Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

That’s what you got out of that? I know you’ve been all fixated with getting Chapman, but I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell of that happening. Of course Cora likes D, and he talks about it all the time, but I just don’t see him moving Casas, or Raffy off their positions to a FT DH role. Once again you come up with this far fetched notion that I’m saying Cora is stupid. You must think that to come up with it, but I just think there is not even any kind of thought of adding Chapman, or moving Raffy, or Casas.

 

I can agree Chapman is unlikely, but I can’t guarantee the Sox haven’t talked to him. So many conversations go unpublished. If we only believe MLBTR, no one has talked to Chapman in over a month now.

 

Your statements are contradictory. The Sox had the worst infield defense in MLB, notably at 1b and 3b. If Cora really emphasizes defense as you say, why would he be so dedicated to the status quo? (That he left Kike at SS for so long does tell me his commitment to defense just might be all talk.)

 

And if Breslow doesn’t see this as an issue - especially since it’s one even I was able to spot - I have serious questions about him, too…

[Old Red]

I don't disagree, but the messaging was totally the opposite. From a PR perspective they continue to look like buffoons. Why not just retain Bloom if we're still being patient?

 

Obviously some guys, like Dombrowski, can walk in and start making deals left and right...

You are not putting Bloom, and Slow Mo in the same category with the many years experience of DD are you. Obviously DD had a fallen out with JH, and most likely Bloom had a fallen out with someone.

[notin]

I don't disagree, but the messaging was totally the opposite. From a PR perspective they continue to look like buffoons. Why not just retain Bloom if we're still being patient?

 

Obviously some guys, like Dombrowski, can walk in and start making deals left and right...

 

Dombrowski has been pretty paralyzed this offseason too. Outside of bringing back Nola, has he done anything?

[moonslav59]

I can agree Chapman is unlikely, but I can’t guarantee the Sox haven’t talked to him. So many conversations go unpublished. If we only believe MLBTR, no one has talked to Chapman in over a month now.

 

Your statements are contradictory. The Sox had the worst infield defense in MLB, notably at 1b and 3b. If Cora really emphasizes defense as you say, why would he be so dedicated to the status quo? (That he left Kike at SS for so long does tell me his commitment to defense just might be all talk.)

 

And if Breslow doesn’t see this as an issue - especially since it’s one even I was able to spot - I have serious questions about him, too…

 

I’d love to improve our D at two positions with one signing. Chapman would also help replace tge lost bats- Turner and Duvall. I might even predict better 2024 numbers from Chapman and O’Neill on O, too.

 

I just can’t see repeating the pattern of spending everywhere but the rotation as being a good plan. Now, sign a decent SPer and trade for another, and signing Chapman makes a ton of sense. While it pushes Yoshida to LF, it might free up an OFer to be part of that trade for a SPer.

[Old Red]

I can agree Chapman is unlikely, but I can’t guarantee the Sox haven’t talked to him. So many conversations go unpublished. If we only believe MLBTR, no one has talked to Chapman in over a month now.

 

Your statements are contradictory. The Sox had the worst infield defense in MLB, notably at 1b and 3b. If Cora really emphasizes defense as you say, why would he be so dedicated to the status quo? (That he left Kike at SS for so long does tell me his commitment to defense just might be all talk.)

 

And if Breslow doesn’t see this as an issue - especially since it’s one even I was able to spot - I have serious questions about him, too…

 

There is nothing contradictory at all. Cora values D, but sometimes you have to play the cards you are dealt, and in this case Cora has been dealt Raffy, Casas, and Yoshida, and that’s what he’s going to play. It would be great if Raffy could pick ‘em like Mikey Lowell, and Casas could scoop em like Boomer Scott, but they can’t. I’m sure everyone sees D as a problem, but to make a drastic move to fix it just might not be in the cards.

[notin]

There is nothing contradictory at all. Cora values D, but sometimes you have to play the cards you are dealt, and in this case Cora has been dealt Raffy, Casas, and Yoshida, and that’s what he’s going to play. It would be great if Raffy could pick ‘em like Mikey Lowell, and Casas could scoop em like Boomer Scott, but they can’t. I’m sure everyone sees D as a problem, but to make a drastic move to fix it just might not be in the cards.

 

Cora was dealt Pablo Reyes and Yu Chang and still kept playing Kike. Heck he could have tried Christian Arroyo there with better results.

 

If the Sox DON’T make a drastic move to fix their defense, it will continue to be a problem. And make it much harder to attract good pitchers.

 

But also - if he was dealt Chapman, do you think he would or would he not move Casas/Devers over to 1b/DH in some arrangement? Personally I hope he would…

[notin]

I’d love to improve our D at two positions with one signing. Chapman would also help replace tge lost bats- Turner and Duvall. I might even predict better 2024 numbers from Chapman and O’Neill on O, too.

 

I just can’t see repeating the pattern of spending everywhere but the rotation as being a good plan. Now, sign a decent SPer and trade for another, and signing Chapman makes a ton of sense. While it pushes Yoshida to LF, it might free up an OFer to be part of that trade for a SPer.

 

If they had a good defense, maybe the Sox wouldn’t need to spend as much on the rotation…

[moonslav59]

Cora was dealt Pablo Reyes and Yu Chang and still kept playing Kike. Heck he could have tried Christian Arroyo there with better results.

 

If the Sox DON’T make a drastic move to fix their defense, it will continue to be a problem. And make it much harder to attract good pitchers.

 

But also - if he was dealt Chapman, do you think he would or would he not move Casas/Devers over to 1b/DH in some arrangement? Personally I hope he would…

 

I mentioned trying Arroyo, last spring.

 

Another example is when Cora kept Bogey at SS after acquiring Story.

[moonslav59]

If they had a good defense, maybe the Sox wouldn’t need to spend as much on the rotation…

 

Good point, but our rotation still has 2 holes in it.

[Old Red]

Cora was dealt Pablo Reyes and Yu Chang and still kept playing Kike. Heck he could have tried Christian Arroyo there with better results.

 

If the Sox DON’T make a drastic move to fix their defense, it will continue to be a problem. And make it much harder to attract good pitchers.

 

But also - if he was dealt Chapman, do you think he would or would he not move Casas/Devers over to 1b/DH in some arrangement? Personally I hope he would…

 

I’m not even going to contemplate anything to do with acquiring Chapman, because like I said I think there is a snowball’s chance in hell of that happening. I know your fixated with Chapman like you was with Gallo last year, but neither did, or will happen.

[Old Red]

I mentioned trying Arroyo, last spring.

 

Another example is when Cora kept Bogey at SS after acquiring Story.

 

Keeping Bogey at SS is not even close to being a good example of what happened, or didn’t happen at SS last year.

[notin]

I mentioned trying Arroyo, last spring.

 

Another example is when Cora kept Bogey at SS after acquiring Story.

 

That was also not a defensive move.

 

Certainly the fiasco at SS is last year is also on Bloom. Mondesi? When your problems are SS injuries, Adalberto Mondesi is NOT the solution. Elvis Andrus was sitting there begging for work, too.

 

But Cora kept playing Kike over Reyes even with Kike extending inning after inning. And he moved Kike to CF for one game, and Kike showed he belonged there and could impact a game with his CF glove. So where does he play the next day?

 

Back at SS.

 

It’s not hard to doubt Cora’s commitment to defense…

[Old Red]

That was also not a defensive move.

 

Certainly the fiasco at SS is last year is also on Bloom. Mondesi? When your problems are SS injuries, Adalberto Mondesi is NOT the solution. Elvis Andrus was sitting there begging for work, too.

 

But Cora kept playing Kike over Reyes even with Kike extending inning after inning. And he moved Kike to CF for one game, and Kike showed he belonged there and could impact a game with his CF glove. So where does he play the next day?

 

Back at SS.

 

It’s not hard to doubt Cora’s commitment to defense…

I’m certainly not defending Cora, but I think he thought his boy Kike could handle SS in the beginning, but why he kept him there that long is no defense for it especially it was known early he couldn’t handle it.

[Bellhorn04]

It was a huge mistake.

 

I do think Cora sticks with some players for too long. It worked for Dalbec and Kike in 2021.

 

It did not with Dugo v lefties, Kluber, Richards, Perez and others .

 

I think Cora is a lot like Francona. Tito was also accused of sticking with guys too long. I especially remember him taking abuse for sticking with Millar in 2005. He even got ragged for sticking with Ortiz when Papi had that vicious slump in 2009.

[notin]

I’m certainly not defending Cora, but I think he thought his boy Kike could handle SS in the beginning, but why he kept him there that long is no defense for it especially it was known early he couldn’t handle it.

 

My point exactly.

 

I stand by his decision to give Kike a legitimate try. But Cora kept it going far too long and much longer than he had to.

 

But if you really think Cora values defense, don’t you find it interesting that he played Justin Turner at 2b - a position where Turner had played all one ONE INNING since 2015 - more often than he played him at 3b? Pretty sure Cora’s goal was to get another bat into the lineup at the expense of a light-hitting player with better defensive skills…

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski has been pretty paralyzed this offseason too. Outside of bringing back Nola, has he done anything?

 

Reportedly focused on an extension for Wheeler.

[notin]

I think Cora is a lot like Francona. Tito was also accused of sticking with guys too long. I especially remember him taking abuse for sticking with Millar in 2005. He even got ragged for sticking with Ortiz when Papi had that vicious slump in 2009.

 

To me, there a big difference between sticking with a slumping player with a legitimate track record of success, and sticking with a player in a new role when it’s clearly not working out and costing you games…

[moonslav59]

That was also not a defensive move.

 

Certainly the fiasco at SS is last year is also on Bloom. Mondesi? When your problems are SS injuries, Adalberto Mondesi is NOT the solution. Elvis Andrus was sitting there begging for work, too.

 

But Cora kept playing Kike over Reyes even with Kike extending inning after inning. And he moved Kike to CF for one game, and Kike showed he belonged there and could impact a game with his CF glove. So where does he play the next day?

 

Back at SS.

 

It’s not hard to doubt Cora’s commitment to defense…

 

It was a horrible choice.

 

I do t think calling the choice stupid is overkill.

 

I would not call Cora stupid over a few choice we view as stupid.

[notin]

Reportedly focused on an extension for Wheeler.

 

Ok. I get the priority there…

[moonslav59]

I think Cora is a lot like Francona. Tito was also accused of sticking with guys too long. I especially remember him taking abuse for sticking with Millar in 2005. He even got ragged for sticking with Ortiz when Papi had that vicious slump in 2009.

 

I think there is value in showing players loyalty. At times, it hurts the team more that that value, IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

To me, there a big difference between sticking with a slumping player with a legitimate track record of success, and sticking with a player in a new role when it’s clearly not working out and costing you games…

 

I think it was mainly about trying to keep Kike's bat in the lineup.

 

Also, didn't Kike play some SS with the Dodgers? Wouldn't they be out of their minds to do that if he was hopeless at the position?

[notin]

It was a horrible choice.

 

I do t think calling the choice stupid is overkill.

 

I would not call Cora stupid over a few choice we view as stupid.

 

Fair.

 

But I think I do highlight questionable choices that Cora probably has some rationale for. Now would I find his logic acceptable? TBD

 

To bring back the stupid, that was mentioned as a hypothetical when Red suggested Cora would not play a younger player as a full time DH. I absolutely would call that logic stupid, but we have no evidence Cora adheres to that philosophy…

[moonslav59]

Reportedly focused on an extension for Wheeler.

 

So, even the great DD can only do one thing at a time?

[Old Red]

My point exactly.

 

I stand by his decision to give Kike a legitimate try. But Cora kept it going far too long and much longer than he had to.

 

But if you really think Cora values defense, don’t you find it interesting that he played Justin Turner at 2b - a position where Turner had played all one ONE INNING since 2015 - more often than he played him at 3b? Pretty sure Cora’s goal was to get another bat into the lineup at the expense of a light-hitting player with better defensive skills…

 

Seems to me the Red Sox already have a regular 3B, so that answers that question. Like I keep saying Cora for the most part especially at 1B, and 3B is playing the cards he’s been dealt, and you can keep saying Cora doesn’t value D all you want, but that’s not going to mean, or change anything.

[Bellhorn04]

I think there is value in showing players loyalty. At times, it hurts the team more that that value, IMO.

 

Of course. But nobody has a crystal ball to know which way it's going to go.

[Bellhorn04]

So, even the great DD can only do one thing at a time?

 

"Reportedly" they were also in on Moto.

 

But I can't really tell you what's going on behind closed doors in Phillie World any more than I can about Sox World.

[Old Red]

I think it was mainly about trying to keep Kike's bat in the lineup.

 

Also, didn't Kike play some SS with the Dodgers? Wouldn't they be out of their minds to do that if he was hopeless at the position?

 

Kike’s bat in the lineup? He didn’t hit his last two years in Boston. Kike was way overrated on here, because of October 2021.

[notin]

I think it was mainly about trying to keep Kike's bat in the lineup.

 

Also, didn't Kike play some SS with the Dodgers? Wouldn't they be out of their minds to do that if he was hopeless at the position?

 

He did, but only topped 150 innings in a season twice and never topped 160. Seems like more of a short term solution as opposed to a starter. Cora played over half of his 1100 career innings at SS in Boston, despite playing less than 1/3 of his career there (by games played)…

[Bellhorn04]

Kike’s bat in the lineup? He didn’t hit his last two years in Boston. Kike was way overrated on here, because of October 2021.

 

CBOs and managers can fall prey to this thing called "hope" just like fans do.

[Bellhorn04]

He did, but only topped 150 innings in a season twice and never topped 160.

 

Should have been clearer - the Dodgers played him there some after trading for him in 2023. Why would you do that if he's a butcher at the position?

 

Isn't it more likely he was suffering from a case of the yips which could be short-term or not?