7/21 Mets @ SOX game 2 7:10PM ET

[d-money]

Complete shitshow finally over and the good guys win!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

If Masa can get there, he will catch it.

[moonslav59]

Which distant year in the future are you expecting the SOX to be WS contenders.

 

I expected we might be, this year.

 

I hope we don't sell, this deadline.

 

If we do, I'll be hoping for 2024. Maybe the reset gets JH to think the same way and spend large, this winter.

[moonslav59]

That was some scary s***!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

This is the 2nd game recently where Cora has had to bring in the closer after having a significant lead in the 9th.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I expected we might be, this year.

 

I hope we don't sell, this deadline.

 

If we do, I'll be hoping for 2024. Maybe the reset gets JH to think the same way and spend large, this winter.

 

I only asked because trading a proven starter like Paxton for a pitching prospect sounds like you're willing to wait for a while.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Paxton is one of the most injury prone pitchers in the league. Verlander and Scherzer have been consistently GREAT and durable the entirety of their careers. Both are HOF locks for a reason. Paxton just doesn’t have that resume or consistency

 

This is true, but what I posted was Paxton is younger than those two and is having a better season. And he won't cost the SOX 43 mil/yr for two years.

[Jasonbay44]

This is true, but what I posted was Paxton is younger than those two and is having a better season. And he won't cost the SOX 43 mil/yr for two years.

 

I was thinking he’d get a deal similar to Eovaldi

[moonslav59]

They've had a problem with clean-up relievers, which begs the question "how bad really is the pitching on the farm?"

 

We've used 28 pitchers, including 21 with 8 or more IP.

 

We have 13 capable pitchers and no scrubs would be needed, but too many concurrent injuries have forced too many Grazas and Jacques to be used in these type of situations.

 

We've been using depth pitchers for our depth pitchers. We've been going with 2-3 starters for a while, now and counting on 2 pen games every 5 days. I'm kind of amazed we are still in it working with smoke and mirrors on our staff. My hope is some, not likely all, of our injured pitchers will come back and stay healthy, and we no longer see these guys again, this year.

 

Ideal 13 Man staff:

 

SP: Bello, Paxton, Sale, Crawford, Houck

Middle RP: Pivetta, Whitlock, Winckowski

Short RP: Jansen, Martin, Schreiber, Joely, Bernardino

 

Pitchers I would prefer over Garza, Jacques, Gudino, Ort and maybe a couple others:

Murphy

Walter

Bleier

Maybe even Kluber

(Kelly will not be back.)

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I was thinking he’d get a deal similar to Eovaldi

 

That would be more than fair. Prior to his injuries Paxton had a very good pitching resume and it doesn't look like he's lost a step so far this season.

[moonslav59]

I only asked because trading a proven starter like Paxton for a pitching prospect sounds like you're willing to wait for a while.

 

I did not say I wanted that trade. I just the only way we get a pitcher by trading Paxton is if the pitcher is a prospect.

 

The only teams wanting Paxton are contenders not willing to give up a ML SP'er.

 

I'm not for trading Paxton.

 

I gave up on last year's team and wanted a fire sale, but not this year.

 

Besides, we only have Paxton to trade, this year, for anything useful.

 

If we go on a losing streak, maybe my mind will change by AUG 1st, but I'm still all in on this team.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

We've used 28 pitchers, including 21 with 8 or more IP.

 

We have 13 capable pitchers and no scrubs would be needed, but too many concurrent injuries have forced too many Grazas and Jacques to be used in these type of situations.

 

We've been using depth pitchers for our depth pitchers. We've been going with 2-3 starters for a while, now and counting on 2 pen games every 5 days. I'm kind of amazed we are still in it working with smoke and mirrors on our staff. My hope is some, not likely all, of our injured pitchers will come back and stay healthy, and we no longer see these guys again, this year.

 

Ideal 13 Man staff:

 

SP: Bello, Paxton, Sale, Crawford, Houck

Middle RP: Pivetta, Whitlock, Winckowski

Short RP: Jansen, Martin, Schreiber, Joely, Bernardino

 

Pitchers I would prefer over Garza, Jacques, Gudino, Ort and maybe a couple others:

Murphy

Walter

Bleier

Maybe even Kluber

(Kelly will not be back.)

 

I thought I'd heard Schreiber would be back before now. Has he suffered a set back?

[illinoisredsox]

Anyone here know the status of Schreiber?

 

Castiglione and Flemming have been saying he could be back and active tomorrow (Sunday).

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I did not say I wanted that trade. I just the only way we get a pitcher by trading Paxton is if the pitcher is a prospect.

 

The only teams wanting Paxton are contenders not willing to give up a ML SP'er.

 

I'm not for trading Paxton.

 

I gave up on last year's team and wanted a fire sale, but not this year.

 

Besides, we only have Paxton to trade, this year, for anything useful.

 

If we go on a losing streak, maybe my mind will change by AUG 1st, but I'm still all in on this team.

 

We're on the same page, MOON, except even if the SOX do falter before the TDL, I would still try to re-sign Paxton.

[Jasonbay44]

Castiglione and Flemming have been saying he could be back and active tomorrow (Sunday).

 

That would be a huge boost

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Castiglione and Flemming have been saying he could be back and active tomorrow (Sunday).

 

Thanks for the info.

[moonslav59]

That would be more than fair. Prior to his injuries Paxton had a very good pitching resume and it doesn't look like he's lost a step so far this season.

 

Paxton's injury history makes Nate look like an iron man.

 

Nate missed the 2017 season, but pitched 585 innings in the previous 4 seasons.

He pitched in 479 in the previous 3 seasons.

Even if you factor in 0 IP for 2017, he pitched:

111 IP previous 2 years

236 IP previous 3 years

390 IP previous 4 years

590 IP previous 5 years (2013-2018 before the extension)

696 IP previous 6 years

 

Paxton missed last year, just like Nate missed 2017 before the 2019 season. His previous IP:

1.1 IP previous 2 years

22 IP previous 3 years

172 IP previous 4 years

332 IP previous 5 years

468 IP previous 6 years

 

It's apples to oranges.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

We're on the same page, MOON, except even if the SOX do falter before the TDL, I would still try to re-sign Paxton.

 

I'm not so sure he isn't Freakin' Chris Sale's twin.

 

We could also trade Paxton then re-sign him, but that is a rare bird.

[moonslav59]

I thought I'd heard Schreiber would be back before now. Has he suffered a set back?

 

 

I have Scheiber in my 13.

 

He's supposed to be called up for tomorrow's game.

 

Sale, Houck and Whitlock should be back, too, but maybe not until August 10-20th, and then we don't know how good they will be.

 

Schreiber should send Garza to AAA.

 

The next guy back sends Jacques down.

 

The next 1-2 send down a decent pitcher like Murphy or Bernardino, or we trade or DFA Joely or Bleier.

[vegasbob]

Thanks for getting the win Splinter ! I had to go out with my wife tonight or you would have learned a lot more dugout secrets about how the Sox win at MLB baseball.

[Hugh2]

I’m all for keeping the band together and going for it. But if you’re even thinking of selling you have to listen to offers on Paxton. He’s your best trade chip, realistically speaking. He’s already pitched more Innings this year than the last few years combined so how much more can he give this season.

 

It could be the ultimate sell high. Or not, which is why he will command a good return. Teams overpay handsomely at the deadline for quality pitching.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Paxton is the Red Sox' best trade deadline chip of the Bloom Era. Chaim should be holding out right now for someone's starting pitching prospect -- as legitimate contenders have been known to deal -- like when the trend-setting, ringless Rays gave up Joe Ryan for an over-40 DH.

 

Someone mentioned instead giving Paxton an Eovaldi contract... why would anyone think Boston would do that, after pulling such an offer from a more-proven, two-time postseason hero?

 

It may be unreasonable to hang hopes on all the injured players returning and playing well enough to boost the Sox into the playoffs, but if everything goes just right -- that's the mantra of 2023 -- then they should still be able to make it without Paxton, who was just a rumor going into the season.

[moonslav59]

Paxton is the Red Sox' best trade deadline chip of the Bloom Era.

 

I’m assuming you mean his own acquisition, as Betts, Bogey and Nate could have all been better deadline chips, had he and JH chosen to trade them at that time.

[d-money]

I have Scheiber in my 13.

 

He's supposed to be called up for tomorrow's game.

 

Sale, Houck and Whitlock should be back, too, but maybe not until August 10-20th, and then we don't know how good they will be.

 

Schreiber should send Garza to AAA.

 

The next guy back sends Jacques down.

 

The next 1-2 send down a decent pitcher like Murphy or Bernardino, or we trade or DFA Joely or Bleier.

 

August 10-20 is a long way especially when you’re just 8.5 games out. That’s not good news. It’s always something with this team.

[d-money]

Paxton is the Red Sox' best trade deadline chip of the Bloom Era. Chaim should be holding out right now for someone's starting pitching prospect -- as legitimate contenders have been known to deal -- like when the trend-setting, ringless Rays gave up Joe Ryan for an over-40 DH.

 

Someone mentioned instead giving Paxton an Eovaldi contract... why would anyone think Boston would do that, after pulling such an offer from a more-proven, two-time postseason hero?

 

It may be unreasonable to hang hopes on all the injured players returning and playing well enough to boost the Sox into the playoffs, but if everything goes just right -- that's the mantra of 2023 -- then they should still be able to make it without Paxton, who was just a rumor going into the season.

 

Shouldn’t they be buyers? If they trade Paxton being less than 7 games out they’re basically given up on the season point blank!! That won’t sit well with fans.

[notin]

We're on the same page, MOON, except even if the SOX do falter before the TDL, I would still try to re-sign Paxton.

 

Very short term and don’t count on him. The Sox signed Paxton nineteen months ago and so far he’s pitched all of 12 games. Durability was not part of his past and is therefore very unlikely to be part of his future.

 

I’d trade him and still buy this off-season. The dumbest plan of all involves buying while counting on Paxton, especially after one year after the Sox went buying after counting on Eovaldi…

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

So if my understanding is correct, whether the SOX are still in the PO hunt or not, instead of going after a proven starting pitcher, the SOX should trade a proven starting pitcher for a pitching prospect. Well, if they are in the PO race at the time, that kind of trade would end that drama and the SOX can return to their cellar apartment long term, where it's actually cooler than a more expensive higher up apartment.

[d-money]

So if my understanding is correct, whether the SOX are still in the PO hunt or not, instead of going after a proven starting pitcher, the SOX should trade a proven starting pitcher for a pitching prospect. Well, if they are in the PO race at the time, that kind of trade would end that drama and the SOX can return to their cellar apartment long term, where it's actually cooler than a more expensive higher up apartment.

 

Yes i wouldn’t want them to quit on the season for sure also it doesn’t have to bee a great starter. Could be Giolito or someone else .

[moonslav59]

Yes i wouldn’t want them to quit on the season for sure also it doesn’t have to bee a great starter. Could be Giolito or someone else .

 

I think we will trade for Giolito or Stroman, maybe Montgomery or the like. We may also sell onDuvall and go with Ref and Kike as Rh’d OF depth. We may also trade away somebody they do not see in our long term plans (Dalbec or rule 5 to be guy like Perales) or one who looks like a sell high guy (Murphy or Walter?)

[d-money]

I think we will trade for Giolito or Stroman, maybe Montgomery or the like. We may also sell onDuvall and go with Ref and Kike as Rh’d OF depth. We may also trade away somebody they do not see in our long term plans (Dalbec or rule 5 to be guy like Perales) or one who looks like a sell high guy (Murphy or Walter?)

 

 

The way giolito is pitching they might get him for a bag of chips.