Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

Flaherty is a lateral (maybe) move for Pivetta or Houck. If they sign him, he's a 5th starter. They need a #1 and a #3 at least.

 

I think expecting a #1 and a #3 is a recipe for disappointment unless the budget is rather large…

[mvp 78]

Turnbull is an unknown at worst given his recent injury history. But he was absolutely a good pitcher prior. Do the Dox have 5 better reliable starters?

 

Bello

Kutter

Pivetta

Houck

Whitlock

 

Even Whitlock's career SP FIP and xFIP are better than Turnbull's and I don't want him anywhere near the rotation. Turnbull's one good season was a 9 game sample in '21 when he got injured. Hard to really bank on that.

[mvp 78]

I think expecting a #1 and a #3 is a recipe for disappointment unless the budget is rather large…

 

They said FULL THROTTLE.

[notin]

They said FULL THROTTLE.

 

That’s a relative term. Ask the owners of a Maserati and a Kia Soul and compare the answers…

[moonslav59]

It sucks we are talking about tier two, so quickly.

 

To me, signing the two best tier two is a lame approach, even if they are "improvements" over what we have. Their biggest asset is that they force some of our tweeners to the pen.

 

Am I alone in thinking Seth Lugo should be near the top of the tier 2 list?

 

I might order tier 2 like this:

 

(Kershaw to LAD)

 

1. Imanaga

1B. Bauer (w baggage)

3. Stroman

4. Lugo

5. ERod

6. Wacha

7. Giolito

 

Tier 3 (Borderline helpful.)

1. Flaherty

2. Paxton

3. Y Rod (RP?)

4. Montas 1 yr

5. Severino 1 yr

 

Tier 4 (No thank you)

Ryu, Lorenzen, Turnbull, Manaea, Clevinger, Miley

 

[moonslav59]

Bello

Kutter

Pivetta

Houck

Whitlock

 

Even Whitlock's career SP FIP and xFIP are better than Turnbull's and I don't want him anywhere near the rotation. Turnbull's one good season was a 9 game sample in '21 when he got injured. Hard to really bank on that.

 

Is Whitlock "reliable," especially as a SP'er?

 

(Note: I'd rather have him than Turnbull, but I like him in the pen, so...

[mvp 78]

That’s a relative term. Ask the owners of a Maserati and a Kia Soul and compare the answers…

 

The Red Sox are not a Kia Soul. They said as much this offseason. Their goal is a WS. If they only sign a 4th and 5th starter, they have FAILED.

[mvp 78]

Is Whitlock "reliable," especially as a SP'er?

 

(Note: I'd rather have him than Turnbull, but I like him in the pen, so...

 

Only more so than Turnbull.

[moonslav59]

Only more so than Turnbull.

 

Agreed, but as a SP'er, it is close.

[notin]

Bello

Kutter

Pivetta

Houck

Whitlock

 

Even Whitlock's career SP FIP and xFIP are better than Turnbull's and I don't want him anywhere near the rotation. Turnbull's one good season was a 9 game sample in '21 when he got injured. Hard to really bank on that.

 

Turnbull is certainly worthy of a depth move. Anything to keep Jacques out of the rotation…

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox are not a Kia Soul. They said as much this offseason. Their goal is a WS. If they only sign a 4th and 5th starter, they have FAILED.

 

Agreed.

 

I do not believe their hype talk, though.

 

Fool me once, shame on you.

 

Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

Fool me three times, "F" you!

[notin]

The Red Sox are not a Kia Soul. They said as much this offseason. Their goal is a WS. If they only sign a 4th and 5th starter, they have FAILED.

 

What if they bulk up the bullpen?

 

A reliever can impact more games than a starter…

[mvp 78]

It sucks we are talking about tier two, so quickly.

 

To me, signing the two best tier two is a lame approach, even if they are "improvements" over what we have. Their biggest asset is that they force some of our tweeners to the pen.

 

Am I alone in thinking Seth Lugo should be near the top of the tier 2 list?

 

I might order tier 2 like this:

 

(Kershaw to LAD)

 

1. Imanaga

1B. Bauer (w baggage)

3. Stroman

4. Lugo

5. ERod

6. Wacha

7. Giolito

 

Tier 3 (Borderline helpful.)

1. Flaherty

2. Paxton

3. Y Rod (RP?)

4. Montas 1 yr

5. Severino 1 yr

 

Tier 4 (No thank you)

Ryu, Lorenzen, Turnbull, Manaea, Clevinger, Miley

 

IMO:

Tier 2 - Stroman, Imanaga, ERod, Wacha, Montas, Giolito

Tier 3 - Paxton, Ryu, Lugo, Lorenzen, Manaea

Tier 4 - YRod, Flaherty, Severino, Turnbull, Miley

[mvp 78]

What if they bulk up the bullpen?

 

A reliever can impact more games than a starter…

 

They had a decent pen last year and a horrible rotation. They need to make the rotation not horrible.

[moonslav59]

Turnbull is certainly worthy of a depth move. Anything to keep Jacques out of the rotation…

 

For argument's sake, let's say we add Lugo or Stroman plus Turnbull....

 

1. Bello

2. Stroman/Lugo

3. Sale (LOL)

4. Pivetta

5. Kutter

6. Turnbull

 

What pitcher does he bump off the 26, or do you have him starting in AAA on openiung day? (Is he out of options?)

 

Jansen

Martin

Winckoski

Houck

Whitlock

Schreiber

 

Trade or DFA Mata?

Demote Bernardino and Campell?

 

If we can get Turbull on a minor league deal, then yes. Otherwise, I don't see the fit.

[mvp 78]

Turnbull is certainly worthy of a depth move. Anything to keep Jacques out of the rotation…

 

If it's Yamamoto and Turnbull is the 5th starter, fine.

[moonslav59]

They had a decent pen last year and a horrible rotation. They need to make the rotation not horrible.

 

Agreed, and trying to slightly improve our #5 is like what we've been doing for 3-4 years, except our #5 additions were expected to be our #2-3's.

[moonslav59]

If it's Yamamoto and Turnbull is the 5th starter, fine.

 

I'd still go...

 

1. Yamo

2. Bello

3. Sale (Houck, if Sale to IL)

4. Pivetta

5. Cutter

 

I know this cuts down on our nice long men in the pen to just Whitlock and maybe Murphy, but I don't see Turnbull as being better than our borderline pen guys like Bernardino, Campbell, Schreiber and maybe even Kelly & Mata.

[notin]

For argument's sake, let's say we add Lugo or Stroman plus Turnbull....

 

1. Bello

2. Stroman/Lugo

3. Sale (LOL)

4. Pivetta

5. Kutter

6. Turnbull

 

What pitcher does he bump off the 26, or do you have him starting in AAA on openiung day? (Is he out of options?)

 

Jansen

Martin

Winckoski

Houck

Whitlock

Schreiber

 

Trade or DFA Mata?

Demote Bernardino and Campell?

 

If we can get Turbull on a minor league deal, then yes. Otherwise, I don't see the fit.

 

Turnbull might even be an MiLB deal. He’s a bit of a wild card…

[notin]

If it's Yamamoto and Turnbull is the 5th starter, fine.

 

What about Stroman and ERod? Enough or not?

[mvp 78]

Agreed, and trying to slightly improve our #5 is like what we've been doing for 3-4 years, except our #5 additions were expected to be our #2-3's.

 

The Sox have enough #5's. No more room at the inn.

[mvp 78]

What about Stroman and ERod? Enough or not?

 

Stroman or ERod AND Turnbull, or all three?

[Bellhorn04]

That’s a relative term. Ask the owners of a Maserati and a Kia Soul and compare the answers…

 

Tom Werner knows fans aren't envisioning a Kia Soul.

[moonslav59]

IMO:

Tier 2 - Stroman, Imanaga, ERod, Wacha, Montas, Giolito

Tier 3 - Paxton, Ryu, Lugo, Lorenzen, Manaea

Tier 4 - YRod, Flaherty, Severino, Turnbull, Miley

 

You don't consider Bauer?

 

Hopefully, the Dodgers sign Kershaw and are happy with that.

 

That leaves NYY, NYM, BOS and a few others looking to spend to fight over Yamo and Monty.

 

The losers will then fight over Bauer, Imanaga, Stroman, ERod and Wacha/Giolito/Lugo/Montas.

 

I know Lugo has a short sample size as a SP'er, but he will not get a long deal, being 34. I'm not sure why so many never mention him. I'd much rather have him than Turnbull, Flaherty, Montas and maybe even Giolito.

 

I'd also prefer Paxton and maybe Severino over Turnbull & Flaherty.

 

 

 

[notin]

Tom Werner knows fans aren't envisioning a Kia Soul.

 

But does it change his decision to give them one?

 

Are we going to pretend the “money won’t be a factor” attitude is new? Or acknowledge that we are going to hear it whether money is a factor or not?

[Bellhorn04]

What if they bulk up the bullpen?

 

A reliever can impact more games than a starter…

 

And we had a lot of games last year that were lost in the first few innings...

 

Our bullpen is not that bad, and will be better if Houck gets moved from rotation to pen.

[Bellhorn04]

But does it change his decision to give them one?

 

I'm going by their messaging. It couldn't have been much clearer. Especially from the new unofficial spokesperson, Alex Cora.

[notin]

Stroman or ERod AND Turnbull, or all three?

 

Walk past Turnbull. No one is married to him as an option…

[Bellhorn04]

You don't consider Bauer?

 

Forget about Bauer.

[notin]

And we had a lot of games last year that were lost in the first few innings...

 

Our bullpen is not that bad, and will be better if Houck gets moved from rotation to pen.

 

I’ll place money now Houck starts more games than any of us prefer…