How will the Red Sox do?

[Old Red]

Yay, this team is more talented than the 2020 team. If that doesn't get your motor running, nothing will.

 

Well it’s not a sellout today, and that’s not a good sign.

[moonslav59]

The rotation on Opening Day was:

 

1. Eovaldi

2. Martin Perez

3. Ryan Weber

4. Josh Osich

5. Matt Hall

 

The bullpen featured Austin Brice, Robert Stock, and Kyle Hart.

 

By season’s end, many of us thought Chris Mazza might be good. He wasn’t good. He also wasn’t Zack Godley, so we thought he might be…

 

The opening day starting line-up:

 

1. Beni LF

2. JD DH

3. Devers 3B

4. Bogey SS

5. Pillar RF

6. Vaz C

7. Chavis 1B

8. JBJ CF

9. Peraza 2B

 

2023 is so much better, on paper, than 2020, it's not even up for discussion.

 

Many had bad thoughts about the 2021 line-up and roster to start the year.

1. Kike was bashed until July for being lead-off.

2. Verdugo was in Mookie's shadow, still.

3. JD was coming off a rough 2020 season.

4. Bogey was about to have 2 straight "down years," but on opening day, we were pumped up.

5. Devers

6. Renfroe was largely unknown and sucked almost all April.

7. Marwin freaking Gonzalez? LOL

8. Vaz was coming off a decent 2020.

9. Dalbec

 

Our first 5 GS'd: Nate, Houck, Richards, Pivetta & Perez

 

 

 

[Old Red]

The opening day starting line-up:

 

1. Beni LF

2. JD DH

3. Devers 3B

4. Bogey SS

5. Pillar RF

6. Vaz C

7. Chavis 1B

8. JBJ CF

9. Peraza 2B

 

2023 is so much better, on paper, than 2020, it's not even up for discussion.

 

Many had bad thoughts about the 2021 line-up and roster to start the year.

1. Kike was bashed until July for being lead-off.

2. Verdugo was in Mookie's shadow, still.

3. JD was coming off a rough 2020 season.

4. Bogey was about to have 2 straight "down years," but on opening day, we were pumped up.

5. Devers

6. Renfroe was largely unknown and sucked almost all April.

7. Marwin freaking Gonzalez? LOL

8. Vaz was coming off a decent 2020.

9. Dalbec

 

Our first 5 GS'd: Nate, Houck, Richards, Pivetta & Perez

 

 

 

 

You have your opinion, and others like Tomase has theirs, so yes it is open for discussion. I myself don’t really care what anything on paper says, and if the standard for this team to open the season is to compare it to the 2020 team to open the season than Bloom has done one hell of a job. Show me results, and not what’s on paper. Lots of times they don’t come close to matching.

[moonslav59]

We’ve already established that the pitching on the 2020 team sucked, but the lineup to start the season, which was the main point had plenty of talent.

 

Nobody said "no talent:" they said less talent.

 

Worse O

 

Worse Pitching

 

Look at the bottom 5 of that line-up:

 

1. Beni LF

2. JD DH

3. Devers 3B

4. Bogey SS

5. Pillar RF

6. Vaz C

7. Chavis 1B

8. JBJ CF

9. Peraza 2B

 

This year's line-up may be... (Story and Mondesi out)

 

1. Verdugo

2. Devers

3. Turner

4. Yoshida

5. Duvall

6. Casas

7. Arroyo

8. McGuire

9. Kike

 

(Add Story and the O is way better, but going by just opening day talent, I still like 2023 better than 2020 and close to how I felt going into 2021.

 

[moonslav59]

You have your opinion, and others like Tomase has theirs, so yes it is open for discussion. I myself don’t really care what anything on paper says, and if the standard for this team to open the season is to compare it to the 2020 team to open the season than Bloom has done one hell of a job. Show me results, and not what’s on paper. Lots of times they don’t come close to matching.

 

So, you like the 2020 opening day roster better than 2023.

 

Noted and WOW!

[Old Red]

Nobody said "no talent:" they said less talent.

 

Worse O

 

Worse Pitching

 

Look at the bottom 5 of that line-up:

 

1. Beni LF

2. JD DH

3. Devers 3B

4. Bogey SS

5. Pillar RF

6. Vaz C

7. Chavis 1B

8. JBJ CF

9. Peraza 2B

 

This year's line-up may be... (Story and Mondesi out)

 

1. Verdugo

2. Devers

3. Turner

4. Yoshida

5. Duvall

6. Casas

7. Arroyo

8. McGuire

9. Kike

 

(Add Story and the O is way better, but going by just opening day talent, I still like 2023 better than 2020 and close to how I felt going into 2021.

 

 

I was only the messenger.

[Old Red]

So, you like the 2020 opening day roster better than 2023.

 

Noted and WOW!

 

Where did I say I liked the 2020 team better to START the season. Would I rather have Bogey, JD, and Vaz at those ages? Yes I would.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2020 does not count?

 

Unbeaten in April, May and June! It was a warped year -- start-stop-start-flop -- but there should've been more hope for the '20 Sox, whose position players had an average age of 27.1, with only one over 30 (the DH), and a pitching staff avg. age of 28.9.

 

But the whole summer was such a downer from the beginning, with Mookie in LA, Sale in surgery, ERod in isolation, and cardboard fans in the stands. The injuries that fake season seemed like products of pros unprepared for awkward ramping up, down, and up again.

 

This year, most injuries will happen because guys are just old.

[moonslav59]

I was only the messenger.

 

You did say you think it is up for discussion, so it sounds like you think his position has merit.

 

I don't. That's my opinion as well as thinking there is no point to discuss the merits.

[moonslav59]

Where did I say I liked the 2020 team better to START the season. Would I rather have Bogey, JD, and Vaz at those ages? Yes I would.

 

So, 3 out of 9 batters and maybe Nate. Got it.

[Old Red]

You did say you think it is up for discussion, so it sounds like you think his position has merit.

 

I don't. That's my opinion as well as thinking there is no point to discuss the merits.

 

Opinions are always up for discussion. Everyone has a different way of looking at things. To me results is what matters.

[Old Red]

So, 3 out of 9 batters and maybe Nate. Got it.

 

That about covers it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

To be fair, entering '20, Vazquez was coming off a 23-homer, .798 season, '19 Pillar hit 21 HRs for the Giants, and the Sox were starting a youngster at first base who hit 18 dingers his rookie year. And it turned out Bradley -- who had 21 longballs in '19 -- actually had a decent 55-game summer: .283, .814...

 

It was all about the pitching -- or what pretended to be.

[notin]

Opinions are always up for discussion. Everyone has a different way of looking at things. To me results is what matters.

 

Then why did you post Tomase’s opinion?

[moonslav59]

To be fair, entering '20, Vazquez was coming off a 23-homer, .798 season, '19 Pillar hit 21 HRs for the Giants, and the Sox were starting a youngster at first base who hit 18 dingers his rookie year. And it turned out Bradley -- who had 21 longballs in '19 -- actually had a decent 55-game summer: .283, .814...

 

It was all about the pitching -- or what pretended to be.

 

Why only list dingers?

 

Beni was coming off a .774 OPS season in 2019- no0t bad, but not great. JBJ was .738.

Pillar had a .719 OPS in 2019.

Peraza .631

Vaz had a very nice 2019 season, but nobody knew which Vaz was going to show up in 2020:

.602 2014-2016

.735 in 2017

.540 in 2018

.798 in 2019

 

Chavis and Marwin? lmao!

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Then why did you post Tomase’s opinion?

 

...and then go on to give info and comments that supports his position.

[moonslav59]

Opinions are always up for discussion. Everyone has a different way of looking at things. To me results is what matters.

 

And the previous results of the players on the opening day 26 man roster in 2020 were way worse than 2023's. Not even close. Not worth discussing, although one can discuss anything they wish. Why you chose this is a wonder.

[Old Red]

...and then go on to give info and comments that supports his position.

Surprise, surprise you don’t like other opinions that don’t match yours, and your heel tag team partner. I get Tomase’s opinion, and I get yours, and my only input was to say the 2020 team had plenty of talent in the lineup, and if on paper to start the season is not as good as what’s on paper for the 2023 team to start the season looks like to me there is differing opinions, and by being so is certainly up for debate. You saying it is not is just an opinion in itself. We can go two ways with this to keep the discussion of differing opinions going, or move on, and I choose to move on.

[Elktonnick]

This team will score runs but defensively they are the weakest Sox team in years.

Barring significant acquisitions we will see catchable fly balls become singles, singles doubles, and doubles triples. The infield has Arroyo who likely will spend significant time on the IL and Kike Hernandez who is a better Centerfielder than SS and he was mediocre centerfielder..

The rotation is still injury prone and Sale will likely spend considerable time once again on the IL and the bullpen still is questionable to down right sucks. Their closer Jansen has a heart condition who left a ST game because of dehydration when the air temp was only 74.

After watching their ST games I came to the conclusion this team is worse than the 2022 edition and will likely win 78 to 80 games only because they are playing a weaker schedule.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I didn't start this discussion, either, but the 2020 Red Sox line-up -- which thankfully tanked enough to net us Mayer -- opened with seven guys who were part of the greatest team ever.

 

The 2023 opens today with exactly two regulars who played full seasons at a position last year: Verdugo and Devers.

 

Hopes are still high that Turner will lead with a full, productive year at DH, Kike-Arroyo-Duvall will have bounce-back, injury-free campaigns, and McGuire can be a big league starter for an entire season.

 

If you're a realist instead of an optimist, and say those are too many Ifs, then at least get excited to enjoy watching Casas and Yoshida evolve as MLBers...

[moonslav59]

Surprise, surprise you don’t like other opinions that don’t match yours, and your heel tag team partner. I get Tomase’s opinion, and I get yours, and my only input was to say the 2020 team had plenty of talent in the lineup, and if on paper to start the season is not as good as what’s on paper for the 2023 team to start the season looks like to me there is differing opinions, and by being so is certainly up for debate. You saying it is not is just an opinion in itself. We can go two ways with this to keep the discussion of differing opinions going, or move on, and I choose to move on.

 

I'm sure you like opinions that disagree with you. Hurray!

 

Yes, feel free to bring up and discuss absurd opinions, then move on.

 

Nobody is stopping you, but it should also be okay to express the opinion that doing so is absurd or pointless, right?

[moonslav59]

The 2023 opens today with exactly two regulars who played full seasons at a position last year: Verdugo and Devers.

 

 

Turner played a full season, as did Yoshida- just not for the Sox.

Casas played more in 2022 than Dalbec did in 2019.

[moonslav59]

This team will score runs but defensively they are the weakest Sox team in years.

Barring significant acquisitions we will see catchable fly balls become singles, singles doubles, and doubles triples. The infield has Arroyo who likely will spend significant time on the IL and Kike Hernandez who is a better Centerfielder than SS and he was mediocre centerfielder..

The rotation is still injury prone and Sale will likely spend considerable time once again on the IL and the bullpen still is questionable to down right sucks. Their closer Jansen has a heart condition who left a ST game because of dehydration when the air temp was only 74.

After watching their ST games I came to the conclusion this team is worse than the 2022 edition and will likely win 78 to 80 games only because they are playing a weaker schedule.

 

Kike was mediocre on D in CF?

[guinness22]

Very worried about this rotation. Health? How much left in tank? And D. I too think they’ll score but pitching and D worry me. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. The (on paper) soft schedule to start may help.

[Old Red]

Kike was mediocre on D in CF?

 

That’s his opinion.

[Old Red]

Turner played a full season, as did Yoshida- just not for the Sox.

Casas played more in 2022 than Dalbec did in 2019.

 

Turner did not play full time at any position last year, and Casas was hurt last year, and didn’t play a full season. Kike has never been anything close to a full time SS before, and Duvall has never been a full time CF before, and Dugy has not been a full time RF not to mention a C who hasn’t been full time either.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Turner played a full season, as did Yoshida- just not for the Sox.

Casas played more in 2022 than Dalbec did in 2019.

 

Turner played 66 games at third base last year. Chavis played 95 games for the '19 Sox; Casas played in 27 at the end of last year. Yoshida played in a league some view as 4A... To me, the point is that better Red Sox teams -- on websites -- than this one have gone south.

 

It's ok to be excited about the '23 season -- I am, too -- and let's hope all things go right that need to go right. I'm not one of those fans that wants the Sox to crash and burn asap, thinking it will lead to Bloom's firing, and expedite a new direction. Unless Henry hires another Dombro and totally changes his mind again to spend-spend-spend, the next rebuild will be just as long as this one.

 

And as Bloom himself says, "a half-decade of rebuilding -- that can't happen in Boston!"

[Elktonnick]

Kike was mediocre on D in CF?

Yup

[notin]

Yup

 

Based on what?

 

Hernandez was 4th in MLB for Defensive Runs Saved among MLB CFs for 2021-22, behind only Taylor, Straw and Buxton…

[Old Red]

Turner played 66 games at third base last year. Chavis played 95 games for the '19 Sox; Casas played in 27 at the end of last year. Yoshida played in a league some view as 4A... To me, the point is that better Red Sox teams -- on websites -- than this one have gone south.

 

It's ok to be excited about the '23 season -- I am, too -- and let's hope all things go right that need to go right. I'm not one of those fans that wants the Sox to crash and burn asap, thinking it will lead to Bloom's firing, and expedite a new direction. Unless Henry hires another Dombro and totally changes his mind again to spend-spend-spend, the next rebuild will be just as long as this one.

 

And as Bloom himself says, "a half-decade of rebuilding -- that can't happen in Boston!"

I agree, and as bad as I have trashed Bloom I don’t want to see the Red Sox suck again this year, and not make the playoffs. I’ve even gotten over Bogey being gone. Not the way it was handled, but him being gone.