8/25 Dodgers @ SOX 7:10PM ET

[dgalehouse]

To echo Notin's post earlier, Roberts would have countered with a RH Chris Taylor.

 

As I said above, I don't think Roberts would have pinch hit for Muncy , but we will never know. I do think the pitching change should have been made regardless.

[iortiz]

As I said above, I don't think Roberts would have pinch hit for Muncy , but we will never know. I do think the pitching change should have been made regardless.

 

Yup, Pivetta was done anyways.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Do you honestly think this team is well coached and trained, beyond how it was built?

 

I feel that mental and physical errors are on the players, especially mental errors. Setting up a player to fail by employing him at a position he isn't used to, well, that falls on either the manager or general manager.

Also, there are players(Devers, for example) who are not very good defensively, and probably never will be, but the manager has to keep them in the line-up because of their bat.

Edited August 26, 2023 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[jgar658]

This is not the first time Wong makes a stupid base running error.

As I watched Pivetta it was obvious he was out of gas. Bad on Cora.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It is possible the SOX have too many players who are just uncoachable.

 

This post deserves discussion. In a way, it can be a reflection or indictment of our revolving roster. The front office constantly acquires players -- often relievers -- off waiver wires, and every once in awhile it hits on finding a guy who makes an adjustment to become a contributing member of a big league staff.

 

But there are reasons such players are DFAed. It's like walking into a singles bar and looking twice at a few lookers -- caution: there are always reasons those patrons are available...

[redsoxrules]

This is not the first time Wong makes a stupid base running error.

As I watched Pivetta it was obvious he was out of gas. Bad on Cora.

 

Pivetta wasn't gassed. He just sucked.

[moonslav59]

Do you honestly think this team is well coached and trained, beyond how it was built?

 

I don't think the best coaching in the world would have gotten better results, unless that coaching started when our players were in little league and all through their lives.

[moonslav59]

The truth of the matter isn't coachable or uncoachable; it's the fact that some players have more baseball smarts than others. I don't know if that can be taught.

That's true in all sports and even in non-sports related jobs.

 

It should be something recognizable and sought after by the scouts and GM, right?

[moonslav59]

It’s a yes or no answer. You don’t need to do an assessment.

 

Yes, or no: did this team do better than you expected?

 

Short answer follow up: was it blind luck or could the coaches and manager have something to do with them "playing over their heads?"

[moonslav59]

Pivetta wasn't gassed. He just sucked.

 

He has not been used with just one day rest, since he was more of a short RP'er.

 

He pitched 2 nights ago. I'm not sure if that made a difference, or not.

[iortiz]

Yes, or no: did this team do better than you expected?

 

Short answer follow up: was it blind luck or could the coaches and manager have something to do with them "playing over their heads?"

 

Honestly, this team is what I expected since they one: mediocre, but looking at the schedule ahead they could end up under 500 though.

 

Said that, their lack of fundamentals, defense and coaching are taxing them badly this year. Yesterday’s bad decisions from the bench and poor fundamentals made us lose another game. Devers nor Turner are Ted Williams to hit a 3-0 pitch mostly with men on bases and nobody out, and when the opp pitcher lacks of command, but again, seems like Cora let them do what they pleased to do. There’s no authority nor coaching in that bench. They are like pals to him. There’s no a line.

Edited August 26, 2023 by iortiz

[Bellhorn04]

Honestly, this team is what I expected since they one: mediocre, but looking at the schedule ahead they could end up under 500 though.

 

Said that, their lack of fundamentals, defense and coaching is taxing them badly this year. Yesterday’s bad decisions from the bench, poor fundamentals made us lose another game. Devers nor Turner are Ted Williams to hit a 3-0 pitch mostly with men on bases and nobody out, and when the opp pitcher lacks of command, but again, seems like Cora let them do what they pleased to do. There’s no authority nor coaching in that bench. They are like pals to him. There’s no a line.

 

Disagree. He has benched Verdugo and called him out publicly. He's a player's manager but he's not a pushover.

[iortiz]

Disagree. He has benched Verdugo and called him out publicly. He's a player's manager but he's not a pushover.

 

A flower doesn’t make a spring.

[Bellhorn04]

A flower doesn’t make a spring.

 

I get what you're saying. This Red Sox team has made a crazy number of gaffes. OTOH they have shown a lot of resilience, bouncing back from bad stretches and staying in the hunt. And that reflects well on Cora's abilities as a motivator. Players may be trying too hard to make things happen, that kind of thing.

[iortiz]

I get what you're saying. This Red Sox team has made a crazy number of gaffes. OTOH they have shown a lot of resilience, bouncing back from bad stretches and staying in the hunt. And that reflects well on Cora's abilities as a motivator. Players may be trying too hard to make things happen, that kind of thing.

 

A mental error is on a player but when it comes over and over again in most of your players of your team, it is on the coaching staff, and don’t let me start at decision making at game situations like yesterday.

 

This coaching staff is a disaster.

 

A bush team plays better fundamentals than this Red Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

A mental error is on a player but when it comes over and over again in most of your players of your team, it is on the coaching staff, and don’t let me start at decision making at game situations like yesterday.

 

This coaching staff is a disaster.

 

A bush team plays better fundamentals than this Red Sox.

 

As another poster pointed out, Bloom put this roster together, and we have a lot of inexperienced players and a lot of guys coming and going. And guys who simply aren't good fielders.

 

I don't see why Cora should be the one who takes all the heat for it. He has very limited say over the roster.

 

Duran improved a lot over last year, shouldn't the coaching get some credit for that?

 

I realize nothing I say is going to change your view, I'm mainly just posting this for the sake of others reading.

[moonslav59]

A mental error is on a player but when it comes over and over again in most of your players of your team, it is on the coaching staff....

 

No, that beef should be with the GM, scouts and those making the roster personnel decisions.

 

There is not much that coaching can do for 22-36 year olds. It can help, but I see it very differently. When it's everyone making mistakes, there is less chance for coaching to make a difference and less reason to blame them.

 

For some reason we choose players without several fundamental skills or "the smarts."

[redsoxrules]

I don't blame Cora for all these mental mistakes. Players in the MLB should know how to run basses properly as you learn that as a kid. Players with these mental lapse just shows how the player is. When a player does this on multiple occasion then obviously it's on him.

 

This is all on Bloom and not Cora. That's how I see it. Bloom is the one who constructed this roster with these Players who appear to have a lot of mental lapse

[Maxbialystock]

I blame the first base coach for Wong overrunning 2b. After the game, Wong and Cora were both interviewed by the sportswriters and both said it was Wong's fault. However, neither mentioned the first base coach, nor was he interviewed. So I'm convinced they were covering for him.

 

That situation--2 outs, men on 1st and 2d, Dugo at bat with Devers behind him, 8th inning--cried out for first base coach involvement. What the hell is he out there for if not to remind his pinch runner (Wong) that 1) he should go on any hit ball, 2) but with slowpoke Casas in front of him, he should not make an aggressive turn at 2b until he knows Casas is heading for home, 3) getting to 2b would load the bases for Devers.

 

Lots of times, I agree, baserunners need to make decisions on their own based on what they see and can anticipate. Not always easy, but doable. But this was different and cried out for first base coach involvement because, with two outs Wong needs to run on anything, but on the other hand he must be cautious at 2b because of slowpoke Casas, to say nothing of the rifle arm (Mookie) now in right field.

 

To me there is absolutely no way, no how the first base coach did any of the above and Wong simply ignored him or forgot what he said.

[moonslav59]

I don't blame Cora for all these mental mistakes. Players in the MLB should know how to run basses properly as you learn that as a kid. Players with these mental lapse just shows how the player is. When a player does this on multiple occasion then obviously it's on him.

 

This is all on Bloom and not Cora. That's how I see it. Bloom is the one who constructed this roster with these Players who appear to have a lot of mental lapse

 

How much practice time during ST'ing and the season do most teams spend on teaching or reinforcing the basic fundamentals of this great game of baseball? My guess is, there is not a wide differential between team to team. Maybe some teams present it in better ways, so their players learn it better or it stays in their mind enough to improve the outcomes during the season?

 

In little league and high school, yes, maybe it makes a significant difference how much effort you put into this. Also, remember, there is only a finite amount of time you have with these guys, so when they are working on fundamentals, they are not working on conditioning, batting, pitching and improving other skills.

 

I agree, These guys have played a lot of baseball over their lifetimes. If they don't know what to do rounding 2nd base with 2 outs in a very crucial game, where one out ends our hopes for a win, there is nobody to blame but the player.

[moonslav59]

I blame the first base coach for Wong overrunning 2b. After the game, Wong and Cora were both interviewed by the sportswriters and both said it was Wong's fault. However, neither mentioned the first base coach, nor was he interviewed. So I'm convinced they were covering for him.

 

That situation--2 outs, men on 1st and 2d, Dugo at bat with Devers behind him, 8th inning--cried out for first base coach involvement. What the hell is he out there for if not to remind his pinch runner (Wong) that 1) he should go on any hit ball, 2) but with slowpoke Casas in front of him, he should not make an aggressive turn at 2b until he knows Casas is heading for home, 3) getting to 2b would load the bases for Devers.

 

Lots of times, I agree, baserunners need to make decisions on their own based on what they see and can anticipate. Not always easy, but doable. But this was different and cried out for first base coach involvement because, with two outs Wong needs to run on anything, but on the other hand he must be cautious at 2b because of slowpoke Casas, to say nothing of the rifle arm (Mookie) now in right field.

 

To me there is absolutely no way, no how the first base coach did any of the above and Wong simply ignored him or forgot what he said.

 

I thought you agreed, yesterday, it was not the 1B coach's fault.

 

BTW, they did not ask the 1B coach or ask Cora or Wong about the 1B coach, because they know it had nothing to do with him.

 

No way any 1B coach in MLB says that whole script you said needed to be told to Wong. No way. it's something that is understood, or in Wong's case, should have been. It goes without saying: you don't run into the 3rd out with bases loaded in a come from behind attempt.

 

I know you love Wong. I do, too, but he Eff'd up, badly, Period.

Edited August 27, 2023 by moonslav59

[Maxbialystock]

I thought you agreed, yesterday, it was not the 1B coach's fault.

 

BTW, they did not ask the 1B coach or ask Cora or Wong about the 1B coach, because they know it had nothing to do with him.

 

No way any 1B coach in MLB says that whole script you said needed to be told to Wong. No way. it's something that is understood, or in Wong's case, should have been. It goes without saying: you don't run into the 3rd out with bases loaded in a come from behind attempt.

 

I know you love Wong. I do, too, but he Eff'd up, badly, Period.

 

I was being facetious/sarcastic.

 

Please answer this very simple question. Why do the Sox (and all other MLB teams) have a first base coach if not to communicate with the baserunner on first base should there be an opportunity to do so as there in fact was?

 

The fact that you agree it was not a simple situation--Wong needed to move with alacrity on any hit ball but then needed to be cautious because Casas is slow--cries out for the first base coach to say something. But you insist that nothing of the kind was needed--or, if it was, it was nevertheless too complicated to communicate "two outs, so run on anything, but round 2d base cautiously unless you know Casas is going home."

[moonslav59]

I was being facetious/sarcastic.

 

Please answer this very simple question. Why do the Sox (and all other MLB teams) have a first base coach if not to communicate with the baserunner on first base should there be an opportunity to do so as there in fact was?

 

The fact that you agree it was not a simple situation--Wong needed to move with alacrity on any hit ball but then needed to be cautious because Casas is slow--cries out for the first base coach to say something. But you insist that nothing of the kind was needed--or, if it was, it was nevertheless too complicated to communicate "two outs, so run on anything, but round 2d base cautiously unless you know Casas is going home."

 

I'm pretty sure our 1B coach said and did what every 1B coach does in these situations. That's why his name never came up in the talk about the play.

 

I'm sure he told Wong, "There's two outs. Run on contact." The rest was up to Wong and maybe the 3B coach.

 

Did he, or should he have added, "but be careful and don't get thrown out at 2B, because you have a slow runner in front of him?"

 

1. Maybe he said it.

2. I'm not sure that needs to be said, everytime it comes up.

3. Said or not, it was 100% Wong's fault.

[iortiz]

No, that beef should be with the GM, scouts and those making the roster personnel decisions.

 

There is not much that coaching can do for 22-36 year olds. It can help, but I see it very differently. When it's everyone making mistakes, there is less chance for coaching to make a difference and less reason to blame them.

 

For some reason we choose players without several fundamental skills or "the smarts."

 

You are wrong. These are MLB players who have been in the business for a while. Aside Devers who is a lost cause at defense since day one, most of them are at least average with the glove.

[iortiz]

As another poster pointed out, Bloom put this roster together, and we have a lot of inexperienced players and a lot of guys coming and going. And guys who simply aren't good fielders.

 

I don't see why Cora should be the one who takes all the heat for it. He has very limited say over the roster.

 

Duran improved a lot over last year, shouldn't the coaching get some credit for that?

 

I realize nothing I say is going to change your view, I'm mainly just posting this for the sake of others reading.

 

No problem mate. I don’t see it the same way though. IMO Cora has to be taxed with a big chunk of the accountability for this 2023 disaster at fundamentals and defense.

[Bellhorn04]

No problem mate. I don’t see it the same way though. IMO Cora has to be taxed with a big chunk of the accountability for this 2023 disaster at fundamentals and defense.

 

I put most of it on Bloom for assembling a hodgepodge of a roster. And things like starting the season without a shortstop.

[iortiz]

I put most of it on Bloom for assembling a hodgepodge of a roster. And things like starting the season without a shortstop.

 

Bloom is responsible for being an all-in-all mediocre team, not that much for playing poor fundamentals. As I said, in the end these are MLB players after all.