Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[dgalehouse]

There are hundreds of different stats out there , with new ones being invented all the time. In the end , the stat that matters is wins and losses. Some of your pitchers better have good records or you are in trouble. I think it is reasonable to expect your top starters to win games. Look back at who are considered the great pitchers in history. They usually have good win/loss records. You can argue this, that and the other , but I don't see how you can say it is meaningless. As I said before , if the ERA is out of whack with the win/loss record , you should take another look because the win/loss could be a fluke. But to just discount the record makes no sense. Why do teams want their best pitchers in the big games ? Because they want to win.

[moonslav59]

There are hundreds of different stats out there , with new ones being invented all the time. In the end , the stat that matters is wins and losses. Some of your pitchers better have good records or you are in trouble. I think it is reasonable to expect your top starters to win games. Look back at who are considered the great pitchers in history. They usually have good win/loss records. You can argue this, that and the other , but I don't see how you can say it is meaningless. As I said before , if the ERA is out of whack with the win/loss record , you should take another look because the win/loss could be a fluke. But to just discount the record makes no sense. Why do teams want their best pitchers in the big games ? Because they want to win.

 

A pitcher can pitch great, his team wins and he gets a no decision.

A pitcher can pitch like crap and get the win.

 

I don’t think GMs are happy with their starter, if he lets up7 runs, but the he gets the win.

I think a GM is happy with SPers who keep them in as many games as possible by allowing fewer runs than the norm- win or lose.

 

Sure, he wants his team to win, but I doubt he keeps a 7.00 ERA pitcher around because he goes 17-9 over a season.

[Old Red]

There are hundreds of different stats out there , with new ones being invented all the time. In the end , the stat that matters is wins and losses. Some of your pitchers better have good records or you are in trouble. I think it is reasonable to expect your top starters to win games. Look back at who are considered the great pitchers in history. They usually have good win/loss records. You can argue this, that and the other , but I don't see how you can say it is meaningless. As I said before , if the ERA is out of whack with the win/loss record , you should take another look because the win/loss could be a fluke. But to just discount the record makes no sense. Why do teams want their best pitchers in the big games ? Because they want to win.

 

Very well said. Some just want to see it their way, and any other way has to be wrong. I have said that I don’t see W-L record as everything, and I look at other stats as well, and just, because one pitcher has a better record than another doesn’t mean he’s a better pitcher. I have said I understand their way of looking at statistics, and coming to a different conclusion than me, but that we just disagree. On the other side of the equation it’s their way is the only way that’s right. One disagreed with Sean McAdams, because McAdams didn’t agree with him that Monty was a solid #2 starter, so of course his conclusions was McAdams didn’t know what he’s talking about. Another didn’t like a FA ranking, because it didn’t meet his standards, so of course it had to be the ranking had to be ridiculous. Everyone can have their own opinion, and if someone has another opinion it doesn’t mean they’re wrong. So when some think they have everything figured out, and has the right answers it may be that way for them, but not for everyone, and that seems to be a hard pill to swallow.

[Bellhorn04]

Very well said. Some just want to see it their way, and any other way has to be wrong. I have said that I don’t see W-L record as everything, and I look at other stats as well, and just, because one pitcher has a better record than another doesn’t mean he’s a better pitcher. I have said I understand their way of looking at statistics, and coming to a different conclusion than me, but that we just disagree. On the other side of the equation it’s their way is the only way that’s right. One disagreed with Sean McAdams, because McAdams didn’t agree with him that Monty was a solid #2 starter, so of course his conclusions was McAdams didn’t know what he’s talking about. Another didn’t like a FA ranking, because it didn’t meet his standards, so of course it had to be the ranking had to be ridiculous. Everyone can have their own opinion, and if someone has another opinion it doesn’t mean they’re wrong. So when some think they have everything figured out, and has the right answers it may be that way for them, but not for everyone, and that seems to be a hard pill to swallow.

 

I've been wrong about plenty of things. I'd like to have a discussion with McAdam about what he bases his opinion of Montgomery on. Because the stats all say he's a solid #2. And his performance in helping the Rangers win the ring indicated the same thing. So I'd ask Sean exactly what he's got? the same as I would anyone.

[Bellhorn04]

If you combine the 2023 regular season and postseason, Monty pitched 219.2 innings with a 3.15 ERA.

 

Whaddya want, Sean?

[dgalehouse]

I think it is time to let this go. I am getting repetitive, and I don't like to do that. I do think I am taking a reasonable position that a guy's win and loss total is not the only thing that matters, but it is definitely not meaningless either. That is all I am saying. I am sure that if the Sox sign Yamamoto, it is with the hope that he wins a lot of games.

[Bellhorn04]

And in case Sean didn't notice, the Red Sox haven't exactly been flush with starting pitchers who can throw 180 innings the last few years, let alone have a good ERA in the process.

[Old Red]

And in case Sean didn't notice, the Red Sox haven't exactly been flush with starting pitchers who can throw 180 innings the last few years, let alone have a good ERA in the process.

 

I have said that I’m ok if the Red Sox sign him, and that he will make the rotation better, but I guess that’s just not good enough.

[Old Red]

If you combine the 2023 regular season and postseason, Monty pitched 219.2 innings with a 3.15 ERA.

 

Whaddya want, Sean?

 

No doubt those are good stats.

[dgalehouse]

Agree. Ranking your starters 1-5 makes little sense. They all have to pitch in turn. Every win counts the same in the standings.

[Old Red]

I think it is time to let this go. I am getting repetitive, and I don't like to do that. I do think I am taking a reasonable position that a guy's win and loss total is not the only thing that matters, but it is definitely not meaningless either. That is all I am saying. I am sure that if the Sox sign Yamamoto, it is with the hope that he wins a lot of games.

 

Agree, and we both have said the same thing that W-L record is far from everything, and even if it was lots of different things, and stats go into that record, but the other side of the discussion wants it all their way, and anything else is wrong.

[Bellhorn04]

I have said that I’m ok if the Red Sox sign him, and that he will make the rotation better, but I guess that’s just not good enough.

 

If we get Yamamoto that would be awesome. After that, you could make a good argument that Gray and Montgomery are the two best options. Snell might have more talent, but he's got the injury risk. Gray and Monty have been reasonably durable.

 

I have a sense of desperation about this. We have to land 1 or 2 of these guys.

[Old Red]

If we get Yamamoto that would be awesome. After that, you could make a good argument that Gray and Montgomery are the two best options. Snell might have more talent, but he's got the injury risk. Gray and Monty have been reasonably durable.

 

I have a sense of desperation about this. We have to land 1 or 2 of these guys.

 

If they sign the Yam Man for boatloads of money I can’t see them making another big splash, and a trade would have to be made for more starting pitching.

[Old Red]

If you combine the 2023 regular season and postseason, Monty pitched 219.2 innings with a 3.15 ERA.

 

Whaddya want, Sean?

 

It’s not like you, and Sean are that far apart when you come right down to it. Sean did say he was a #2 just not a solid #2 like you do.

[Old Red]

Agree. Ranking your starters 1-5 makes little sense. They all have to pitch in turn. Every win counts the same in the standings.

 

Kluber was the opening day starter last year, so in reality he was #1, and if he had stayed In the rotation he would have been matched up against the other teams #1 starters for awhile.

[notin]

Agree. Ranking your starters 1-5 makes little sense. They all have to pitch in turn. Every win counts the same in the standings.

 

Agreed.

 

In fact I can go a step further and say people make way too big a deal out of these rankings. It’s not like when the Braves were trotting out Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz, anyone ever referred to Smoltz as a #3 starter.

 

I’m not overly high on Montgomery, but one thing no one can argue is that he is an upgrade for this current rotation…

[moonslav59]

It’s not like you, and Sean are that far apart when you come right down to it. Sean did say he was a #2 just not a solid #2 like you do.

 

I thought he said back end 2 to Frint end 3.

[moonslav59]

Agreed.

 

In fact I can go a step further and say people make way too big a deal out of these rankings. It’s not like when the Braves were trotting out Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz, anyone ever referred to Smoltz as a #3 starter.

 

I’m not overly high on Montgomery, but one thing no one can argue is that he is an upgrade for this current rotation…

 

It’s a convenient way to group starters, or so I thought, but there are so many differing views on what a 1, 2 and 3 SPer is, I am agreeing, too.

 

I’d be happy to see us sign Monty, but I still hope we find a way to make him the second best pitcher we add.

 

Yes, it’s a dream.

[moonslav59]

If we get Yamamoto that would be awesome. After that, you could make a good argument that Gray and Montgomery are the two best options. Snell might have more talent, but he's got the injury risk. Gray and Monty have been reasonably durable.

 

I have a sense of desperation about this. We have to land 1 or 2 of these guys.

 

Gray would not be for7 years, but he would cost a pick.

 

I agree with you: after Yano, Monty and Gray might be the best left.

[Old Red]

I thought he said back end 2 to Frint end 3.

 

Semantics! Really? 🙈

[notin]

Gray would not be for7 years, but he would cost a pick.

 

I agree with you: after Yano, Monty and Gray might be the best left.

 

Blake Snell (6.0 bWAR) should top any such list. Gray (5.3 bWAR), Montgomery (4.2 bWAR), Clevinger (3.3 bWAR) come in next…

[moonslav59]

Semantics! Really? 🙈

 

Maybe, but also it might depend on how many number 2’s and 3’s there are in MLB. If you think it’s about 30 #2’s, then I would think there is a big gap between a top #2 and a top #3, but maybe they aren’t that far apart.

[Old Red]

Maybe, but also it might depend on how many number 2’s and 3’s there are in MLB. If you think it’s about 30 #2’s, then I would think there is a big gap between a top #2 and a top #3, but maybe they aren’t that far apart.

 

Like I said earlier these are just numbers. Kluber started out #1 in the rotation last year. That’s how much those numbers really matter.

[moonslav59]

Like I said earlier these are just numbers. Kluber started out #1 in the rotation last year. That’s how much those numbers really matter.

 

Yes, we know your viewpoint.

[Old Red]

Yes, we know your viewpoint.

 

Kluber starting out #1 last year was Cora’s viewpoint.

[moonslav59]

Kluber starting out #1 last year was Cora’s viewpoint.

 

As much Bloom’s fault.

 

Paxton and Bello were on the IL, too.

[Bellhorn04]

Blake Snell (6.0 bWAR) should top any such list. Gray (5.3 bWAR), Montgomery (4.2 bWAR), Clevinger (3.3 bWAR) come in next…

 

So you're officially a bWAR for pitchers guy.

[notin]

So you're officially a bWAR for pitchers guy.

 

It’s just easier sometimes. Fangraphs isn’t always phone friendly.

 

I wish I had better logic for my preference than that…

[moonslav59]

It’s just easier sometimes. Fangraphs isn’t always phone friendly.

 

I wish I had better logic for my preference than that…

 

FWAR 2023

5.3 Gray

4.3 Monty

4.1 Snell

3.9 Nola signed w PHI

(Cease 3.7, Burnes 3.4, Glasgow 3.1)

3.0 ERod (Garrett 3.0)

2.8 Lugo

2.6 Wacha, Stroman, Gibson

2.2 Clevinger

 

 

 

 

[notin]

FWAR 2023

5.3 Gray

4.3 Monty

4.1 Snell

3.9 Nola signed w PHI

(Cease 3.7, Burnes 3.4, Glasgow 3.1)

3.0 ERod (Garrett 3.0)

2.8 Lugo

2.6 Wacha, Stroman, Gibson

2.2 Clevinger

 

 

 

 

 

If the White Sox would do that Rafaela/Bleis trade, I’d add Cease to the staff today…