August 30 Houston at Boston

[Bellhorn04]

Yup, kinda like this past off season. Many of us thought this was going to be a big year based on salary they could spend but it didn't turn out well.

 

The past off season drove me nuts, especially the lack of upgrade to the rotation. You'd think Bloom learned from it, but who knows.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There will be moves, but we could be absolutely be disappointed by them.

 

Thanks for preparing us for threaded discussions on all available players of reported interest to the Red Sox who will be outbid by more attractive clubs that match offers taken to them by super agents.

 

Though I'm confident the front office can scrape together enough bodies to fill jerseys and field a team. But I swear, when we're finally good enough, then we'll get some really good players...

[moonslav59]

There will be moves, but we could be absolutely be disappointed by them.

 

I doubt anyone major gets shown the door, in terms of management or coaches.

 

I would not be surprised if most of the top brass sees this season as a step in the right direction, and in some ways, I can see their point.

 

The fact is, the fans have been let down for too many years, and their constant lies only make it worse.

 

 

I know it's not a major issue, but for whatever reason, not spending right up to the line pretty much says it all. This reminds me of the team management in the 70's that would do just enough to peak interest, yet fail to just take one more step to get us over the hump, name add one or two more solid pitchers.

 

I think our foundation of younger players and promising young players on the farm has improved dramatically since 2019, but many fans could care less. Some here seem almost hostile to even the talk of this area of focus. For the first time since 2018, we seem to be bringing back more players recently acquired. Granted, some will be finishing year 2 of a two year deal, or playing in their final option year in 2024, but those one year and done deals did nothing for the fan base or team continuity.

 

I've given up expecting "next winter" to be the turning point or "splurge winter," but if it's not, I doubt anyone will care, if they say 2025 is "the year."

[Bellhorn04]

I doubt anyone major gets shown the door, in terms of management or coaches.

 

I would not be surprised if most of the top brass sees this season as a step in the right direction, and in some ways, I can see their point.

 

We still have a month to go. If the pitching and defense continue their implosion and we finish under .500 and in last place again, that may not be the case. 2023 could end up even more embarrassing than 2022. That is not going to sell.

[moonslav59]

Yup, kinda like this past off season. Many of us thought this was going to be a big year based on salary they could spend but it didn't turn out well.

 

Most of the signings worked out well, and the focus on the pen was a worthy priority, but yes, the lack of risking salary on good SP'ers has been the theme since the Nate extension.

 

Perez I

Richards

Perez II

Wacha

Hill

Kluber

 

4 years and 6 significant additions, yet all below $10M/1 and all but 2 made any impact on the plus side.

[moonslav59]

We still have a month to go. If the pitching and defense continue their implosion and we finish under .500 and in last place again, that may not be the case. 2023 could end up even more embarrassing than 2022. That is not going to sell.

 

Finishing in last and under .500 might change the plans, but I doubt Cora or Bloom go.

 

The upper brass must be upset we did not win more often, but this is their hush-hush 5 year plan, that may actually be more like 6.

[Bellhorn04]

Finishing in last and under .500 might change the plans, but I doubt Cora or Bloom go.

 

The upper brass must be upset we did not win more often, but this is their hush-hush 5 year plan, that may actually be more like 6.

 

6 year plan - you went there? Oh no...

[moonslav59]

6 year plan - you went there? Oh no...

 

Sadly, it seems to be how management is looking at it.

 

I get no sense of urgency, at all. They talk in cryptic cliches trying to reassure the fans they are trying to build a winning team, but it seems so clear to me, the major focus has been on the extended future.

 

The drafting of pretty much only high school kids for the first 3 years of Bloom's tenure was very telling.

The massive amount of one year deals for the first 3 years was further evidence.

The lowering of our team salary ranking seals the deal for me.

 

This has only been paying lip service to the fans each season, while trying to secretly carry out a long view top priority. (It was not the only priority. We did spend enough to keep hopes mildly alive each March, after 2020, but it's plain as day what the plan has been. The questions, now, are...

 

When do they see us at the point where that focus can shift, even if slightly? Or, and I have said before, quoting that great The Smith's song, "How Soon is Now?"

 

You see, I've already waited so long

and all my hope is gone

 

Will we ever "splurge" again? I don't mean Cohen-like spending, but clearly enough to know we are "going for it, now."

 

I have no idea what the timeline is, of if they will ever "splurge" again. Maybe they really want to become the Rays of the North.

[Duran Is The Man]

6 year plan - you went there? Oh no...

 

i've been waiting for someone to defend BLoom's ineptitude by saying it's really just a 6 or 7 or 10 year plan to get out of the cellar. c'mon Moon, admit defeat, Bloom has been a huge disaster and we all know it.

[Dipre]

i've been waiting for someone to defend BLoom's ineptitude by saying it's really just a 6 or 7 or 10 year plan to get out of the cellar. c'mon Moon, admit defeat, Bloom has been a huge disaster and we all know it.

 

The problem is that moon defends Bloom because some of y'all are talking like you know exactly what ownership wanted from Bloom, or what their directives were, and that just isn't the case. We've seen a marked improvement in the farm system, and that's very important for posters like me, who never honestly thought the '23 team had a chance even if they got a wild card. I keep thinking they're about ready to make a splash before '24, and if they don't, I'll be the first one there with the pitchforks. In the meantime, I'm entitled to take a wait-and-see approach to how they build this team for next year, and others are entitled to disagree. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[Duran Is The Man]

The problem is that moon defends Bloom because some of y'all are talking like you know exactly what ownership wanted from Bloom, or what their directives were, and that just isn't the case. We've seen a marked improvement in the farm system, and that's very important for posters like me, who never honestly thought the '23 team had a chance even if they got a wild card. I keep thinking they're about ready to make a splash before '24, and if they don't, I'll be the first one there with the pitchforks. In the meantime, I'm entitled to take a wait-and-see approach to how they build this team for next year, and others are entitled to disagree. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

i have no idea what JH wants from Bloom, but what he's doing isn't working for me. i don't like finishing last or next to last every year with a crap team. and when they finish last next year, i have no doubt that Bloom's defenders will say it's really a 8 year plan or some ******** to cover up the incompetence of Bloom and his front office. sure, i'm happy the farm is "top 5" but until that translates into wins for the Sox, i really don't care.

[cukes]

The past off season drove me nuts, especially the lack of upgrade to the rotation. You'd think Bloom learned from it, but who knows.

 

Get used to it

[cukes]

i've been waiting for someone to defend BLoom's ineptitude by saying it's really just a 6 or 7 or 10 year plan to get out of the cellar. c'mon Moon, admit defeat, Bloom has been a huge disaster and we all know it.

 

Bloom is a horror show with or without JH, 6 7 8 year plan is ridiculous

[moonslav59]

Bloom is a horror show with or without JH, 6 7 8 year plan is ridiculous

 

What if was JH & Co's idea to tell Bloom it's a 6 year plan?

[mvp 78]

What if was JH & Co's idea to tell Bloom it's a 6 year plan?

 

If they try to sell me on a 6 year plan, I'm just going to drive to Target and grab some Rays and Marlins merch and cancel my MLB.tv subscription going forward. At least the local teams would be free to watch and don't lie to their fans about what they are.

[Bellhorn04]

What if was JH & Co's idea to tell Bloom it's a 6 year plan?

 

Holy Pure Depressing Speculation, Batman!

[mvp 78]

Holy Pure Depressing Speculation, Batman!

 

It makes me want to drive 1,300 miles just to get on the Tobin.

[cukes]

What if was JH & Co's idea to tell Bloom it's a 6 year plan?

 

Astros had a 6 year plan, their division record for the last 6 years was 4 firsts and 2 seconds, I see better fundamental baseball in Somerset, they are taught and try hard.at least we lead the league in errors

[moonslav59]

The problem is that moon defends Bloom because some of y'all are talking like you know exactly what ownership wanted from Bloom, or what their directives were, and that just isn't the case. We've seen a marked improvement in the farm system, and that's very important for posters like me, who never honestly thought the '23 team had a chance even if they got a wild card. I keep thinking they're about ready to make a splash before '24, and if they don't, I'll be the first one there with the pitchforks. In the meantime, I'm entitled to take a wait-and-see approach to how they build this team for next year, and others are entitled to disagree. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

I don't really see it as defending Bloom, because I expected him to do better than he has done, even with limited resources and no upper management behind an effort to "win now."

 

To be honest, I don't know who is behind this 5+ year plan that seems to be in place. That is why I hate to throw darts at someone who may not deserve it. If I knew Bloom talked upper management into huge budget cuts an no major prospect trades, I'd be firmly on the side of the Bloom cirtics, although I'd still think well of his work on establishing a foundation of younger players and a better looking farm.

 

I can name over a dozen moves Bloom made that I did not like at the time, yet I feel like some think I jump to his defense on everything. I haven't graded any of his winter moves very highly. Yes, higher than many, but not anywhere near unreasonable.

 

I swear to God, if nobody criticized Bloom for things out of his control or likely out of his control, I'd hardly post about him or "defend" him. He has not done a good job finding "gems in the rough," as I expected he would. He's found some, but not as much as I hoped he would do. He has not done well, so far, on his bigger signings and trades. He's done okay to good on mid level moves, except for SP'ers.

 

[moonslav59]

Astros had a 6 year plan, their division record for the last 6 years was 4 firsts and 2 seconds, I see better fundamental baseball in Somerset, they are taught and try hard.at least we lead the league in errors

 

 

 

I'm glad you brought up the Astros- a team I know well, as I have lived in its suburbs for over 15 years. If you want to use them as an example of a 6 year plan, there's was longer than 6:

 

89-73 in 2005, then 82-80 in 2006.

51-76 wins for 6 years from 2007 to 2014, thn a year kinda like our 2023 season at 86-76 in 2015.

 

Them sucking, badly is a major reason they are so good now. It's not even open to debate.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

I swear to God, if nobody criticized Bloom for things out of his control or likely out of his control, I'd hardly post about him or "defend" him. He has not done a good job finding "gems in the rough," as I expected he would. He's found some, but not as much as I hoped he would do. He has not done well, so far, on his bigger signings and trades. He's done okay to good on mid level moves, except for SP'ers.

 

 

The thing is -- as a few posters love to type everyday -- none of us know for sure just how much control Bloom has or doesn't have over investing in player acquisitions via spending budget money or prospect capital through trades... except maybe what it costs for minimum transactions to get AAAA relievers DFAed by other clubs (for those guys, at least we THINK Bloom has total control).

 

Ultimately, the failures of this organization are on Upper Management -- which includes both the front office and ownership.

 

Sam Kennedy said today that going forward the Red Sox need "pitching, pitching, pitching." He mentioned free agency; remember at the deadline he adamantly refused to trade prospects.

 

Times may be changing: Sam also told the truth today. When asked to agree with Pedro Martinez, who said Bello's stuff was better than his own Hall of Fame arsenal, Sam said... "No."

[mvp 78]

To be honest, I don't know who is behind this 5+ year plan that seems to be in place.

 

 

Stop! I think originally it was 3-4 years, then 4-5, then 5. Now 5+????

[moonslav59]

The thing is -- as a few posters love to type everyday -- none of us know for sure just how much control Bloom has or doesn't have over investing in player acquisitions via spending budget money or prospect capital through trades... except maybe what it costs for minimum transactions to get AAAA relievers DFAed by other clubs (for those guys, at least we THINK Bloom has total control).

 

Ultimately, the failures of this organization are on Upper Management -- which includes both the front office and ownership.

 

Sam Kennedy said today that going forward the Red Sox need "pitching, pitching, pitching." He mentioned free agency; remember at the deadline he adamantly refused to trade prospects.

 

Times may be changing: Sam also told the truth today. When asked to agree with Pedro Martinez, who said Bello's stuff was better than his own Hall of Fame arsenal, Sam said... "No."

 

Even if it is all on upper management, I'm not at the place where I want them replaced with some unknown new ownership group.

 

I doubt we can do better than 4 rings in 2 decades.

 

I'm not happy with the recent results, but I am cutting them more slack than some, it seems.

[mvp 78]

Even if it is all on upper management, I'm not at the place where I want them replaced with some unknown new ownership group.

 

I doubt we can do better than 4 rings in 2 decades.

 

I'm not happy with the recent results, but I am cutting them more slack than some, it seems.

 

They could have had 5 if they kept Mookie.

[moonslav59]

Stop! I think originally it was 3-4 years, then 4-5, then 5. Now 5+????

 

I do think they felt we'd be better than this, by now. I'm not sure they were thinking ring in '23 (a 4 year plan.)

 

I'm not sure we can count 2020 as a year of any plan, because they did nothing to improve the long term outlook, except maybe add Pivetta, but surely 2020 should count.

 

It's been nearly 4 full seasons, now. Next year is 5. I mentioned 6 years, because I have no idea, if they plan on "going for it" in 2024. I think they have a strong enough foundation to do it, and that would be a 4-5 year plans, but I give up trying to project what the Eff these guys are thinking.

 

I'm not "for" a 6 year plan..

[moonslav59]

They could have had 5 if they kept Mookie.

 

I have always felt we should have kept Betts.

 

Had we just replaced his and half Prices budget space, not to mention Porcello and others, it might not have been 5, either.

[mvp 78]

I do think they felt we'd be better than this, by now. I'm not sure they were thinking ring in '23 (a 4 year plan.)

 

I'm not sure we can count 2020 as a year of any plan, because they did nothing to improve the long term outlook, except maybe add Pivetta, but surely 2020 should count.

 

It's been nearly 4 full seasons, now. Next year is 5. I mentioned 6 years, because I have no idea, if they plan on "going for it" in 2024. I think they have a strong enough foundation to do it, and that would be a 4-5 year plans, but I give up trying to project what the Eff these guys are thinking.

 

I'm not "for" a 6 year plan..

 

2020 counts because they used it to get under the CBT by trading Mookie, Price and a bunch of other expiring contracts (Pillar, Mitch, Hembree, etc.). The prospects they got back didn't really pan out though (aside from Wong, but that took several years).

[cukes]

I have always felt we should have kept Betts.

 

Had we just replaced his and half Prices budget space, not to mention Porcello and others, it might not have been 5, either.

 

There are some good players on this team but times you feel they are down in the dumps, no morale no front office support laying idle and bringing in stiffs and juggling them back and forth, nobody wants to admit it but all around management is weak, we do not play good fundamental ball and do not try to enhance our weaknesses, I don 't even want to mention the Rays with no fan support, no payroll so it's not just spending, great scouts and without question a super manager, starting pitching injuries

[Maxbialystock]

They could have had 5 if they kept Mookie.

 

Horsehockey. The 2018 Sox were the best Sox team ever, but the 2019 team disintegrated because the pitching did--and the pitching has yet to recover.

 

moonslav has made a strong case that the Sox have always been lousy at developing pitching and therefore went out and "bought" pitching. That reached a peak when DD bought/traded for Price, Sale, Eovaldi, Kimbrel, and maybe a couple others for the 2018 team. But, then the 2019 team--which still had almost everyone, including Mookie, from 2018 except Kimbrel--collapsed.

 

I'm almost certain JH then said, "never again," by which he meant no more long term contracts for starters. He also fired DD and hired CB.

 

Mookie is a fantastic player. Heck, this year he's even played SS and 2B. But he can't pitch. The Angels have two fantastic players in Ohtani and Mike Trout, and they can't even make the postseason.

[Bellhorn04]

Stop! I think originally it was 3-4 years, then 4-5, then 5. Now 5+????

 

That really is a filthy little + sign.