2024 Red Sox Defense

[mvp 78]

So far, the Sox have been much better than they were last year. In 2023, they were just pathetic; ranked 30th in the league with -50 OAA. With Story going down, the defense is going to take a little bit of a hit again and Devers too since Devers relies on a strong SS to help his deficiencies. Sox clearly punted on 2B. Casas has been Casas. He can be better and really needs to be if he wants to get PAID. The Catching is what it is and McGuire seems much more healthy than he was last year when his defense slid a bit. No complaints about the OF rotation of Rafaela/O'Neilll/Duran/Abreu.

 

@redsoxstats

Duran in the first Red Sox player to qualify for the Outfielder Jump Leaderboard, and he's initially ranked 7th of 35 qualified.

14th/35 Reaction

3rd/35 Burst

10th/35 Route

[moonslav59]

Maybe by the end of 2025

 

(Trade Yoshida)

 

C: Teel, Wong

1B: Devers (Casas)

DH: Casas (Devers)

2B: Grissom (Story)

SS: Story, Mayer

3B: ______

LF: Duran

CF: Rafaela (Anthony)

RF: Anthony, Abreu

 

That could be a decent defensive team.

[Duran Is The Man]

Maybe by the end of 2025

 

(Trade Yoshida)

 

C: Teel, Wong

1B: Devers (Casas)

DH: Casas (Devers)

2B: Grissom (Story)

SS: Story, Mayer

3B: ______

LF: Duran

CF: Rafaela (Anthony)

RF: Anthony, Abreu

 

That could be a decent defensive team.

 

i would love to see this. Yoshida is another giant dud from Bloom. too bad they didn't unload him and sign Chapman like notin suggested earlier.

[mvp 78]

Maybe by the end of 2025

 

(Trade Yoshida)

 

C: Teel, Wong

1B: Devers (Casas)

DH: Casas (Devers)

2B: Grissom (Story)

SS: Story, Mayer

3B: ______

LF: Duran

CF: Rafaela (Anthony)

RF: Anthony, Abreu

 

That could be a decent defensive team.

 

In this situation, just move Mayer to 3B? Also, there's no confirmation that Grissom is a starter. Maybe Mayer is the 2B?

[Maxbialystock]

I certainly thought our defense had improved this year--and said so, mostly because the pitching has been spectacularly good, the best in MLB after just 10 games.

 

But guess what? 9 of the 22 runs scored against the Sox were unearned. That to me bespeaks lousy defense--and the fact that Story played excellent defense at SS could not prevent the bungles by the likes of Rafaela, Abreu, Reyes, Casas, Devers, and Valdez.

 

Of those errors, to me the most forgivable one was by Devers, who had to deal with one of those in between high-hoppers, which he tried to grab while going backwards.

 

Rafaela's error was on a dead easy fly he decided to go casual on. Same goes for Abreu on an easy grounder single he let get through his legs. Same for Casas--of course Casas--on another easy grounder. Same for Valdez on a throw to 2b, which he dropped.

 

Also, let's not forget that, while I think we can all agree Trevor Story is superb on defense, at 2b or SS, he can't stay healthy. I hasten to add he's getting paid $22M/year primarily for hitting, which he has yet to do.

 

Speaking of hitting, I don't see a whole lot of them in next year's hypothetical all-defensive team. I think I see 3: Devers, Casas, and Duran--and the latter two are probables, not certainties.

[moonslav59]

In this situation, just move Mayer to 3B? Also, there's no confirmation that Grissom is a starter. Maybe Mayer is the 2B?

 

True, but if I had to guess who is more likely to be a MLB starter in 2025, I'd go with Grissom over Mayer.

 

Mayer at 3B could work, too.

[moonslav59]

I certainly thought our defense had improved this year--and said so, mostly because the pitching has been spectacularly good, the best in MLB after just 10 games.

 

But guess what? 9 of the 22 runs scored against the Sox were unearned. That to me bespeaks lousy defense--and the fact that Story played excellent defense at SS could not prevent the bungles by the likes of Rafaela, Abreu, Reyes, Casas, Devers, and Valdez.

 

Of those errors, to me the most forgivable one was by Devers, who had to deal with one of those in between high-hoppers, which he tried to grab while going backwards.

 

Rafaela's error was on a dead easy fly he decided to go casual on. Same goes for Abreu on an easy grounder single he let get through his legs. Same for Casas--of course Casas--on another easy grounder. Same for Valdez on a throw to 2b, which he dropped.

 

Also, let's not forget that, while I think we can all agree Trevor Story is superb on defense, at 2b or SS, he can't stay healthy. I hasten to add he's getting paid $22M/year primarily for hitting, which he has yet to do.

 

Speaking of hitting, I don't see a whole lot of them in next year's hypothetical all-defensive team. I think I see 3: Devers, Casas, and Duran--and the latter two are probables, not certainties.

 

We've also seen some no error plays, especially missed DPs.

 

With Story out, my guess of finishing around 16th from 30th might need to be adjusted to 20th to 24th.

[mvp 78]

True, but if I had to guess who is more likely to be a MLB starter in 2025, I'd go with Grissom over Mayer.

 

Mayer at 3B could work, too.

 

More likely? Both come with injury issues at the moment. Mayer has the higher ceiling. Grissom is closer. Hard to really say.

[Maxbialystock]

We've also seen some no error plays, especially missed DPs.

 

With Story out, my guess of finishing around 16th from 30th might need to be adjusted to 20th to 24th.

 

Right now I do like Rafaela, Duran, and O'Neill in the OF. I also like Wong and McGuire behind the plate.

 

The problems are in the infield, which right now does not have one good glove.

[moonslav59]

Right now I do like Rafaela, Duran, and O'Neill in the OF. I also like Wong and McGuire behind the plate.

 

The problems are in the infield, which right now does not have one good glove.

 

We don't even have one near average infielder on D.

[moonslav59]

Outs Above Average has us ranked tied for 21st at -2. That's 10 better than Miami.

 

Last year, we were 30th at -50, which was 13 worse than CIN, 20 worse than MIA and an amazing 30 worse than #27 LAA!

 

+1 Rafaela, Duran & Story

0 Abreu & Casas

-1 Devers, O'Neill, Valdez

-2 Reyes

 

DRS: Sox place 16th at zero.

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2024 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Don't worry, Bailey is working on more strikeout pitches right now. Just push the moon in front of the sun and batters won't even make contact.

[Hugh2]

We don't even have one near average infielder on D.

 

Valdez looks better this year, I think Casas is going to be fine, and Devers has had seasons were he's rounded out to being average. Having a good SS changes a lot, which is why I'm a big proponent of moving Rafaela there. Rafaela playing SS was already part of their plan, now they're only increasing by a few games a week.

[moonslav59]

Valdez looks better this year, I think Casas is going to be fine, and Devers has had seasons were he's rounded out to being average. Having a good SS changes a lot, which is why I'm a big proponent of moving Rafaela there. Rafaela playing SS was already part of their plan, now they're only increasing by a few games a week.

 

Rafaela is not great on D at SS. He's okay and maybe a plus.

 

What we lose in CF might not offset the gain we get at SS. I realize SS make or misses more plays than CF, so you might be right.

[Hugh2]

Rafaela is not great on D at SS. He's okay and maybe a plus.

 

What we lose in CF might not offset the gain we get at SS. I realize SS make or misses more plays than CF, so you might be right.

 

The drop off in CF to Duran is not as bad as the drop off at SS to Hamilton/others.

 

Also I think it's a mischaraterization to say "not great" he's defense has been characterized many times as plus at SS. He grew up playing SS, and continued playing it 1-2 times week while he's been in the minors in the Sox system.

 

Sox may very well roll the dice with Hamilton at SS, but Rafaela is their best option there right now and IMO it's not even close.

[Maxbialystock]

Outs Above Average has us ranked tied for 21st at -2. That's 10 better than Miami.

 

Last year, we were 30th at -50, which was 13 worse than CIN, 20 worse than MIA and an amazing 30 worse than #27 LAA!

 

+1 Rafaela, Duran & Story

0 Abreu & Casas

-1 Devers, O'Neill, Valdez

-2 Reyes

 

DRS: Sox place 16th at zero.

 

 

 

 

Good. Despite my constant griping--what else is new?--the defense is better this year and that has to be encouraging to the pitchers.

 

Right now, I'm fine with Devers at 3b, where he's been for several seasons, and Casas at 1b. Casas's reach comes in handy on those throws to first, and I guess we'll just have to live with his lousy work on grounders. If memory serves, his throws to 2b have been good.

 

So the problem is in the middle infield and here's my thought. Go for the D. If, for example, Mayer is ready on D, bring him up (after he's played some games in the minors this year). Same goes for anyone else who really is good with the glove and the arm.

 

And live with two lousy hitters because the other 7--Devers, Casas, O'Neill, Duran, Wong/McGuire, Rafaela, and Yoshida--just might be enough. Indeed, Alex Cora has even used McGuire as a DH, which worked pretty well.

[Maxbialystock]

The drop off in CF to Duran is not as bad as the drop off at SS to Hamilton/others.

 

Also I think it's a mischaraterization to say "not great" he's defense has been characterized many times as plus at SS. He grew up playing SS, and continued playing it 1-2 times week while he's been in the minors in the Sox system.

 

Sox may very well roll the dice with Hamilton at SS, but Rafaela is their best option there right now and IMO it's not even close.

 

Hamilton had 2 hits yesterday. He gets at least one more game, maybe two. After that, I would prefer to find a good defensive infielder in the minors or elsewhere, regardless of his bat.

 

Because I like an outfield of Duran, Rafaela, and O'Neill. Rafaela infuriated me with that dropped easy fly that led to 4 unearned runs, but he has also made some excellent plays.

[Hugh2]

Hamilton had 2 hits yesterday. He gets at least one more game, maybe two. After that, I would prefer to find a good defensive infielder in the minors or elsewhere, regardless of his bat.

 

Because I like an outfield of Duran, Rafaela, and O'Neill. Rafaela infuriated me with that dropped easy fly that led to 4 unearned runs, but he has also made some excellent plays.

 

There's no SS in the minors who is close to MLB ready, and is this team really worth investing big time assets in? especially at SS when Mayer is on the way. Finding another outfielder on the 40 man is 100X easier than finding another SS right now.

 

 

The Sox planned on using Rafaela about once a week at SS anways, why not just stick to the plan but play him a few extra games there.

[Maxbialystock]

Valdez looks better this year, I think Casas is going to be fine, and Devers has had seasons were he's rounded out to being average. Having a good SS changes a lot, which is why I'm a big proponent of moving Rafaela there. Rafaela playing SS was already part of their plan, now they're only increasing by a few games a week.

 

Go read Sox Prospects, which says Rafaela can be an elite centerfielder. Plus we've seen him do just that this season--that dropped pop fly notwithstanding. Yes, he played in field in 2018 and 2019, but has been primarily outfield in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024.

 

Does the name Kike Hernandez ring a bell? You guys all wanted to hang him, draw and quarter him, and send him to his room without dinner--what year was that? And what caused the uproar?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm with Max here re. shortstop. Don't mess with the improved outfield, or weaken other positions.

 

Find a defensive specialist for SS, but not another utility Pablo -- someone instead with a consistent, above-average glove and arm. They're out there, and not break-the-bank expensive.

 

Shake the baseball tree, Brez...

[Maxbialystock]

I'm with Max here re. shortstop. Don't mess with the improved outfield, or weaken other positions.

 

Find a defensive specialist for SS, but not another utility Pablo -- someone instead with a consistent, above-average glove and arm. They're out there, and not break-the-bank expensive.

 

Shake the baseball tree, Brez...

 

Be careful. Most of the time I don't even agree with me. If we kept track of recantations, I would be the leader in the clubhouse.

[Hugh2]

Go read Sox Prospects, which says Rafaela can be an elite centerfielder. Plus we've seen him do just that this season--that dropped pop fly notwithstanding. Yes, he played in field in 2018 and 2019, but has been primarily outfield in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024.

 

Does the name Kike Hernandez ring a bell? You guys all wanted to hang him, draw and quarter him, and send him to his room without dinner--what year was that? And what caused the uproar?

 

Ok, I will also go listen to their last podcast in which they advocate Rafaela at SS as their best option.

 

http://news.soxprospects.com/2024/04/podcast-ep-311-neverending-scary-story.html

 

I would prefer Rafaela in CF, but right now, the team might be best with him at SS.

 

EDIT. I don't advocate the move permanent, and I still think he should start 1-2 games a week in CF and have Pablo/Hamilton play SS.

[Maxbialystock]

So far, the Sox have been much better than they were last year. In 2023, they were just pathetic; ranked 30th in the league with -50 OAA. With Story going down, the defense is going to take a little bit of a hit again and Devers too since Devers relies on a strong SS to help his deficiencies. Sox clearly punted on 2B. Casas has been Casas. He can be better and really needs to be if he wants to get PAID. The Catching is what it is and McGuire seems much more healthy than he was last year when his defense slid a bit. No complaints about the OF rotation of Rafaela/O'Neilll/Duran/Abreu.

 

@redsoxstats

Duran in the first Red Sox player to qualify for the Outfielder Jump Leaderboard, and he's initially ranked 7th of 35 qualified.

14th/35 Reaction

3rd/35 Burst

10th/35 Route

 

Good OP. Timely. Good discussion.

[moonslav59]

Good. Despite my constant griping--what else is new?--the defense is better this year and that has to be encouraging to the pitchers.

 

Right now, I'm fine with Devers at 3b, where he's been for several seasons, and Casas at 1b. Casas's reach comes in handy on those throws to first, and I guess we'll just have to live with his lousy work on grounders. If memory serves, his throws to 2b have been good.

 

So the problem is in the middle infield and here's my thought. Go for the D. If, for example, Mayer is ready on D, bring him up (after he's played some games in the minors this year). Same goes for anyone else who really is good with the glove and the arm.

 

And live with two lousy hitters because the other 7--Devers, Casas, O'Neill, Duran, Wong/McGuire, Rafaela, and Yoshida--just might be enough. Indeed, Alex Cora has even used McGuire as a DH, which worked pretty well.

 

The griping is less than last April, when Kike was a one man horror show with a pretty decent bunch of sideshows.

 

Winning 7 of 10 helped lessen the roar, for sure, but 2 of our 3 losses was significantly about poor defense.

 

As I've pointed out before, many bad defensive plays are not called errors and won't lead to unearned runs, but they can and do lead to losses, sometimes. Of course, each loss 9and win) is a group effort. I dislike saying a loss is 100% because of one play, one player or one area of the game.

 

Here is an interesting stat:

 

UnERs ERs

10/55 MIA

10/50 LAD

9/15 BOS

8/52 SDP

6/70 COL

 

The Nats have zero unearned runs (49 ERs)

[Maxbialystock]

There's no SS in the minors who is close to MLB ready, and is this team really worth investing big time assets in? especially at SS when Mayer is on the way. Finding another outfielder on the 40 man is 100X easier than finding another SS right now.

 

 

The Sox planned on using Rafaela about once a week at SS anways, why not just stick to the plan but play him a few extra games there.

 

See my other post on Sox Prospects take on Rafaela. He's much, much better in CF than at SS. Plus don't forget what happened when Kike was moved to SS. We absolutely, positively know Rafaela can plays centerfield because we've freaking seen him do it.

 

And, by the way, what is your definition of someone in the minors who is ready? If you are talking about a bat, it's always a gamble because MLB pitching is so, so tough. But, if its a glove and an arm, what's great in Worcester or even Portland is probably going to be pretty good in Boston.

 

Assuming Hamilton is temporary, keep him around until Mayer has some games and shows the good defense ("very fluid actions, soft hands, solid footwork, plenty of range, confident defender, plus defender at SS"), then give him a shot.

[moonslav59]

Our in house SS options are Reyes

DHam

Rafaela

 

We'd have to add a SS from outside the system to have another choice. I'm not against the idea, but who is out there?

 

DHam had 2 HRs with WOO and one here. Maybe we ride his horse until he proves he can or cannot fill the role.

 

Has the timeline on Story been confirmed?

[notin]

I'm with Max here re. shortstop. Don't mess with the improved outfield, or weaken other positions.

 

Find a defensive specialist for SS, but not another utility Pablo -- someone instead with a consistent, above-average glove and arm. They're out there, and not break-the-bank expensive.

 

Shake the baseball tree, Brez...

 

Andrelton Simmons is still unemployed...

[moonslav59]

Andrelton Simmons is still unemployed...

 

How much has his D slipped?

[mvp 78]

How much has his D slipped?

 

You can check FanGraphs too.

[notin]

How much has his D slipped?

 

To “Still Better Than Hamilton” levels…