Red Sox 2024 Spring Training

[mvp 78]

@IanMBrowne

Jarren Duran has gone blonde. That is the big news so far this morning.

 

Always getting to the important news. Asking follow up questions like "why did Mookie say no 300M offer was made" aren't allowed.

[notin]

@IanMBrowne

Jarren Duran has gone blonde. That is the big news so far this morning.

 

Always getting to the important news. Asking follow up questions like "why did Mookie say no 300M offer was made" aren't allowed.

 

 

Boston sports journalists use Lawyer Logic - never ask a question you don’t know the answer to. Since they don’t the answer to that question, they never asked it…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

vasectomy

vivisection

vegetative

 

There is a vas deferens between the first 15 years of current bonership than the last five...

[moonslav59]

There is a vas deferens between the first 15 years of current bonership than the last five...

 

It's funny how our highest payroll ever was in the last 5 seasons (2019.) Also, our 3rd, 4th and 5th highest, ever.

 

If you adjust for inflation, 2016 might sneak into the top 5.

 

JH has kept spending.

 

His CBO's did not spend wisely.

 

Other teams raised spending my huge amounts.

 

To me, this winter and the one before 2020 are the only two egregious underspending seasons in the last 5.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's funny how our highest payroll ever was in the last 5 seasons (2019.) Also, our 3rd, 4th and 5th highest, ever.

 

If you adjust for inflation, 2016 might sneak into the top 5.

 

JH has kept spending.

 

His CBO's did not spend wisely.

 

Other teams raised spending my huge amounts.

 

To me, this winter and the one before 2020 are the only two egregious underspending seasons in the last 5.

 

 

Ever since I joined this forum, posters have stressed annual budgets. And I have ignored them, mainly because a lot of the totals every year reflect contracts proffered by former CBOs signed by players either retired, useless because of injury, or on other teams that were subsidized by Boston to take them.

 

As a fan, when it comes to my club spending, I'm only concerned each year about who the CBO signs or extends in that particular year. Some might call that impractical, while others might say worrying about the future is even more impractical.

 

And I totally agree with you that Henry's CBO the past five years did not spend wisely -- underspending on needs, overspending on busts, and just spending time doing anything but using valuable trade resources to improve the Red Sox.

[notin]

It's funny how our highest payroll ever was in the last 5 seasons (2019.) Also, our 3rd, 4th and 5th highest, ever.

 

If you adjust for inflation, 2016 might sneak into the top 5.

 

JH has kept spending.

 

His CBO's did not spend wisely.

 

Other teams raised spending my huge amounts.

 

To me, this winter and the one before 2020 are the only two egregious underspending seasons in the last 5.

 

 

 

But they are better (by their goal) set up going forward.

 

Right now the Sox have only 4 players under contract for 2025, and only 7 arbitration-eligible players, four of whom (McGuire, Dalbec, Reyes, Heineman) are non-tender candidates.

 

Now if Story stays healthy and Yoshida bounces back to his July/early August numbers, the contracts the Sox do have remaining might not be so bad…

[moonslav59]

Ever since I joined this forum, posters have stressed annual budgets. And I have ignored them, mainly because a lot of the totals every year reflect contracts proffered by former CBOs signed by players either retired, useless because of injury, or on other teams that were subsidized by Boston to take them.

 

As a fan, when it comes to my club spending, I'm only concerned each year about who the CBO signs or extends in that particular year. Some might call that impractical, while others might say worrying about the future is even more impractical.

 

And I totally agree with you that Henry's CBO the past five years did not spend wisely -- underspending on needs, overspending on busts, and just spending time doing anything but using valuable trade resources to improve the Red Sox.

 

I totally agree, and the record breaking 2019 budget did not reflect the loss and no replacement of Kimbrell & Kelly.

 

Certainly, mistakes have been made throughout our whole system. No one person is to blame, despite our societal need to do just that.

[mvp 78]

It's funny how our highest payroll ever was in the last 5 seasons (2019.) Also, our 3rd, 4th and 5th highest, ever.

 

If you adjust for inflation, 2016 might sneak into the top 5.

 

Yeah, Sox spending more on the 2023 team than the 2004 proves they care more than they ever did before!!!!!!

 

Seriously, the Sox being the 2nd highest payroll in '04 was MEANINGLESS. It was more important that they were the 13th highest payroll in '23!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You can't complain they aren't spending!!!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

Unless this team comes out of the gate hot, the fans will lose interest in this team by Memorial Day.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, Sox spending more on the 2023 team than the 2004 proves they care more than they ever did before!!!!!!

 

Seriously, the Sox being the 2nd highest payroll in '04 was MEANINGLESS. It was more important that they were the 13th highest payroll in '23!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You can't complain they aren't spending!!!!!!!!

 

I disagree with your point, but feel free to believe what you want.

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree with your point, but feel free to believe what you want.

 

The Red Sox being middle of the pack in payroll is unprecedented under Henry, and now it's going to be 2 years in a row.

 

Whether it can be attributed to being smart and sticking to a plan, or to being cheap and more interested in the bottom line than the standings, is a matter of opinion.

[Dipre]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Payroll ain't the real problem here.

[mvp 78]

I disagree with your point, but feel free to believe what you want.

 

You disagree with all my points. That's nothing new.

[Bellhorn04]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Payroll ain't the real problem here.

 

There can be more than one problem.

 

Payroll issues sure seem to have a lot to do with the failure to acquire a decent starting pitcher or two.

[mvp 78]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Payroll ain't the real problem here.

 

The real problem(s):

 

(a) they took away the trough urinals

( they took away the coke bottles above the monster

© the ketchup is bad now

(d) none of the above

(e) all of the above

(f) a and b

(g) a and c

(h) b and c

[notin]

The Red Sox being middle of the pack in payroll is unprecedented under Henry, and now it's going to be 2 years in a row.

 

Whether it can be attributed to being smart and sticking to a plan, or to being cheap and more interested in the bottom line than the standings, is a matter of opinion.

 

Plan?

 

If the plan was to rebuild under Bloom, why was he fired? Because he couldn't compete while rebuilding?

 

AS much as he handled the midseason stuff poorly, Bloom was good at kickstarting the rebuilding process. If that was the priority all along, they should have stayed the course.

 

I think the problem is, Henry wants the Sox to be the Rays. But only the Rays of the last 5 years and not the Rays from the previous five that made the past five possible. It's like he wants to build a great penthouse, but not waste money on some dingy, dirty foundation for the building...

[notin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Payroll ain't the real problem here.

 

It may not be the problem. but it could be the solution...

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox being middle of the pack in payroll is unprecedented under Henry, and now it's going to be 2 years in a row.

 

Whether it can be attributed to being smart and sticking to a plan, or to being cheap and more interested in the bottom line than the standings, is a matter of opinion.

 

I'm not arguing against this point.

 

I responded to the "5 year" statement, by pointing out that our highest payroll,e ver was within those 5 years. Two other years were in our top 5- top 7 or 8 when adjusting for inflation. That leaves the last two years- not the last 5.

 

I also pointed out that part of the reason we dropped in the payroll rankings was due to sharp increases in spending by several other teams.

 

It's not the only reason. Surely, I know JH has reigned in spending. 2020 was a major pull back. 2023 was basically standing pat, as he just about replaced the salary he lost, but other jumped over us.

 

This winter is another major pull back, which is his second in 4 years. Together, those two years are a major reason we dropped to the middle of the pack. Other teams spending way more than before is also a major reason. These two points are not contradtictory or apologetic.

[moonslav59]

There can be more than one problem.

 

Payroll issues sure seem to have a lot to do with the failure to acquire a decent starting pitcher or two.

 

One problem is spending a larger percentage of winter funds on everyday players (and the pen for 2023) over the rotation.

 

In earlier years, we spent way more on the rotation:

Lackey

Price

Sale extension

Nate re-sign

 

Not only that, the money we did spend on SP'ers were largely failures:

Perez

Richards

Perez II

Kluber

Only Wacha and Hill worked out okay to well.

 

JH is part of the problem, for sure, but our CBO priorities changed and they swung and missed more than previous ones- on the rotation additions.

[mvp 78]

Plan?

 

If the plan was to rebuild under Bloom, why was he fired? Because he couldn't compete while rebuilding?

 

AS much as he handled the midseason stuff poorly, Bloom was good at kickstarting the rebuilding process. If that was the priority all along, they should have stayed the course.

 

I think the problem is, Henry wants the Sox to be the Rays. But only the Rays of the last 5 years and not the Rays from the previous five that made the past five possible. It's like he wants to build a great penthouse, but not waste money on some dingy, dirty foundation for the building...

 

Because Bloom wasted a bunch of money while not competing in '22 and '23. If Bloom had actively shopped his players and gotten under the CBT in '22, he'd probably still be here.

[mvp 78]

I'm not arguing against this point.

 

I responded to the "5 year" statement, by pointing out that our highest payroll,e ver was within those 5 years. Two other years were in our top 5- top 7 or 8 when adjusting for inflation. That leaves the last two years- not the last 5.

 

I also pointed out that part of the reason we dropped in the payroll rankings was due to sharp increases in spending by several other teams.

 

It's not the only reason. Surely, I know JH has reigned in spending. 2020 was a major pull back. 2023 was basically standing pat, as he just about replaced the salary he lost, but other jumped over us.

 

This winter is another major pull back, which is his second in 4 years. Together, those two years are a major reason we dropped to the middle of the pack. Other teams spending way more than before is also a major reason. These two points are not contradtictory or apologetic.

 

Average ticket price in 2006: 46.50

Average ticket price in 2023: 63.00 (35% increase)

 

Payroll increased 45% over the same time period. It looks like Henry is taking on more cost and less revenue! However, the Red Sox only got about 25M from national tv back in '06, that number was up to about 100M in '23.

[moonslav59]

Because Bloom wasted a bunch of money while not competing in '22 and '23. If Bloom had actively shopped his players and gotten under the CBT in '22, he'd probably still be here.

 

Bingo!

[Bellhorn04]

I also pointed out that part of the reason we dropped in the payroll rankings was due to sharp increases in spending by several other teams.

 

It's not the only reason. Surely, I know JH has reigned in spending. 2020 was a major pull back. 2023 was basically standing pat, as he just about replaced the salary he lost, but other jumped over us.

 

This winter is another major pull back, which is his second in 4 years. Together, those two years are a major reason we dropped to the middle of the pack. Other teams spending way more than before is also a major reason. These two points are not contradtictory or apologetic.

 

And it's kind of important to evaluate exactly why the other teams are spending more compared to us now.

[mvp 78]

And it's kind of important to evaluate exactly why the other teams are spending more compared to us now.

 

Dumb owners who don't know how to manage their money!

[notin]

Because Bloom wasted a bunch of money while not competing in '22 and '23. If Bloom had actively shopped his players and gotten under the CBT in '22, he'd probably still be here.

 

That depends on why he was fired, but it is a possibility.

 

But again, if the primarily goal was a cost-saving rebuild, is that one error worthy of firing him and starting over under someone new? Teams can survive losing a high draft pick...

[mvp 78]

@SmittyOnMLB

Red Sox’ Kenley Jansen has lat soreness, sidelined from throwing for now

[mvp 78]

That depends on why he was fired, but it is a possibility.

 

But again, if the primarily goal was a cost-saving rebuild, is that one error worthy of firing him and starting over under someone new? Teams can survive losing a high draft pick...

 

Going over the CBT and causing the QO comps to get f***ed HURTS the rebuild at the expense of the MLB team.

[notin]

Going over the CBT and causing the QO comps to get f***ed HURTS the rebuild at the expense of the MLB team.

 

Not arguing that point. But no rebuild goes perfectly. The Astros, for example, chose Mark Appel and Brady Aiken with back to back number one overall selections, and that clearly did not help their rebuilding process.

 

The bottom line is Bloom made a lot of positive steps with is rebuild. Was it worth firing him and starting over for that one misstep? Was this supposed to be a Zero Tolerance Rebuild?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One problem is spending a larger percentage of winter funds on everyday players (and the pen for 2023) over the rotation.

 

In earlier years, we spent way more on the rotation:

Lackey

Price

Sale extension

Nate re-sign

 

Not only that, the money we did spend on SP'ers were largely failures:

Perez

Richards

Perez II

Kluber

Only Wacha and Hill worked out okay to well.

 

JH is part of the problem, for sure, but our CBO priorities changed and they swung and missed more than previous ones- on the rotation additions.

 

In a somewhat related tangent to these lists: it's no coincidence that the Red Sox contended and even won titles with the first group, who were all high performing starting pitchers at the time of acquisition (counting the expenditure of top prospects traded for Sale).

 

The second group were all either mediocre and/or rehabbing bounceback candidates... and we got what we paid for.

[mvp 78]

Not arguing that point. But no rebuild goes perfectly. The Astros, for example, chose Mark Appel and Brady Aiken with back to back number one overall selections, and that clearly did not help their rebuilding process.

 

The bottom line is Bloom made a lot of positive steps with is rebuild. Was it worth firing him and starting over for that one misstep? Was this supposed to be a Zero Tolerance Rebuild?

 

Starting over? They didn't do a complete tear down of the system. They just swapped Bloom for Crag. Crag then came in and is going to add to the pitching development.

 

The positive steps with Bloom were: hoarding draft picks and..... What else did he actually do? So far, the 2020 draft hasn't panned out. The 2021 draft relies heavily on Mayer who struggled last season, while others drafted near him have done great (Jordan Lawlar). If Roman Anthony isn't an everyday player, the 2022 draft is a complete miss.