2018, with the highest payroll in MLB, they had the best Sox season ever, thanks in part to DD.

 

But in 2019 they didn't even make the postseason with the biggest payroll. Moreover, it was a good bet that, about the time DD was fired, he was asking JH for a bunch more money--over and above the biggest payroll in MLB--to outbid the Dodgers for Mookie and to pay for expensive replacements for Price and Sale (while also paying their hefty salaries).

 

CB wasn't the answer, but I don't think JH knew exactly what kind of a CBO and team he wanted. The two things he was sure of were that Mookie was unaffordable--with which I agree because the Dodgers could afford to pay more--and that he wasn't going to shell out major dollars for starters any more. Too risky. However, Giolito has a $39M contact for 2 years, which is now a $39M for 1 year because he went on the IL in spring training and we have no idea when or whether he will start next season.

 

I think DD overall has an excellent track record as a CBO. But I don't blame DD for getting rid of him after the disaster of the 2019 season--and the even greater demands DD would make on what was already the biggest payroll in MLB. On paper Craig Breslow looks like a very good fit, but right now CBO for John Henry just might the toughest CBO job in MLB.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Kids in the nieghborhood: "Ms O'Neill can Tyler come out and play?"

 

Ms O'Neill: "Now boys, you know how fragile Tyler is. He's gonna stay in his exercise room until I think it's safe for him to go outdoors."

 

Kids: "Well, can we come in and watch him lift weights?"

 

Ms O'Neill: "OK, but please don't disturb his concentration."

Edited June 11, 2024 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

IMHO, Wheeler is one of the 3 best pitchers in MLB. Hopefully. I've just jinxed him for tonight's game.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Phillies are doing well under DD and the Sox have struggled, 2022-24. All true.

 

However, the Sox lost all six ALDS games in 2016 and 2017 with DD in charge--even with the 3d highest payroll. In 2018, with the highest payroll in MLB, they had the best Sox season ever, thanks in part to DD.

 

But in 2019 they didn't even make the postseason with the biggest payroll. Moreover, it was a good bet that, about the time DD was fired, he was asking JH for a bunch more money--over and above the biggest payroll in MLB--to outbid the Dodgers for Mookie and to pay for expensive replacements for Price and Sale (while also paying their hefty salaries).

 

CB wasn't the answer, but I don't think JH knew exactly what kind of a CBO and team he wanted. The two things he was sure of were that Mookie was unaffordable--with which I agree because the Dodgers could afford to pay more--and that he wasn't going to shell out major dollars for starters any more. Too risky. However, Giolito has a $39M contact for 2 years, which is now a $39M for 1 year because he went on the IL in spring training and we have no idea when or whether he will start next season.

 

I think DD overall has an excellent track record as a CBO. But I don't blame DD for getting rid of him after the disaster of the 2019 season--and the even greater demands DD would make on what was already the biggest payroll in MLB. On paper Craig Breslow looks like a very good fit, but right now CBO for John Henry just might the toughest CBO job in MLB.

 

It blows that a player who is out for the season with an injury still gets his full salary. I say put Gio on Workmens Comp.

Same goes for SOS (Same Old Story.)

[Maxbialystock]

The Red Sox have a great history. No doubt. But that makes it more aggravating that they have allowed this to happen. Meanwhile, Phillies fans are having a blast. They are not concerned about what happened years ago.

 

When you say "great history," you seem to mean "ancient history." The Sox best season ever was just 6 years ago--and that was the Sox 4th WS in 14 season after the 86 year drought. And 3 years ago they made it to the ALCS, which is something that DD did with the Sox exactly once in 4 years, and when he did it he had the top payroll in MLB.

 

I admit I'm not too happy with the Sox right now, but I also think JH has earned the right to do whatever he wants with this team.

 

That said, I agree we fans are fickle. What have you done for us lately?

[vegasbob]

Schwarber jumps Kutter on pitch #1. Get ready boys, the heat is on

[Oscars]

Yoshida, the ground out machine, is back at it.

[vegasbob]

Yoshi bounces to out to right side after Devers foul out stranding Hamilton on third. Nothing new. Yoshida's time off didn't change anything about his rolling over

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Yoshida, the ground out machine, is back at it.

 

What? No criticism for Devers, whose RBI total, so far, is nothing to write home about.

[moonslav59]

When you say "great history," you seem to mean "ancient history." The Sox best season ever was just 6 years ago--and that was the Sox 4th WS in 14 season after the 86 year drought. And 3 years ago they made it to the ALCS, which is something that DD did with the Sox exactly once in 4 years, and when he did it he had the top payroll in MLB.

 

I admit I'm not too happy with the Sox right now, but I also think JH has earned the right to do whatever he wants with this team.

 

That said, I agree we fans are fickle. What have you done for us lately?

 

Fickle is probably a better word than "spoiled."

 

I'm not going to say it sucked being a Sox fan for decades before 2004, because I enjoyed being one, despite the many heart-breaking moments, along the way.

 

That ring in 2004 was long-awaited and deeply appreciated. Had we never won, again, JH & Co did more than any other owner group could do for over 8 decades.

 

The fact that we won, three years later, then again 6 more years later was icing on the cake. That 2013 season, after Theo was gone and all that happened to the city of Boston, that year was amazing.

 

All the last place finishes, starting in 2012 surrounded the 2023 ring, the three year run under DD's reign and the nice run in 2021, were hard to stomach, but even if you cherry pick 2012 or 2019 as the beginning of the "downturn," we've had some bright spots peppered in there.

 

2012-2024 (12 years plu part of a 13th)

6 last place finishes

1 third place (currently in 3rd)

1 second place (made it to ALCS)

4 first place (2 rings/2 early exits)

How many MLB teams have 2 rings in the last 12 years?

 

Three teams with 2 Rings:

BOS (13 + 18)

HOU (17-cheated + 22)

SF (12 + 14)

 

6 Teams with 1 ring:

TEX '23

ATL '21

LAD '20 (short season)

WSH '19 (immediate decline)

CHC '16

KCR '15 (pretty bad afterwards)

 

21 teams with ZERO RINGS!

 

2019-2023+ (5 years plus part of 2024)

3 last places

1 3rd place (currently 3rd)

1 second (lost in ALCS)

How many teams have been to the ALCS/NLCS in the last 5 years?

 

12 teams:

5 HOU

2 ATL

2 LAD

2 NYY

2 PHI

BOS

AZ

TEX

SDP

TBR

WSH

STL

 

18 teams have not made it to the league championship series in the last 5 years.

 

This is not meant to show we are doing well, or that I'm happy with these results in the worst, cherry-picked sample sizes I can find.

 

This is not much fun. It was more fun in the most of the 70's, part of the 80's and 90's and all of the years from 2003-2018 than these last 5 years. This is not a good stretch, but 18 teams have not been to the ALCS/NLCS in this stretch, for what that is worth.

 

[moonslav59]

Yoshida, the ground out machine, is back at it.

 

Almost always to 2B.

[moonslav59]

What? No criticism for Devers, whose RBI total, so far, is nothing to write home about.

 

Solo HR pending.

[vegasbob]

Solo HR pending.

 

Raffy flashes some glove and arm showing why he is on the roster, not Cooper

[vegasbob]

Wheeler seems to have warmed up. Sox may regret not scoring Hamilton in the first , with man on 3rd 1 out. Crawford going good so far, after Schwarber's center-center bomb

[vegasbob]

Damnable Dom Smith, total crap play.

[FredLynn]

Difficult team to watch again this year.

But hey-full throttle, right?

And Henry just said he has no intention of selling the team.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Alligator armed Smith. Players are DFA'd for a reason.

[jung]

Alligator armed Smith. Players are DFA'd for a reason.

 

More like feet stuck in the mud Dom. This team is as fundamentally UNSOUND in the field as any MLB team I have ever seen. Even when they are not making recorded fielding errors they are STILL making fielding errors.

[vegasbob]

More like feet stuck in the mud Dom. This team is as fundamentally UNSOUND in the field as any MLB team I have ever seen. Even when they are not making recorded fielding errors they are STILL making fielding errors.

 

There was a reasonable probability that Duran should have caught the liner to LF. Tough catch but he took an odd route to it. Balls to left, move to the left ( right from the fielder's side)

[vegasbob]

I would cut Smith when Casas comes back and keep Red Sox lifer, Bobby Dalbec, just because people like him. Edited June 12, 2024 by vegasbob

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Why can't the SOX get players like KS?