Overall Grade on Bloom & Cora

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just because someone is cheap you don’t try them in the toughest RF in baseball. He did have a position after signing Story of being the backup IF. Just like Franchy is not a 1B, and neither was Schwaber. That’s just Bloom, and Cora trying those spaghetti moves.

 

It defies belief that any manager who wants to win and keep his job would implore his boss to recruit guys to play positions they're not only unfamiliar with, but where they're downright below-average.

 

And I don't mean Story, who is a quality infielder. With Cordero, Arroyo and Schwarber, we're talking about making an outfielder an infielder, an infielder an outfielder, and playing DH anywhere on the field -- all in the span of less than one season...

 

Cora may be trying to make spaghetti, but the guy supplying the ingredients sometimes shops at the local Feed and Seed.

[mvp 78]

It defies belief that any manager who wants to win and keep his job would implore his boss to recruit guys to play positions they're not only unfamiliar with, but where they're downright below-average.

 

And I don't mean Story, who is a quality infielder. With Cordero, Arroyo and Schwarber, we're talking about making an outfielder an infielder, an infielder an outfielder, and playing DH anywhere on the field -- all in the span of less than one season...

 

Cora may be trying to make spaghetti, but the guy supplying the ingredients sometimes shops at the local Feed and Seed.

 

I mean, converting someone to play 1b is not exactly unheard of.

[Old Red]

It defies belief that any manager who wants to win and keep his job would implore his boss to recruit guys to play positions they're not only unfamiliar with, but where they're downright below-average.

 

And I don't mean Story, who is a quality infielder. With Cordero, Arroyo and Schwarber, we're talking about making an outfielder an infielder, an infielder an outfielder, and playing DH anywhere on the field -- all in the span of less than one season...

 

Cora may be trying to make spaghetti, but the guy supplying the ingredients sometimes shops at the local Feed and Seed.

 

I’ll just call Bloom the Spaghetti Man from here on out, because most of his moves are done with the idea of let’s see what sticks.

[Old Red]

I mean, converting someone to play 1b is not exactly unheard of.

 

No it is not, but not the best of ideas, and metrics won’t tell you Franchy doesn’t have any kind of good footwork around the bag. The good old reliable eye test will.

[mvp 78]

No it is not, but not the best of ideas, and metrics won’t tell you Franchy doesn’t have any kind of good footwork around the bag. The good old reliable eye test will.

 

He makes Kyle Schwarber look like Casey Kotchman.

[Maxbialystock]

It defies belief that any manager who wants to win and keep his job would implore his boss to recruit guys to play positions they're not only unfamiliar with, but where they're downright below-average.

 

And I don't mean Story, who is a quality infielder. With Cordero, Arroyo and Schwarber, we're talking about making an outfielder an infielder, an infielder an outfielder, and playing DH anywhere on the field -- all in the span of less than one season...

 

Cora may be trying to make spaghetti, but the guy supplying the ingredients sometimes shops at the local Feed and Seed.

 

Ahem. Schwarber worked well last year, not because he was a great fielder, but because he could hit.

 

Moving players to new positions is as old as baseball for the simple reason that you want, as much as possible, to get your best bats into the lineup. I believe Ted Williams is still considered to be the best player the Sox ever had (if you don't include Babe Ruth, who was traded), and he was never a great or even good outfielder.

 

Mookie Betts came up as a second baseman and moved to the outfield before arriving in Boston because of Pedroia. As it has turned out, he has been a fantastic rightfielder with great range and a terrific arm. Then, of course, there's the great Hanley Ramirez, who was basically a so-so SS and originally in the Sox system, who came back when Bogey had taken over, so off he went to LF, which is supposed to be easy, but was a disaster for Hanley.

 

About 1b this year. It was supposed to be Dalbec, a former thirdbaseman who should have been able to transition easily to 1b. Today he's not bad defensively, but others (Cordero, Shaw, Arroyo, etc) have been plugged there because once again Dalbec has struggled at the plate--his OPS is now .608. Shaw got sent away for one reason only: he stopped hitting.

 

Cordero keeps getting moved around because he is almost hitting with an OPS of .678 (higher than Dalbec's, Kike's .613, JBJ's .607, and even Verdugo's .636).

 

I would be remiss if I did not also admit/agree that now and then a player's defense is part of why he's in the lineup. This year Story and JBJ are in that category. Maybe Kike too except that his hitting has really gone down. I would even argue that Bogey and Devers are too simply because their defense is adequate and their hitting is excellent. At the other end of that spectrum is JD Martinez, who reportedly loves playing the outfield (and has a pretty decent arm), but this year has been almost exclusively a DH because he's just too slow for the outfield.

[Bellhorn04]

If if if. If JBJ was a good hitter, and didn’t need to be platooned. If Barnes was the old good Barnes. If Sale was the old good Sale who wasn’t hurt all the time.

 

There are always going to be some ifs.

[Maxbialystock]

No it is not, but not the best of ideas, and metrics won’t tell you Franchy doesn’t have any kind of good footwork around the bag. The good old reliable eye test will.

 

It's this simple. The Sox started this season with two freaking first basemen: Dalbec (righty bat) and Shaw (lefty bat).

 

Last year Dalbec's OPS was .792 and Shaw's OPS was .843.

 

This year Shaw couldn't hit spit and is gone. Dalbec was supposed to be the Sox first baseman, but his OPS is .608 and his WAR is -0.3.

 

Enter Cordero, who, with all his faults, has an OPS of .678 and an overall WAR of +0.1. I don't disagree about his footwork, but do disagree that it's a fatal flaw. I also disagree with your presumption that Bloom is an idiot for not carrying three good-hitting first basemen.

[Old Red]

It's this simple. The Sox started this season with two freaking first basemen: Dalbec (righty bat) and Shaw (lefty bat).

 

Last year Dalbec's OPS was .792 and Shaw's OPS was .843.

 

This year Shaw couldn't hit spit and is gone. Dalbec was supposed to be the Sox first baseman, but his OPS is .608 and his WAR is -0.3.

 

Enter Cordero, who, with all his faults, has an OPS of .678 and an overall WAR of +0.1. I don't disagree about his footwork, but do disagree that it's a fatal flaw. I also disagree with your presumption that Bloom is an idiot for not carrying three good-hitting first basemen.

 

There you go with that idiot word again that only you use for Spaghetti Man Bloom.

[moonslav59]

Just a spaghetti move to me, and a move that needed not to happen if Bloom would have just gotten a RHH OF in the first place instead of JBJ, and if not a regular RHH backup OF.

 

This is clearly a good point, and one I agreed with and used often at the time of the trade, but I really think the move was maybe equally about getting Binelas and Hamilton.

 

There is only so much a GM can do with the draft, IFA and mastering the waiver wire. Right or wrong, Bloom felt one priority was to build up the quantity and quality of prospects in the system. I know the value is highly speculative, but it still has value,

 

A long view is often needed on deals like this.

 

JBJ is going to have to hit even better, of one or both prospects are going to have to produce at the ML level for this trade to be viewed as balanced or a plus. The money aspect has to be considered as well. Had the money been even, we could have afforded a decent RH'd bat in the OF or an upgrade on Diekman in the pen.

 

It's a fair critique.

 

Bloom has missed on several choices, and on others we need to wait it out to know the final grade.

[moonslav59]

Ahem. Schwarber worked well last year, not because he was a great fielder, but because he could hit.

 

Moving players to new positions is as old as baseball for the simple reason that you want, as much as possible, to get your best bats into the lineup. I believe Ted Williams is still considered to be the best player the Sox ever had (if you don't include Babe Ruth, who was traded), and he was never a great or even good outfielder.

 

Mookie Betts came up as a second baseman and moved to the outfield before arriving in Boston because of Pedroia. As it has turned out, he has been a fantastic rightfielder with great range and a terrific arm. Then, of course, there's the great Hanley Ramirez, who was basically a so-so SS and originally in the Sox system, who came back when Bogey had taken over, so off he went to LF, which is supposed to be easy, but was a disaster for Hanley.

 

About 1b this year. It was supposed to be Dalbec, a former thirdbaseman who should have been able to transition easily to 1b. Today he's not bad defensively, but others (Cordero, Shaw, Arroyo, etc) have been plugged there because once again Dalbec has struggled at the plate--his OPS is now .608. Shaw got sent away for one reason only: he stopped hitting.

 

Cordero keeps getting moved around because he is almost hitting with an OPS of .678 (higher than Dalbec's, Kike's .613, JBJ's .607, and even Verdugo's .636).

 

I would be remiss if I did not also admit/agree that now and then a player's defense is part of why he's in the lineup. This year Story and JBJ are in that category. Maybe Kike too except that his hitting has really gone down. I would even argue that Bogey and Devers are too simply because their defense is adequate and their hitting is excellent. At the other end of that spectrum is JD Martinez, who reportedly loves playing the outfield (and has a pretty decent arm), but this year has been almost exclusively a DH because he's just too slow for the outfield.

 

I love reading your posts.

 

Keep 'em coming.

[Old Red]

This is clearly a good point, and one I agreed with and used often at the time of the trade, but I really think the move was maybe equally about getting Binelas and Hamilton.

 

There is only so much a GM can do with the draft, IFA and mastering the waiver wire. Right or wrong, Bloom felt one priority was to build up the quantity and quality of prospects in the system. I know the value is highly speculative, but it still has value,

 

A long view is often needed on deals like this.

 

JBJ is going to have to hit even better, of one or both prospects are going to have to produce at the ML level for this trade to be viewed as balanced or a plus. The money aspect has to be considered as well. Had the money been even, we could have afforded a decent RH'd bat in the OF or an upgrade on Diekman in the pen.

 

It's a fair critique.

 

Bloom has missed on several choices, and on others we need to wait it out to know the final grade.

 

At the moment Refsnyder looks like a capable option as a backup RHH OF. I know it’s a small sample size, but I believe a better option than Arroyo, but if he sticks when Kike comes back is another question. I know he hasn’t hit much in the past, but Arroyo isn’t hitting either.

[moonslav59]

At the moment Refsnyder looks like a capable option as a backup RHH OF. I know it’s a small sample size, but I believe a better option than Arroyo, but if he sticks when Kike comes back is another question. I know he hasn’t hit much in the past, but Arroyo isn’t hitting either.

 

Arroyo seems to be a Cora favorite, but I can't see choosing him over Refsnyder, at this moment.

 

The fact that Kike can and has played 2B and SS, makes Arroyo's versatility less needed, once Kike returns.

 

Of course, Refsnyder may just be a flash in the pan, but let the flash play it out a while longer, anyway.

 

No options for Arroyo is the sticking point. Looking to next year, they may think Arroyo might be an option at 2B, if Bogey walks. Personally, I think guys like Arroyo are available on the waiver wire or as cheap FA signings at any time.

[Old Red]

Arroyo seems to be a Cora favorite, but I can't see choosing him over Refsnyder, at this moment.

 

The fact that Kike can and has played 2B and SS, makes Arroyo's versatility less needed, once Kike returns.

 

Of course, Refsnyder may just be a flash in the pan, but let the flash play it out a while longer, anyway.

 

No options for Arroyo is the sticking point. Looking to next year, they may think Arroyo might be an option at 2B, if Bogey walks. Personally, I think guys like Arroyo are available on the waiver wire or as cheap FA signings at any time.

 

They have YS down at Worcester if they needed someone as a backup IF.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ahem. Schwarber worked well last year, not because he was a great fielder, but because he could hit.

 

Moving players to new positions is as old as baseball for the simple reason that you want, as much as possible, to get your best bats into the lineup. I believe Ted Williams is still considered to be the best player the Sox ever had (if you don't include Babe Ruth, who was traded), and he was never a great or even good outfielder.

 

Mookie Betts came up as a second baseman and moved to the outfield before arriving in Boston because of Pedroia. As it has turned out, he has been a fantastic rightfielder with great range and a terrific arm. Then, of course, there's the great Hanley Ramirez, who was basically a so-so SS and originally in the Sox system, who came back when Bogey had taken over, so off he went to LF, which is supposed to be easy, but was a disaster for Hanley.

 

About 1b this year. It was supposed to be Dalbec, a former thirdbaseman who should have been able to transition easily to 1b. Today he's not bad defensively, but others (Cordero, Shaw, Arroyo, etc) have been plugged there because once again Dalbec has struggled at the plate--his OPS is now .608. Shaw got sent away for one reason only: he stopped hitting.

 

Cordero keeps getting moved around because he is almost hitting with an OPS of .678 (higher than Dalbec's, Kike's .613, JBJ's .607, and even Verdugo's .636).

 

I would be remiss if I did not also admit/agree that now and then a player's defense is part of why he's in the lineup. This year Story and JBJ are in that category. Maybe Kike too except that his hitting has really gone down. I would even argue that Bogey and Devers are too simply because their defense is adequate and their hitting is excellent. At the other end of that spectrum is JD Martinez, who reportedly loves playing the outfield (and has a pretty decent arm), but this year has been almost exclusively a DH because he's just too slow for the outfield.

 

My post was never about baseball players playing multiple positions or even converting to new spots, but entirely about people here blaming Cora for Bloom not completing the roster with viable position players.

[moonslav59]

They have YS down at Worcester if they needed someone as a backup IF.

 

I like Fitzy better. Management might go with Downs above YS and Fitzy. (I know he's in your dog house.)

[moonslav59]

My post was never about baseball players playing multiple positions or even converting to new spots, but entirely about people here blaming Cora for Bloom not completing the roster with viable position players.

 

I get your point, but who chose to play Arroyo in RF over JBJ v LHPs?

 

Who chose to keep Refsnyder in AAA? (Maybe both Bloom & Cora had a say in that choice.)

 

We are also seeing Cordero in the OF, more often than before- partially because Dalbec is starting to show signs of life in his bat, but still, he was an OF option all along, too.

 

I'm not happy with the OF options Cora was given, either, but I try to view the overall roster and the limited resources Bloom was given to fill several high need areas. I'm not sure how much the either/or choices played a role in some decisions, but I think it wa sand still is a factor that needs to considered.

 

Clearly, in hindsight, the Story and Diekman signings are at question, and the money used on them could have been used to sign a closer like Iglesias, a 2Bman like Iggy and an FT CF/RF'er that is better than the JBJ/Arroyo/Cordero/Refsnyder combo, but the season is till young. Trades can be made. Good signings have been made.

 

Let's see how things play out.

[Old Red]

I like Fitzy better. Management might go with Downs above YS and Fitzy. (I know he's in your dog house.)

 

I like YS for his glove first, but yes Fitzy would be an option too.

[Old Red]

I get your point, but who chose to play Arroyo in RF over JBJ v LHPs?

 

Who chose to keep Refsnyder in AAA? (Maybe both Bloom & Cora had a say in that choice.)

 

We are also seeing Cordero in the OF, more often than before- partially because Dalbec is starting to show signs of life in his bat, but still, he was an OF option all along, too.

 

I'm not happy with the OF options Cora was given, either, but I try to view the overall roster and the limited resources Bloom was given to fill several high need areas. I'm not sure how much the either/or choices played a role in some decisions, but I think it wa sand still is a factor that needs to considered.

 

Clearly, in hindsight, the Story and Diekman signings are at question, and the money used on them could have been used to sign a closer like Iglesias, a 2Bman like Iggy and an FT CF/RF'er that is better than the JBJ/Arroyo/Cordero/Refsnyder combo, but the season is till young. Trades can be made. Good signings have been made.

 

Let's see how things play out.

 

Let’s remember too on how long it has taken Cora to address the backend of the BP, and give Houck at shot at closer. I guess he figured piggybacking was more important.

[Bellhorn04]

I get your point, but who chose to play Arroyo in RF over JBJ v LHPs?

 

I would think Bloom and Cora saw eye-to-eye perfectly on that one.

 

Bloom is the guy who acquired Arroyo.

 

Cora is the guy who likes platoons and L-R matchups.

[Bellhorn04]

Let’s remember too on how long it has taken Cora to address the backend of the BP, and give Houck at shot at closer. I guess he figured piggybacking was more important.

 

Sometimes it's trial and error. Plus they were expecting Barnes and Robles to be better.

[Old Red]

I would think Bloom and Cora saw eye-to-eye perfectly on that one.

 

Bloom is the guy who acquired Arroyo.

 

Cora is the guy who likes platoons and L-R matchups.

 

L-R matchups are not always necessary, or work as in the Arroyo move who wasn’t an OF, and wasn’t hitting.

[Old Red]

Sometimes it's trial and error. Plus they were expecting Barnes and Robles to be better.

 

Trial, and error was one thing, but both Barnes, and Robles wasn’t working early on, and to much time was wasted playing iney,meany, miney, mo.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

the limited resources Bloom was given to fill several high need areas.

 

This assumption is a popular one here for those who appreciate Bloom's style. I've never disputed your point, and instead have always felt that working within certain limits was actually the specific reason Bloom was hired in Boston.

 

In other words, I doubt he keeps drawing up projected lineups or rotations with expensive proposals, enthusiastically brings them to Henry's office, only to trudge back to the conference room after continual thumbs-down.

[Bellhorn04]

It's always easy managing from the armchair.

[Old Red]

It's always easy managing from the armchair.

 

Just, because you sit in the big chair doesn’t necessarily mean you know more than those who don’t.

[mvp 78]

Just, because you sit in the big chair doesn’t necessarily mean you know more than those who don’t.

 

I guarantee that anyone that is on the coaching staff knows more baseball than anyone that has ever posted on here, but especially former HS scouts.

[Old Red]

I guarantee that anyone that is on the coaching staff knows more baseball than anyone that has ever posted on here, but especially former HS scouts.

 

I was a T Ball scout. Does that count? Just, because you know more doesn’t mean you automatically make better decisions.

[mvp 78]

I was a T Ball scout. Does that count? Just, because you know more doesn’t mean you automatically make better decisions.

 

That is a different argument. Also, my post is directly referencing a former poster who used to go around saying he knew more than everyone because of his extensive baseball knowledge.

 

At the end of the day, the outcome is what matters. With Cora, he's won a WS and snuck into an ALCS with a team I think most people thought wouldn't make the playoffs. I think he's a very good manager. Aside from Tito, he's the best Sox manager of my lifetime.

[Old Red]

That is a different argument. Also, my post is directly referencing a former poster who used to go around saying he knew more than everyone because of his extensive baseball knowledge.

 

At the end of the day, the outcome is what matters. With Cora, he's won a WS and snuck into an ALCS with a team I think most people thought wouldn't make the playoffs. I think he's a very good manager. Aside from Tito, he's the best Sox manager of my lifetime.

 

I keep hearing that last years team wasn’t supposed to be very good. Why, because of 2020? There was to much talent on last years team to start the season to think they wasn’t going to be very good plus Sale, and ERod were coming back, and JD got his binky IPad back so he could hit again. Cora didn’t take a bunch of nobodies, and turned them into a playoff team.