Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

The funny thing is, DD may have become that guy.

 

In Boston, he was all about big contracts and trading for big names. He brought us Price, Sale,Kimbrel, Martinez and gave every one of them nine figures with an AAV over $20mill. He traded away a slew of prospects, including 4 in the BA top 100.

 

In Philly, he dialed down to the 8-figure 4 to 5 year deals. He kept his upper minors prospects. And for some reason, he ignored the bullpen altogether…

 

Even 8 figure 4-5 year deals were out of the question in BOS until the Story signing in March, 2022. H'e hav had to go from the Bogey extension in April 2019 to March 2022 without any even moderate signings. I don't see that b eing in his "nature."

[Bellhorn04]

I have to agree with you at least on the Betts trade and I think it had more to do with getting rid of Price, than with Mookie.

 

I have to think they only traded Betts because they believed there was no way he was staying in Boston after 2020. I don't think the Boston Red Sox trade a relatively young Hall of Famer solely for short-term payroll and tax relief. I sure hope not, anyway.

[moonslav59]

I have to agree with you at least on the Betts trade and I think it had more to do with getting rid of Price, than with Mookie. Price pitched well for the Sox not $300 million worth of well but well. Price was a bit of a problem child for Henry, arguing with the press causing controversy but the final straw was the fight on the team plane with Eckersley, over what Eck said on tv about a player (not Price) it escalated into an issue and Eckersley even stopped traveling on the team plane for a while, did I mention Eck and Henry are friends, Henry had Betts traded because of contract but also an excuse to get rid of Price and his problems

 

I think it would have been hard for DD to swallow trading Betts and Price, but even if he could have done that, not spending, at all for 2 years and 11 months would have killed his spirit. He's just not the GM for that role.

[moonslav59]

I have to think they only traded Betts because they believed there was no way he was staying in Boston after 2020. I don't think the Boston Red Sox trade a relatively young Hall of Famer solely for short-term payroll and tax relief. I sure hope not, anyway.

 

Agreed, and the Price part of the deal was secondary but important. They may have dealt Price in a separate deal, later, but he was going, too.

[Bobe2]

I think it would have been hard for DD to swallow trading Betts and Price, but even if he could have done that, not spending, at all for 2 years and 11 months would have killed his spirit. He's just not the GM for that role.

 

Betts I think he would have liked to keep him his final year and try to extend him

[Bobe2]

I have to think they only traded Betts because they believed there was no way he was staying in Boston after 2020. I don't think the Boston Red Sox trade a relatively young Hall of Famer solely for short-term payroll and tax relief. I sure hope not, anyway.

 

It’s hard to say why they reacted to Boris the way they did usually Boris starts out with crazy demands and gradually comes back to earth (JD was asking over $200 million and signed for around $100 million) so why they bailed on the first monetary demand from Betts only they know

[notin]

Betts I think he would have liked to keep him his final year and try to extend him

 

They wasn’t possible unless the Sox found another way under the cap.

 

The big problem was after he failed to extend Betts, Dombrowski did extend Bogaerts and Sale, using up that portion of the money.

 

Now if DD has just ignored Sale, maybe things would be different. Although there were also rumors Betts was adamant about testing the market…

[moonslav59]

Betts I think he would have liked to keep him his final year and try to extend him

 

Wouldn't any GM?

 

The budget demands made it impossible. I suppose he could have tried to trade Sale or Bogey with Price, but who knows?so he could keep Betts, but who knows?

[moonslav59]

It’s hard to say why they reacted to Boris the way they did usually Boris starts out with crazy demands and gradually comes back to earth (JD was asking over $200 million and signed for around $100 million) so why they bailed on the first monetary demand from Betts only they know

 

It turned out he took close to what the Sox offered, but in between, we extended Sale and Bogey, making it all but impossible.

 

Those were DD's choices.

[Bobe2]

They wasn’t possible unless the Sox found another way under the cap.

 

The big problem was after he failed to extend Betts, Dombrowski did extend Bogaerts and Sale, using up that portion of the money.

 

Now if DD has just ignored Sale, maybe things would be different. Although there were also rumors Betts was adamant about testing the market…

He never did test the market and as it turns out the Sale contract because of injury has been awful. Have you read the Betts contract very creative. His $365 million will be paid over 24 years, every year $8 million is deferred from his salary to be paid after contract expires, so his yearly payroll salary is in the mid $20 million while his luxury cap salary will be around $25 million a year for the length of the contract this year the qualifying offer is over $19 million making Betts actually very affordable for the Dodgers, if they trade him the contract reverts to different monetary values making it unaffordable to almost anyone

[moonslav59]

He never did test the market and as it turns out the Sale contract because of injury has been awful. Have you read the Betts contract very creative. His $365 million will be paid over 24 years, every year $8 million is deferred from his salary to be paid after contract expires, so his yearly payroll salary is in the mid $20 million while his luxury cap salary will be around $25 million a year for the length of the contract this year the qualifying offer is over $19 million making Betts actually very affordable for the Dodgers, if they trade him the contract reverts to different monetary values making it unaffordable to almost anyone

 

cots has his lux tax cost at $29M.

[notin]

He never did test the market and as it turns out the Sale contract because of injury has been awful. Have you read the Betts contract very creative. His $365 million will be paid over 24 years, every year $8 million is deferred from his salary to be paid after contract expires, so his yearly payroll salary is in the mid $20 million while his luxury cap salary will be around $25 million a year for the length of the contract this year the qualifying offer is over $19 million making Betts actually very affordable for the Dodgers, if they trade him the contract reverts to different monetary values making it unaffordable to almost anyone

 

Not testing the market was quite possibly related to COVID.

 

The Dodgers offered them same deal as the Sox, but two years longer.

 

So either COVID made Betts re-prioritize or he just wanted out of Boston. I don’t think the Sox were going to be able to keep him either way.

 

But I do wish DD had had the foresight to extend Devers and just ignored Sale…

[moonslav59]

Not testing the market was quite possibly related to COVID.

 

The Dodgers offered them same deal as the Sox, but two years longer.

 

So either COVID made Betts re-prioritize or he just wanted out of Boston. I don’t think the Sox were going to be able to keep him either way.

 

But I do wish DD had had the foresight to extend Devers and just ignored Sale…

 

Had they not extended Sale and kept Betts for 2020, maybe COVID would have gotten him to take a similar deal to what the Dodgers gave him.

[Bobe2]

cots has his lux tax cost at $29M.

 

What I read it said average lux tax cost of contract, who’s going to argue over $4 mil it could be $35 million on a conventional contract

[Bobe2]

Had they not extended Sale and kept Betts for 2020, maybe COVID would have gotten him to take a similar deal to what the Dodgers gave him.

 

Read an interview with Betts a couple weeks ago he said if the Sox offered him what the Dodgers did he would have signed here

[Bobe2]

Read an interview with Betts a couple weeks ago he said if the Sox offered him what the Dodgers did he would have signed here

 

Sh-t

[Bobe2]

It turned out he took close to what the Sox offered, but in between, we extended Sale and Bogey, making it all but impossible.

 

Those were DD's choices.

 

Was 2019 a walk year for Sale

[moonslav59]

Was 2019 a walk year for Sale

 

Yes, 2019 was his last option year at $13.5M.

 

His 2016-2018 numbers:

599 IP

2.85 ERA (151 ERA+)

2.71 FIP

0.97 WHIP

6.4 K/BB

46-22 W-L

 

Yes, he only had 158 IP in 2018, but his 2.11 ERA, 0.86 WHIP and 6.9 K/BB were the best of his career.

[moonslav59]

What I read it said average lux tax cost of contract, who’s going to argue over $4 mil it could be $35 million on a conventional contract

 

The main point is that with Sale and B ogey signed, $25 of 29M did not fit in the budget.

[Bobe2]

The main point is that with Sale and B ogey signed, $25 of 29M did not fit in the budget.

 

At the time sale really was a good signing, no one could have predicted all his injuries

[notin]

At the time sale really was a good signing, no one could have predicted all his injuries

 

Unless they noticed he already had them.

 

Sale was hurt when he signed, which was probably why he signed such a short deal…

[Bobe2]

Unless they noticed he already had them.

 

Sale was hurt when he signed, which was probably why he signed such a short deal…

Forgot about that he had been nursing his arm for a while, you have to blame the whole organization doctors trainers front office for making a poor decision

[moonslav59]

Unless they noticed he already had them.

 

Sale was hurt when he signed, which was probably why he signed such a short deal…

 

Yes.

 

The way I saw the signing was that they paid him $145M/5 knowing he'd miss a year. A healthy Sale was worth $145M/4 or $36.25M x 4.

 

I still don't think that was a bad idea.

 

The problem is, he's missed more than 1 whole season.

[moonslav59]

Forgot about that he had been nursing his arm for a while, you have to blame the whole organization doctors trainers front office for making a poor decision

 

He didn't miss all this time over the same predictable injury.

[cp176]

There is absolutely no question in my mind that Dave Dombrowski is one of the best GMs to be involved in the business. No one knows what his profile is. My guess is that if someone told him to build the best farm system or whatever, he could and would have done it. Maybe Bloom will become that guy but I doubt seriously that anything he does or accomplishes will come close to matching what DD has done. Pretty sure that he has done what he has been asked to do.

[moonslav59]

There is absolutely no question in my mind that Dave Dombrowski is one of the best GMs to be involved in the business. No one knows what his profile is. My guess is that if someone told him to build the best farm system or whatever, he could and would have done it. Maybe Bloom will become that guy but I doubt seriously that anything he does or accomplishes will come close to matching what DD has done. Pretty sure that he has done what he has been asked to do.

 

I agree he is one of the very best GMs of our time, if not ever.

 

I'm not so sure he'd be willing to go a month shy of 3 years without making any major signings, and not only that, he'd have had to cut the budget by a ton, year one, and not even come close to getting back to the 2019 baseline until the Story March of 2022.

 

I'm not saying he'd definitely quit, but he might have complained enough to get himself let go, at some point, anyway.

 

Maybe the Eck incident and friction from 2019 was all it took, but IMO, JH & Co, wanted a different type of GM for the rebuild. Just speculation, on my part.

[MADSTORK]

Meanwhile back in the real baseball world

DD is 3 wins away from a ring “priceless”

 

Thanks John “you haven’t made a bad move yet “

[redsoxrules]

Read an interview with Betts a couple weeks ago he said if the Sox offered him what the Dodgers did he would have signed here

 

Of course he's going say that. Got to make himself look good and not to look like a traitor.

 

Interview person: Hey Mookie would you have sign with the Sox for the same deal?

 

Mookie, no man I wanted to be in LA all along.

 

As if a player would say that ffs.

[notin]

Meanwhile back in the real baseball world

DD is 3 wins away from a ring “priceless”

 

Thanks John “you haven’t made a bad move yet “

 

And Cashman has one ring since Bill Clinton was President…

[moonslav59]

And Cashman has one ring since Bill Clinton was President…

 

Hal been workin' on the night moves.