9/06 SOX @ Rays 6:40PM ET

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Not likely. NYY Have reserved that spot.

 

Not likely? Maybe you should look at the current standings and look at the SOX remaining schedule and look at the SOX starting pitching. And, finally, look at Devers.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

On the bright side, not a bad job by all SOX pitchers involved. The SOX were just beaten by an elite pitcher. Edited September 7, 2023 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[moonslav59]

Moon….it’s been over for several weeks. This team is mediocre which is even worse than being bad. At least if you’re a bad team to can get a good draft pick.

 

Yes, mediocre, despite some things working out better than expected (Paxton, Crawford, Wink, Casas, Duran, our catchers- and a few more) and some worse (Whitlock, Houck, middle IF, Kluber and a few more.)

 

I think we improved the foundation we will pass on to 2024. It's better than the one 2020 passed on to 2021, and the one 2021 passed on to 2022.

 

To me, we have 3-4 major needs for 2024:

SP 1

SP 2

OF

Maybe LH'd RP

 

We had like 20 slots open before 2020, 14 before 2021, 11 before 22 and 8 before 2023.

 

I'm not sure how many prospects will be helping in 2024, but Rafaela and Abreo look very promising. Maybe EValdez and some surprises?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

My take on the ownership attitude regarding the SOX currently is this. JH spent a lot of money and wasted a lot of money in financially allowing the SOX to win 4 championships under his ownership. His current attitude is to make as much money as possible by checking attendance for every home game. He had to re-sign Devers to avoid empty seats at Fenway. So, it's all about giant profits for JH for now and until he eventually sells the team. Cynical, I know, but that's how I view it. Edited September 7, 2023 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

My take on the ownership attitude regarding the SOX currently is this. JH spent a lot of money and wasted a lot of money in financially allowing the SOX to win 4 championships under his ownership. His current attitude is to make as much money as possible by checking attendance for every home game. He had to re-sign Devers to avoid empty seats at Fenway. So, it's all about giant profits for JH for now and until he eventually sells the team. Cynical, I know, but that's how I view it.

 

If the SOX are going to be true contenders in the future, it's gotta happen thru the farm. The days of JH paying for expensive FA's, imho, are over.

[moonslav59]

My take on the ownership attitude regarding the SOX currently is this. JH spent a lot of money and wasted a lot of money in financially allowing the SOX to win 4 championships under his ownership. His current attitude is to make as much money as possible by checking attendance for every home game. He had to re-sign Devers to avoid empty seats at Fenway. So, it's all about giant profits for JH for now and until he eventually sells the team. Cynical, I know, but that's how I view it.

 

He made a lot of money, when we were winning, too.

 

I think he'll spend big, again, soon, but who knows.

 

I don't blame anyone for being cynical, especially right now.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

BTW, no matter how one feels about JH it is true the SOX don't win 4 championships if it wasn't for his heavy spending in the past.

[moonslav59]

If the SOX are going to be true contenders in the future, it's gotta happen thru the farm. The days of JH paying for expensive FA's, imho, are over.

 

That 2018 team certainly had plenty of FAs, some pretty highly paid (Price & JD,) but the rest was mostly traded with homegrown stock or homegrown studs like:

Betts

Bogey

JBJ

Beni

Vaz

Devers

 

(Traded for: Sale, ERod, Nate, Porcello, Kimbrel, Kelly, Holt, Nunez, Pearce, Hembree)

 

It looks like we need 2-3 big signings to get close to competitive. Sounds doable, but we'll see,

 

[moonslav59]

BTW, no matter how one feels about JH it is true the SOX don't win 4 championships if it wasn't for his heavy spending in the past.

 

No doubt in my mind: No JH- no rings. (Okay, maybe one with someone else willing to spend, but does "someone else hire Theo?)

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

He made a lot of money, when we were winning, too.

 

I think he'll spend big, again, soon, but who knows.

 

I don't blame anyone for being cynical, especially right now.

 

I don't have any ill will towards JH. 4 championships under his ownership after 86 years of zip. He should, at least, be remembered for that.

And JH did have more than his share of shite long-term contracts.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

No doubt in my mind: No JH- no rings. (Okay, maybe one with someone else willing to spend, but does "someone else hire Theo?)

 

 

True, but he did go after Billy Beane first.

[moonslav59]

True, but he did go after Billy Beane first.

 

Not sure how BB would have done with a checkbook

[Duran Is The Man]

He made a lot of money, when we were winning, too.

 

I think he'll spend big, again, soon, but who knows.

 

I don't blame anyone for being cynical, especially right now.

 

if JH wants to win more rings he's going to have to spend big.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Not sure how BB would have done with a checkbook

 

Good point. If Beane had said yes, it may have been a whole different history. Probably not 4 championships.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

if JH wants to win more rings he's going to have to spend big.

 

 

I just don't see that 'hunger' in JH anymore. Even though I'm grateful for what he did in the past, I would not complain for a second if he sold the team.

[moonslav59]

Good point. If Beane had said yes, it may have been a whole different history. Probably not 4 championships.

 

maybe 5.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

maybe 5.

 

Maybe none. No way of knowing, but I'll take the 4.

[moonslav59]

if JH wants to win more rings he's going to have to spend big.

 

I figure we have about $48M to spend and not go over the tax line, but we have gone over the line as soon as 2022. Maybe he'll spend up to $68M to avoid going over the second line.

 

If you believe like I do, that we really only need 3 major additions for 2024, he may not need to spend more than $48-68M, this winter. (Note: he spent about $80M AAV, last winter.)

 

$25-30M per on an ace

$15-20M on a solid #2

$8-18M on OF'er

 

Of course, I could be wrong.... again.

[moonslav59]

I just don't see that 'hunger' in JH anymore. Even though I'm grateful for what he did in the past, I would not complain for a second if he sold the team.

 

Hard to get a read on what JH is thinking, let alone feeling.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I figure we have about $48M to spend and not go over the tax line, but we have gone over the line as soon as 2022. Maybe he'll spend up to $68M to avoid going over the second line.

 

If you believe like I do, that we really only need 3 major additions for 2024, he may not need to spend more than $48-68M, this winter. (Note: he spent about $80M AAV, last winter.)

 

$25-30M per on an ace

$15-20M on a solid #2

$8-18M on OF'er

 

Of course, I could be wrong.... again.

 

Just because you may end up wrong doesn't mean your post doesn't make sense.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Hard to get a read on what JH is thinking, let alone feeling.

 

That's for sure. Not exactly a big talker. But sometimes action, or lack of, speaks louder than words.

[vegasbob]

A lot of prior discussion on offense-pitching-defense, even baserunning affecting game outcomes. When a team K's 17 out of 27 outs, they basically are overmatched on a given night. The Sox have been overmatched a lot (4-8 in last 12) .

 

The most disappointing part of the recent record is that when matched up against top level teams , there has been very little response or indication of abilities to win. This is a team without character or characters who can make a difference. They do not rise to the challenge nor occasion . They are content to play out the final 22 and maybe beat the Yankees for last place in the ALE. But look at the progress made by having an over .500 record in Bloom's 4th year. There is that.

[moonslav59]

Just because you may end up wrong doesn't mean your post doesn't make sense.

 

Had we had just 2 from Nate, Wacha and Eflin, we'd be in the race, right now, so I don't think it's a great leap to think we can strike gold, this winter.

[moonslav59]

A lot of prior discussion on offense-pitching-defense, even baserunning affecting game outcomes. When a team K's 17 out of 27 outs, they basically are overmatched on a given night. Th4e Sox have been overmatched a lot 94-8 in last 12) .

 

The most disappointing part of the recent record is that when matched up against top level teams , there has been very little response or indication of abilities to win. This is a team without character or characters who can make a difference. They do not rise to the challenge nor occasion . They are content to play out the final 22 and maybe beat the Yankees for last place in the ALE. But look at the progress made by having an over .500 record in Bloom's 4th year. There is that.

 

We really could have used the leadership of Bogey, JD, Nate and Vaz, right?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

We really could have used the leadership of Bogey, JD, Nate and Vaz, right?

 

Hey, MOON, shouldn't that have been posted in green?

[FredLynn]

Yes, mediocre, despite some things working out better than expected (Paxton, Crawford, Wink, Casas, Duran, our catchers- and a few more) and some worse (Whitlock, Houck, middle IF, Kluber and a few more.)

 

I think we improved the foundation we will pass on to 2024. It's better than the one 2020 passed on to 2021, and the one 2021 passed on to 2022.

 

To me, we have 3-4 major needs for 2024:

SP 1

SP 2

OF

Maybe LH'd RP

 

We had like 20 slots open before 2020, 14 before 2021, 11 before 22 and 8 before 2023.

 

I'm not sure how many prospects will be helping in 2024, but Rafaela and Abreo look very promising. Maybe EValdez and some surprises?

 

There were definitely some bright spots. Not sure I agree with all of them you listed. I believe Turner has a player option. If he leaves we will also need a good RH bat. SP is out most obvious need.

I think it’s going to take two years. Then we can make a good run if it’s done properly.

[vegasbob]

We really could have used the leadership of Bogey, JD, Nate and Vaz, right?

 

I honestly can't say if those particular individuals would have made a big difference. For example, I think I'd rather have JT than JDM. Bogaerts may have helped but he isn't carrying SDP anywhere and his contract is an albatross in a couple years. Wong is better for the future than Vazquez.

 

I will say one thing, I do not see Devers being a leader, example to young guys nor long term (4-5+ years) member of this team. He can contribute but is not a great player. He will not be in Boston except as a visitor by 2028.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I honestly can't say if those particular individuals would have made a big difference. For example, I think I'd rather have JT than JDM. Bogaerts may have helped but he isn't carrying SDP anywhere and his contract is an albatross in a couple years. Wong is better for the future than Vazquez.

 

I will say one thing, I do not see Devers being a leader, example to young guys nor long term (4-5+ years) member of this team. He can contribute but is not a great player. He will not be in Boston except as a visitor by 2028.

 

Devers is not a leader; he's a gifted hitter who is going thru his 2nd straight season of finishing the season on an off note. There's still 22 games left and perhaps he can regain his groove sometime soon. Stay tuned.

[Tedballgame]

I honestly can't say if those particular individuals would have made a big difference. For example, I think I'd rather have JT than JDM. Bogaerts may have helped but he isn't carrying SDP anywhere and his contract is an albatross in a couple years. Wong is better for the future than Vazquez.

 

I will say one thing, I do not see Devers being a leader, example to young guys nor long term (4-5+ years) member of this team. He can contribute but is not a great player. He will not be in Boston except as a visitor by 2028.

 

No team will take on his contract. He will be with the Sox until the end of the contract.

[moonslav59]

No team will take on his contract. He will be with the Sox until the end of the contract.

 

He'll be 31 years old in 2028. He'll be 36 in his last year of the deal.

 

With inflation the way it is, there is no telling what his value might be in 5, 7 or 8 years.

 

He's just now entering peak prime, although his numbers did not jump.

 

OPS+

134 in '21

142 in '22

125 in '23

Edited September 7, 2023 by moonslav59