Overall Grade on Bloom & Cora

[moonslav59]

Within the context of their inherited/given roster and spending budget limits, how would you grade Bloom & Cora?

 

I vote #1, easily.

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by moonslav59

[notin]

I don’t get the constant re-arranging of the same pitchers as a way to cover injuries and ineffectiveness instead of bringing up the occasional prospect.

 

I get keeping Bello down. But Seabold and Winckowski and German are all 25 and 26 years old. Give them a legitimate shot that’s longer than being 27th man for 3 innings of a doubleheader…

[Larry Cook]

I don’t get the constant re-arranging of the same pitchers as a way to cover injuries and ineffectiveness instead of bringing up the occasional prospect.

 

I get keeping Bello down. But Seabold and Winckowski and German are all 25 and 26 years old. Give them a legitimate shot that’s longer than being 27th man for 3 innings of a doubleheader…

 

Agreed! Worst case scenario is they are slightly better than the current roster dead weight, because at the end of the day, they can’t do worse!

[iortiz]

Plain C.

[moonslav59]

Plain C.

 

Vote.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I voted Cora C+, as in C for Cora, and plus for doing the best he can with what Bloom has given him -- and that includes organizational commands to make certain guys starters, instead of relievers.

[moonslav59]

I'm curious on what people expected Bloom to do when handed what he was given after 2019, told to dump Betts and given just $20M to spend on 2020 and $40M on 2021. I guess expectations were much higher than I had.

 

This was the roster at the end of 2019:

 

Sale (IL), Eovaldi, ERod, Price (to be dumped), Porcello (FA) and B Johnson

Workman, Barnes, Taylor, Walden, DHern, Brasier, Hembree and a bunch of scrubs named Lakins, Weber, Velazquez, Chacin, Brewer, Poyner, T Kelley

Vaz & Leon

Moreland & Sam Travis

Holt & Marco Hernandez

Bogey & C Owings

Devers

Beni & Gorkys

JBJ

Betts (to be traded)

JD

 

Sure, there is a solid core of 6-10 players, but the rest were at or near replacement level, and Betts & Price were traded (not Bloom's fault), and Sale & Erod missed 2020 while others like Beni missed some. Bloom was supposed to make us a contender on a $20M winter spending budget? Really? Seriously?

 

Okay, he was given $40M to spend before 2021, but when you consider we needed about 10 slots filled, not to mention trying to beef up the rest of the weak 40 man and farm at the same time, I think building a team 2 games away from a WS appearance rates at higher than a "C".

 

This past winter, he was given a comparable amount to spend as other past Sox GMs, but still with limits.

 

Diekman looks like a bust, but that was just $4M x 2.

 

Story has not lived up to expectations, so far, and he was his only LNL signings, so I guess maybe some are taking away big points on this move.

 

Hill has been Okay.

 

Wacha and Strahm have been miracles.

 

Other key additions made by Bloom since taking over:

 

Whitlock- rule 5

Pivetta & Seabold- trade (Workman & Hembree)

Schreiber- waivers

Kike- FA

A Davis- trade

German- with Ottavino trade

Paxton- FA more for 2023 and beyond

Arroyo- waivers

R Hernandez- trade

Sawamura- cheap FA signing

 

Verdugo, Downs and Wong (Betts)

Cordero, Winckowski and long shots for Beni

JBJ, Binelas & Hamilton for Renfroe (who he signed to replace JBJ B4 2021)

 

Draft & IFA:

Mayer

Yorke

Bleis

Murphy

McDonough

Lugo

Song

Jordan

Hickey

[Bellhorn04]

Let's face it, during the season these grades go up and down with the team's W-L record.

 

I would give Bloom a B and Cora a B+ to this point in this season.

[mvp 78]

Lugo was DD.

[JDavis76]

I have a hard time giving any team with a $200M+ payroll that has been mired at .500 or worse for the majority of the season a C+ or better

[moonslav59]

I have a hard time giving any team with a $200M+ payroll that has been mired at .500 or worse for the majority of the season a C+ or better

 

I get that and that context is legit, but when Bloom was responsible for $20M of that in 2020 and had a $40M winter spending budget before 2021, how can that be held against him.

 

I think that context is important, too.

 

Look at all the players we used in 2020. That wasn't all Bloom's fault. $20M for 20 players is going to net any GM what we saw in 2020.

 

He's made some bad moves, for sure, but he's vastly improved the 40 man roster, the farm and the long term outlook of the budget.

[JDavis76]

I get that and that context is legit, but when Bloom was responsible for $20M of that in 2020 and had a $40M winter spending budget before 2021, how can that be held against him.

 

I think that context is important, too.

 

Look at all the players we used in 2020. That wasn't all Bloom's fault. $20M for 20 players is going to net any GM what we saw in 2020.

 

He's made some bad moves, for sure, but he's vastly improved the 40 man roster, the farm and the long term outlook of the budget.

 

We are almost 2 1/2 seasons removed from what he inherited.

 

And I think cora's handling of the bullpen this season drags down his score. Granted, hang 'em chaim didn't give him a lot to work with and there are some injury factors. But every team has injuries.

[Larry Cook]

Who hired the old guy we had as the manager during Covid? Hang’em Chaim needs to have the Sox accounting dept cut the old guy a huge check, because that old guy was such a terrible manager, we ended up with Mayer!

[notin]

I voted Cora C+, as in C for Cora, and plus for doing the best he can with what Bloom has given him -- and that includes organizational commands to make certain guys starters, instead of relievers.

 

 

Given his addictions to using Hansel Robles in save situations and Matt Barnes in extra innings (and Arroyo in RF), this point is debatable…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Given his addictions to using Hansel Robles in save situations and Matt Barnes in extra innings (and Arroyo in RF), this point is debatable…

 

... yep, but what's not is these are basically the only guys with histories of closing that he was given.

[notin]

... yep, but what's not is these are basically the only guys with histories of closing that he was given.

 

So you think that makes them better options than Houck? Or justifies their usage in June?

 

Not to mention, whose idea was Arroyo in RF? Just play Bradley out there…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So you think that makes them better options than Houck? Or justifies their usage in June?

 

Not to mention, whose idea was Arroyo in RF? Just play Bradley out there…

 

This last question really brings up one more, before grades can be issued: after Bloom publicly declared at the outset of the season that Boston still needed a right-handed hitting outfielder, did Cora disagree, because he had Arroyo as an option... and finally, does anyone think a manager actually has the power to override the CBO who hired him?

[moonslav59]

We are almost 2 1/2 seasons removed from what he inherited.

 

And I think cora's handling of the bullpen this season drags down his score. Granted, hang 'em chaim didn't give him a lot to work with and there are some injury factors. But every team has injuries.

 

Go ahead and count year one, where he was forced to trade Betts & Price and given $20M to spend, then Sale and ERod missed the season.

 

Go ahead and count 2021, where he has $40M to spend and 10 slots to fill, while lasting longer in the playoffs than your Yanks.

 

Yes, every team has injury issues, but not every team was handed a roster with 20 holes and a tiny spending budget.

 

I'd like to see how well DD would have done with those budgets.

[moonslav59]

This last question really brings up one more, before grades can be issued: after Bloom publicly declared at the outset of the season that Boston still needed a right-handed hitting outfielder, did Cora disagree, because he had Arroyo as an option... and finally, does anyone think a manager actually has the power to override the CBO who hired him?

 

So, we play Arroyo at 2B and sign Suzuki for RF and Iglesias to close, and never call on Story and Wacha.

[Bellhorn04]

Given his addictions to using Hansel Robles in save situations and Matt Barnes in extra innings (and Arroyo in RF), this point is debatable…

 

Who should he have used instead of Barnes in those games?

[JDavis76]

Go ahead and count year one, where he was forced to trade Betts & Price and given $20M to spend, then Sale and ERod missed the season.

 

Go ahead and count 2021, where he has $40M to spend and 10 slots to fill, while lasting longer in the playoffs than your Yanks.

 

Yes, every team has injury issues, but not every team was handed a roster with 20 holes and a tiny spending budget.

 

I'd like to see how well DD would have done with those budgets.

 

More moonslop. I am simply counting the years that he has been GM. Pretty simple.

[Bellhorn04]

More moonslop. I am simply counting the years that he has been GM. Pretty simple.

 

What about Theo Epstein's tenure with the Cubs? Do you think his first few years were a failure?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Who should he have used instead of Barnes in those games?

 

Koji isn't walking through that gate.

 

Yankees had Chapman-Britton-Green-Kahnle-Ottavino-Betances-Robertson and never made it out of the AL. It was the greatest bullpen in the history of baseball -- we know this had to be true, because we were reminded over and over by New York-based media platforms...

[Bellhorn04]

Koji isn't walking through that gate.

 

Yankees had Chapman-Britton-Green-Kahnle-Ottavino-Betances-Robertson and never made it out of the AL. It was the greatest bullpen in the history of baseball -- we know this had to be true, because we were reminded over and over by New York-based media platforms...

 

All true, but it's time for me to nail down notin on this one.

[notin]

Who should he have used instead of Barnes in those games?

 

 

I was ok with Barnes once, but by the time the second or third extra inning appearance for Barnes was ready, literally any other pitcher in that bullpen was a better option. Even Sawamura and Danish have been more effective

[moonslav59]

More moonslop. I am simply counting the years that he has been GM. Pretty simple.

 

Being proud of having a simple mind is not something to brag about.

 

Context is needed. He was handed a 40 man roster with 20 holes and 10 so-so players, told to dump Betts and Price and given $20M to make them a contender in one year?

 

He was handed $40M, the next year, which is not much, and he made them into a contender.

 

Is that simple enough for you?

[JDavis76]

Being proud of having a simple mind is not something to brag about.

 

Context is needed. He was handed a 40 man roster with 20 holes and 10 so-so players, told to dump Betts and Price and given $20M to make them a contender in one year?

 

He was handed $40M, the next year, which is not much, and he made them into a contender.

 

Is that simple enough for you?

 

So, has he or has he not been the GM for almost 2 1/2 seasons by now?

[moonslav59]

So, has he or has he not been the GM for almost 2 1/2 seasons by now?

 

Where did I even hint at saying no?

 

Bloom took over a mess and got us to within 2 games of the WS in 1 year. We are in the race again this year.

[Bellhorn04]

I was ok with Barnes once, but by the time the second or third extra inning appearance for Barnes was ready, literally any other pitcher in that bullpen was a better option. Even Sawamura and Danish have been more effective

 

OK, Barnes's second extra inning appearance was on May 4.

 

He came on in the top of the 10th with the score 4-4.

 

Already used in the game were Davis, Strahm, Robles and Diekman.

 

Barnes got 2 outs, then gave up a HR, single and walk.

 

Sawamura then came in and gave up a single and HR.

 

Danish was in Worcester at the time.

 

It was slim pickings.

[notin]

This last question really brings up one more, before grades can be issued: after Bloom publicly declared at the outset of the season that Boston still needed a right-handed hitting outfielder, did Cora disagree, because he had Arroyo as an option... and finally, does anyone think a manager actually has the power to override the CBO who hired him?

 

I think the RHH OF Bloom was referring to was Suzuki. Just because a lot of folks on this board assumed it was to platoon with Bradley didn’t mean that was the case. Just like when some of us (myself included) thought Renfroe was brought in to platoon with Benintendi.

 

So whose idea was Arroyo in RF?