2024 Red Sox Defense

[Maxbialystock]

True. But, as I said on tonight's game thread, the Sox have always favored hitting over fielding. In the four seasons--2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018--when the Sox won the WS they finished 1st, 4th, 1st, and 1st in MLB in total runs scored. In those same four seasons their team ERA's were ranked 11th, 2d, 14th, and 7th. And their fielding percentages (which may not be relevant to their actual defensive skills) were ranked 23d, 4th, 9th, and 9th.

 

The above is a tad misleading. I intended to say simply that the Sox favor hitting, as do most MLB teams.

 

This year's defense is way worse than defenses in the past and in fact is an embarrassment to the team, the fans, and MLB. I am quite sure JH is aware of this aspect.

 

Since Cora is in his last year of his contract, JH might simply fire him. I don't think the defensive malaise is Cora's fault, but managers are hired to be fired.

[moonslav59]

True. But, as I said on tonight's game thread, the Sox have always favored hitting over fielding. In the four seasons--2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018--when the Sox won the WS they finished 1st, 4th, 1st, and 1st in MLB in total runs scored. In those same four seasons their team ERA's were ranked 11th, 2d, 14th, and 7th. And their fielding percentages (which may not be relevant to their actual defensive skills) were ranked 23d, 4th, 9th, and 9th.

 

The thing is, the Sox often finished 1st to 4th in runs scored for decades. The years we won, was when we had decent pitching and or defense, as well. The years we did not, we often had worse pitching and or D, or injuries to pitchers.

 

1967: Lonborg (Stange)

1975: Tiant (Lee)

1986: Clemens (Hurst/Boyd)

2004: Pedro (Schilling)

2007: Beckett (Schilling)

2013: Lester (Lackey)

2018: Sale (Price, Nate, ERod)

 

It's really hard to win with just hitting.

 

 

 

[Randy Red Sox]

The thing is, the Sox often finished 1st to 4th in runs scored for decades. The years we won, was when we had decent pitching and or defense, as well. The years we did not, we often had worse pitching and or D, or injuries to pitchers.

 

1967: Lonborg (Stange)

1975: Tiant (Lee)

1986: Clemens (Hurst/Boyd)

2004: Pedro (Schilling)

2007: Beckett (Schilling)

2013: Lester (Lackey)

2018: Sale (Price, Nate, ERod)

 

It's really hard to win with just hitting.

 

 

 

 

impossible

[moonslav59]

impossible

 

We've never done it, but one could argue the Royals won without it.

[Elktonnick]

Cora complains about defensive lapses but he seems to be at a loss of coaching techniques to correct them. This has been a consistent problem for years.

Johnny Pesky was a great teaching coach for example Cora is not.

[Maxbialystock]

The thing is, the Sox often finished 1st to 4th in runs scored for decades. The years we won, was when we had decent pitching and or defense, as well. The years we did not, we often had worse pitching and or D, or injuries to pitchers.

 

1967: Lonborg (Stange)

1975: Tiant (Lee)

1986: Clemens (Hurst/Boyd)

2004: Pedro (Schilling)

2007: Beckett (Schilling)

2013: Lester (Lackey)

2018: Sale (Price, Nate, ERod)

 

It's really hard to win with just hitting.

 

 

 

 

Of course it's hard if not impossible to win without pitching.

 

On the other hand, can you name a Sox team that won anything, even just the Division or even just the wild card, with good pitching and lousy hitting?

[Bellhorn04]

Cora complains about defensive lapses but he seems to be at a loss of coaching techniques to correct them. This has been a consistent problem for years.

Johnny Pesky was a great teaching coach for example Cora is not.

 

That may be so but guys like Hamilton, Reyes and Valdez just aren't MLB caliber players.

[moonslav59]

Of course it's hard if not impossible to win without pitching.

 

On the other hand, can you name a Sox team that won anything, even just the Division or even just the wild card, with good pitching and lousy hitting?

 

There has never been a Sox team with better pitching than hitting, that I recall. This year may be the first, but the defense might skew the pitching numbers downward.

 

In Sox history, we have lost tons of games and missed the playoffs with some really great hitting teams. We have missed the playoffs with teams that had good pitching, but by and large, when you look at the times we made the playoffs, and especially the years we went to the WS, we always had better pitching than the years we missed out.

 

It's undeniable.

 

I wasn't a Sox fan in '67, but no way they even make the playoffs without Lonborg (Siebert & Stange, too). Same with Tiant (and Lee) in '75. Same with Clemens (Hurst/Boyd) in '86. Pedro and Schilling in '04. Beckett & Schilling in '07. Lester & Lackey in '13. Sale, Price & Nate in '18 (okay, maybe they make the playoffs in '18 missing one of these 3, but they needed 2 to win it all.)

[moonslav59]

[/b]04;1596270]That may be so but guys like Hamilton, Reyes and Valdez just aren't MLB caliber players.

 

I think Reyes is an okay back-up, but being asked to get 400+ PAs is not good.

 

EValdez might end up being a decent ML hitter, but likely never good enough to DH. The man is awful on D.

 

DHam is AAAA all the way.

[wyo-sox]

That may be so but guys like Hamilton, Reyes and Valdez just aren't MLB caliber players.

 

Wish this board had a like button.

[dgalehouse]

Cora complains about defensive lapses but he seems to be at a loss of coaching techniques to correct them. This has been a consistent problem for years.

Johnny Pesky was a great teaching coach for example Cora is not.

 

It seems like infield practice is a relic of a bygone era.

[dgalehouse]

Of course it's hard if not impossible to win without pitching.

 

On the other hand, can you name a Sox team that won anything, even just the Division or even just the wild card, with good pitching and lousy hitting?

 

Pitching, hitting, defense and base running are all a part of the game. The object is simply to score more runs than the opponent any way you can. If you have all four of those parts working well, you have a very good team. When none of them are working , you have a big problem.

[moonslav59]

Pitching, hitting, defense and base running are all a part of the game. The object is simply to score more runs than the opponent any way you can. If you have all four of those parts working well, you have a very good team. When none of them are working , you have a big problem.

 

Yes! If only one is working, it’s not good, either. Right now, only our pitching is plus.

[notin]

That may be so but guys like Hamilton, Reyes and Valdez just aren't MLB caliber players.

 

Hamilton doesn’t look like one. Valdez gives you moments when you think he is. But those moments only come with his bat. I’d argue Reyes is an MLB caliber bench player…

[moonslav59]

Hamilton doesn’t look like one. Valdez gives you moments when you think he is. But those moments only come with his bat. I’d argue Reyes is an MLB caliber bench player…

 

I'm fine with Reyes for utility, but when you know your SS is out for 5+ months, you should not count on him to be a FT'er. You use him until you find help from somewhere else, and he goes back to back-up.

 

I can understand not trading a good prospect for a decent SS during a punt season, we should be able to find a plus glove SS who does not hit sub .650 at a decent price.

 

[Elktonnick]

It seems like infield practice is a relic of a bygone era.

There are those who complain the RedSox are doing a terrible job at teaching good fundamentals in the Minor leagues.

[notin]

I'm fine with Reyes for utility, but when you know your SS is out for 5+ months, you should not count on him to be a FT'er. You use him until you find help from somewhere else, and he goes back to back-up.

 

I can understand not trading a good prospect for a decent SS during a punt season, we should be able to find a plus glove SS who does not hit sub .650 at a decent price.

 

 

It’s not always so easy in April, when other teams are not selling and therefore not always so willing to move their shortstop insurance…

[notin]

There are those who complain the RedSox are doing a terrible job at teaching good fundamentals in the Minor leagues.

 

Just because someone isn’t learning doesn’t mean no one is teaching…

[moonslav59]

It’s not always so easy in April, when other teams are not selling and therefore not always so willing to move their shortstop insurance…

 

There are back-up SSs and unsigned SSs that should be better than DHam/Reyes.

[Elktonnick]

Those who criticized say it is a teaching disability not a learning disability

[notin]

There are back-up SSs and unsigned SSs that should be better than DHam/Reyes.

 

I threw the name Elvis Andrus out there. Second year in a row...

[moonslav59]

I threw the name Elvis Andrus out there. Second year in a row...

 

Yes, he is one.

[Maxbialystock]

Those who criticized say it is a teaching disability not a learning disability

 

You think so? Casas is 24 years old. If he played Little League--and he almost certainly has--he has been playing baseball pretty seriously for at least 12 years and professionally for about 6 years (since 2018). Why are you laying his weak fielding on the Sox staff?

[mvp 78]

It seems like infield practice is a relic of a bygone era.

 

These guys practice, we’ve just known they are flawed players for a long time.

[mvp 78]

Those who criticized say it is a teaching disability not a learning disability

 

It may be a physical ability issue.

[Elktonnick]

You think so? Casas is 24 years old. If he played Little League--and he almost certainly has--he has been playing baseball pretty seriously for at least 12 years and professionally for about 6 years (since 2018). Why are you laying his weak fielding on the Sox staff?

Because it is consistent throughout the organization. They have been rushing guys to the bigs before they are.ready.. Moreover for sometime the Red Sox strength and conditioning program is out of wack Too many injuries.

[Elktonnick]

It may be a physical ability issue.

Whatever it is the minor league system is underperforming. Too many guys reach the bigs unprepared.

[moonslav59]

Whatever it is the minor league system is underperforming. Too many guys reach the bigs unprepared.

 

Not something all that new.

[Elktonnick]

Not something all that new.

I know and that's what pisses me off

[Maxbialystock]

Those who criticized say it is a teaching disability not a learning disability

 

Teaching disability?????? Are you seriously saying that all minor leaguers--and major leaguers--should be equal in ability simply because they are taught correctly?

 

It's true that Ted Williams was a great student of hitting, but he also was a terrific hitter before he was 20.