Corey Kluber

[a700hitter]

Kluber was pretty solid last year. I'd like the signing, if the price is right.

So we can start the season with 4 #4’s and #5’s plus whatever Mr. Glass Sale can give us. Maybe Buchoolz is looking for work.

[Hugh2]

So we can start the season with 4 #4’s and #5’s plus whatever Mr. Glass Sale can give us. Maybe Buchoolz is looking for work.

 

Who would a700hitter have as the #1 #2 #3 #4 #5????

[a700hitter]

Who would a700hitter have as the #1 #2 #3 #4 #5????

I don't know, but I would go out and grab the Astros former GM and let Bloom manage a minor league franchise.

[notin]

SP right now includes Sale, Paxton, Bello, Whitlock and Pivetta. If they are actually all healthy, that’s not bad. Also a very big if.

 

The Sox need injury depth starters and bullpen improvements…

[Hugh2]

I don't know, but I would go out and grab the Astros former GM and let Bloom manage a minor league franchise.

 

So then how do you not now there isn’t a better option?

[moonslav59]

So then how do you not now there isn’t a better option?

 

He's a graduate from the Ole Red School of Vagaries.

 

[Hugh2]

The thing is we know the Sox need to get more than one starter. There’s no way they’re dropping prize money on two of them. And there’s no way they should with the amount of roster construction they need. If the Sox pick up a legit #2 type and Kluber is the second guy who they think is this years Wacha….it’s not a bad look

[notin]

The thing is we know the Sox need to get more than one starter. There’s no way they’re dropping prize money on two of them. And there’s no way they should with the amount of roster construction they need. If the Sox pick up a legit #2 type and Kluber is the second guy who they think is this years Wacha….it’s not a bad look

 

But who would be this #2 starter? Certainly no one on the free agent market. Trade front?

 

Maybe if they sign Bogaerts or Correa to a long term deal, they can have trade Mayer for a starter…

[a700hitter]

The thing is we know the Sox need to get more than one starter. There’s no way they’re dropping prize money on two of them. And there’s no way they should with the amount of roster construction they need. If the Sox pick up a legit #2 type and Kluber is the second guy who they think is this years Wacha….it’s not a bad look

Who would Hugh get as the #2?

[moonslav59]

But who would be this #2 starter? Certainly no one on the free agent market. Trade front?

 

Maybe if they sign Bogaerts or Correa to a long term deal, they can have trade Mayer for a starter…

 

That's the best way I see us building a solid winning team: spend on a SS and the pen. Maybe skimp/bridge on RF in hopes Rafaela or Abreu can shine, soon enough. Trade for an ace, like we always have.

[Hugh2]

Who would Hugh get as the #2?

 

Everything always depends on Price, but I’d check in on Senga/Taillon/Bassitt. If I trust my scouts and they think Senga is the real deal he’s my #1 because he’s probably costing significantly less than the other top pitchers on the market who all pose either serious age or injury risk. This probably allows me to pick up two guys and still have the budget to either resign Bogey or upgrade at SS.

 

Like I said, everything always comes down to Price. I’d check in on the trade market as well. The Marlins have publicly stated their desire to shed payroll, I would consider taking on Garcias contract to lessen on package for Lopez.

 

Sale

Lopez(or Senga)

Kluber

Bello

Pivetta

Whitlock

Paxton.

 

Sure that’s 7 guys, what are the odds they all stay healthy? If by some miracle they do, you can push a guy to the pen and start the season with a 6 man. As the old saying goes….you can never have enough pitching.

 

 

People can pick that rotation apart as much as they’d like….but at least it’s an opinion.

[mvp 78]

He's not the pitcher he used to be, and hasn't been all that great in the last 2 years:

 

47 GS/244 IP

15-13 4.17

92 ERA+

3.66 FIP

1.254 WHIP

4.1 K/BB

 

You wanted to give Wacha a QO.

 

Kluber was a 3 fWAR guy last season.

[mvp 78]

Kluber was pretty solid last year. I'd like the signing, if the price is right.

 

I've penciled him in for a few of my scenarios. It's fine with me.

[mvp 78]

So we can start the season with 4 #4’s and #5’s plus whatever Mr. Glass Sale can give us. Maybe Buchoolz is looking for work.

 

Kluber isn't a 4. 2022 Kluber would have been the #2 on the 2018 Red Sox.

[mvp 78]

I don't know, but I would go out and grab the Astros former GM and let Bloom manage a minor league franchise.

 

When a poster never actually makes a decision and just complains... Sad!

 

The only time a700 liked and offseason was 2011.

[mvp 78]

Everything always depends on Price, but I’d check in on Senga/Taillon/Bassitt. If I trust my scouts and they think Senga is the real deal he’s my #1 because he’s probably costing significantly less than the other top pitchers on the market who all pose either serious age or injury risk. This probably allows me to pick up two guys and still have the budget to either resign Bogey or upgrade at SS.

 

Like I said, everything always comes down to Price. I’d check in on the trade market as well. The Marlins have publicly stated their desire to shed payroll, I would consider taking on Garcias contract to lessen on package for Lopez.

 

Sale

Lopez(or Senga)

Kluber

Bello

Pivetta

Whitlock

Paxton.

 

Sure that’s 7 guys, what are the odds they all stay healthy? If by some miracle they do, you can push a guy to the pen and start the season with a 6 man. As the old saying goes….you can never have enough pitching.

 

 

People can pick that rotation apart as much as they’d like….but at least it’s an opinion.

 

If they get Senga, they don't get Eovaldi IMO. It's one or the other. More likely they grab Eovaldi than Senga.

 

Sale

Kluber

Eovaldi

Bello

Pivetta

 

This pushes Paxton and Whitlock to the pen. I'd keep Crawford and Winckowski as swing men that can switch back and forth between starting and relieving. The problem I have with this rotation is that there really isn't anyone you can rely on to lead the staff. Without dealing for an ace via trade, I don't know where that guy would come from either unless Bello gets a rocket strapped to him this year (which I don't see).

[Hugh2]

The problem is there are only 3 guys you can consider ACES on this years class: Verlander, Rodon, and DeGrome. All of those guys are going to blow up your budget (which would be fine if there weren't so many holes to fill) and carry significant Injury and or age risk. I love Verlander, but there's very high-risk next year is the year he hits the wall and can no longer be a staple in anyone rotation, and if it's not next year then maybe it's the next. Does anyone think that's not a massive risk for 40 million dollars per year for his age 40, 41, and 42 seasons? I really would have to see 70 million wasted on him and Sale with little to nothing to show. DeGrome is a safer bet with age but has the injury track record to scare anyone and he's looking at a massive payout still. A team without as many rotation holes to fill will pay him.

 

I almost want to remove Bassit from my suggestion, I like him, but I don't like losing the pick. This is why I love Senga, no QO, but I still think we need two names and likely have to lose a pick to sign a guy.

 

I think we need two names from the Senga/Walker/Bassitt/Manea/Kluber/Heaney/Eovaldi/Syndergaard group to fill out this rotation. I think one needs to be one of the better betts and the other can be who the Sox think may be this years WACHA type. Go into the season with 7 pitchers who are NOT Wink/Crawford.

 

I really like netting picks and going with a Senga/(Syndergaard or Eovaldi) addition. Heck I'd do the same at SS with either Bogaerts/Correa and call it a good offseason while netting picks.

[Hugh2]

If they get Senga, they don't get Eovaldi IMO. It's one or the other. More likely they grab Eovaldi than Senga.

 

Sale

Kluber

Eovaldi

Bello

Pivetta

 

This pushes Paxton and Whitlock to the pen. I'd keep Crawford and Winckowski as swing men that can switch back and forth between starting and relieving. The problem I have with this rotation is that there really isn't anyone you can rely on to lead the staff. Without dealing for an ace via trade, I don't know where that guy would come from either unless Bello gets a rocket strapped to him this year (which I don't see).

 

I think it's the exact opposite. They need two guys, to reiterate my post above they will go with a higher end option and more of a value signing. Eovaldi is not going to cost a lot AAV, and Senga isn't getting what DeGrome/Vernlander/Rodon will get. They may not, but they easily could afford both and still sign a SS/RP/OF. Eovaldi also comes without any draft pick loss which other teams can not say making him much more appealing to Boston. Unless of course you think a Senga signing allows the Sox to go big with either Rodon/Verlander????

Edited November 21, 2022 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[Hugh2]

Kluber isn't a 4. 2022 Kluber would have been the #2 on the 2018 Red Sox.

 

One thing I've learned over the last decade of watching baseball is people have a very warped view of what a #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 starting pitcher is. I suppose it's a little subjective as a team could hypothetically have 2 #1's or even three warping someone's view of what a #3 is.

[mvp 78]

The problem is there are only 3 guys you can consider ACES on this years class: Verlander, Rodon, and DeGrome. All of those guys are going to blow up your budget (which would be fine if there weren't so many holes to fill) and carry significant Injury and or age risk. I love Verlander, but there's very high-risk next year is the year he hits the wall and can no longer be a staple in anyone rotation, and if it's not next year then maybe it's the next. Does anyone think that's not a massive risk for 40 million dollars per year for his age 40, 41, and 42 seasons? I really would have to see 70 million wasted on him and Sale with little to nothing to show. DeGrome is a safer bet with age but has the injury track record to scare anyone and he's looking at a massive payout still. A team without as many rotation holes to fill will pay him.

 

I almost want to remove Bassit from my suggestion, I like him, but I don't like losing the pick. This is why I love Senga, no QO, but I still think we need two names and likely have to lose a pick to sign a guy.

 

I think we need two names from the Senga/Walker/Bassitt/Manea/Kluber/Heaney/Eovaldi/Syndergaard group to fill out this rotation. I think one needs to be one of the better betts and the other can be who the Sox think may be this years WACHA type. Go into the season with 7 pitchers who are NOT Wink/Crawford.

 

I really like netting picks and going with a Senga/(Syndergaard or Eovaldi) addition. Heck I'd do the same at SS with either Bogaerts/Correa and call it a good offseason while netting picks.

 

I'm not sure Senga is even an ace. He's a good pitcher, but probably just an Eovaldi replacement without the injury risk.

[mvp 78]

I think it's the exact opposite. They need two guys, to reiterate my post above they will go with a higher end option and more of a value signing. Eovaldi is not going to cost a lot AAV, and Senga isn't getting what DeGrome/Vernlander/Rodon will get. They may not, but they easily could afford both and still sign a SS/RP/OF. Eovaldi also comes without any draft pick loss which other teams can not say making him much more appealing to Boston. Unless of course you think a Senga signing allows the Sox to go big with either Rodon/Verlander????

 

I just don't see them signing 3 pitchers from this class. It doesn't seem worth it. If Kluber is there, they should just grab Eovaldi or Senga. I'm not sure they would grab both. If they did, it would push either Sale or Pivetta to the pen. Pivetta has just been a solid guy that can eat innings as a #5. Having Sale in the pen as a 20M+ arm coming off injury just doesn't make much sense when there are a few more years left to go on his deal. Bello is an automatic lock for the rotation. The only way they are bringing in a 3rd guy this offseason is if it's really a guy with ace upside via trade IMO.

 

Rodon/Verlander/deGrom aren't coming here. It'd be a shocker to me.

[mvp 78]

One thing I've learned over the last decade of watching baseball is people have a very warped view of what a #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 starting pitcher is. I suppose it's a little subjective as a team could hypothetically have 2 #1's or even three warping someone's view of what a #3 is.

 

I think that's what happened after we got to witness Roger from 86-92, Pedro from 98-03 and Sale from 17-18. It warps your expectations.

[Hugh2]

I just don't see them signing 3 pitchers from this class. It doesn't seem worth it. If Kluber is there, they should just grab Eovaldi or Senga. I'm not sure they would grab both. If they did, it would push either Sale or Pivetta to the pen. Pivetta has just been a solid guy that can eat innings as a #5. Having Sale in the pen as a 20M+ arm coming off injury just doesn't make much sense when there are a few more years left to go on his deal. Bello is an automatic lock for the rotation. The only way they are bringing in a 3rd guy this offseason is if it's really a guy with ace upside via trade IMO.

 

Rodon/Verlander/deGrom aren't coming here. It'd be a shocker to me.

 

I didn't say they are signing one of Rodon/Verlander/DeGrom, it's, in my opinion, they're not in on any of those guys. Yes, I agree and I think we are in agreement here the Sox are signing two guys from this FA group or at least should. If it pushes someone to the pen that's a good sign....it means Sale and Paxton are healthy. But someone always goes down at some point. You can never have enough pitching.

[mvp 78]

I didn't say they are signing one of Rodon/Verlander/DeGrom, it's, in my opinion, they're not in on any of those guys. Yes, I agree and I think we are in agreement here the Sox are signing two guys from this FA group or at least should. If it pushes someone to the pen that's a good sign....it means Sale and Paxton are healthy. But someone always goes down at some point. You can never have enough pitching.

 

I agree. However, they went over the lux tax last year and would in theory need to reset in 2024. Would they be able to do that with everyone still on payroll? I guess it depends on the deals they are signing this offseason? Maybe high dollar short term deals?

[a700hitter]

When a poster never actually makes a decision and just complains... Sad!

 

The only time a700 liked and offseason was 2011.

Maybe you weren’t around for 2007, but I liked the off-season before 2007. I also liked the off seasons when we got Sale, Price and J.D. Is that sad? That’s at least 4 off seasons, off the top of my head, that I liked.

[Hugh2]

I agree. However, they went over the lux tax last year and would in theory need to reset in 2024. Would they be able to do that with everyone still on payroll? I guess it depends on the deals they are signing this offseason? Maybe high dollar short term deals?

 

They could easily go Senga ($15) Kluber ($12) Conforto ($15) Correa ($32) and spend 74 million. They'd still have around $15-20 million to improve the bullpen after that, and Conforto could be a 1 year deal. giving them 30-35 million if they want a Devers extension to kick in next year and lower the AAV a little on it. If Eovaldi signs elsewhere you net a pick.

[mvp 78]

Maybe you weren’t around for 2007, but I liked the off-season before 2007. I also liked the off seasons when we got Sale, Price and J.D. Is that sad? That’s at least 4 off seasons, off the top of my head, that I liked.

 

I was not here prior to my start date.

 

I remember the offseason the Sox signed John Lackey and there being a magazine trying to hype up the rotation now that Lackey was in it. Woof. He had his moments, but there were some lean years in there.

 

Very reminiscent of my favorite part of Disneyland: Mr Toad's Wild Ride. I hope that Bloom is eventually afflicted with Motor Mania.

[mvp 78]

They could easily go Senga ($15) Kluber ($12) Conforto ($15) Correa ($32) and spend 74 million. They'd still have around $15-20 million to improve the bullpen after that, and Conforto could be a 1 year deal. giving them 30-35 million if they want a Devers extension to kick in next year and lower the AAV a little on it. If Eovaldi signs elsewhere you net a pick.

 

I guess it sounds good? IDK if they are going to go large and long on a SS. They'll need to prove me wrong.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing I've learned over the last decade of watching baseball is people have a very warped view of what a #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 starting pitcher is. I suppose it's a little subjective as a team could hypothetically have 2 #1's or even three warping someone's view of what a #3 is.

 

And it's not really that complicated, because having 5 positions makes it work out pretty neatly, i.e. a #3 of 5 is by definition dead average.

 

#1 - 20-30% above average.

#2 - 10-15% above average.

#4 and #5 are reverse images of #1 and #2.

 

Of course this is just what makes up an average rotation.

[mvp 78]

And it's not really that complicated, because having 5 positions makes it work out pretty neatly, i.e. a #3 of 5 is by definition dead average.

 

#1 - 20-30% above average.

#2 - 10-15% above average.

#4 and #5 are reverse images of #1 and #2.

 

Of course this is just what makes up an average rotation.

 

An average rotation would be ranked 15th/16th. The Red Sox wouldn't be allowed to have an average rotation either. They were 18th last season and it was pretty ugly. Now consider what the bottom third of the rotations actually looked like in MLB... YUCK!

 

There's just a sliding scale of expectations. What are the Sox allowed to have as a #1, #2, etc. Is a #5 on the Sox allowed to be an innings eater on relatively cheap money like Pivetta? Would a #4 for the Sox be a guy like Bello who is not quite ready but has the upside to be tremendous?