Fire Bloom .

[oldtimer]

11 games to go, and 7 games under 500. 9-2, or losing team for you.

 

It's been a tough year. They find a lot of ways to lose. Sloppy baseball with too many errors, bad base running, we know about pitching issues and too many guys declining at the plate. Obviously we need better pitching, but also a more focused team that plays consistently with less errors and better base running. We need to jettison the guys that can't put up major league offensive numbers. We stayed way too long with those that couldn't.

 

Let's get guys who are excellent at their positions and limit the number of flexible position guys who are only average at their positions. Moon is somewhat optimistic for 2023 but I am from Missouri on this team and have to be shown that Bloom, Cora and the front office has what it takes to make the hard decisions going forward. Bloom was lauded for resigning Kike for $10M, but I wonder if he might have done better with the money. If this is evidence of the type of moves Bloom will make, it is not the kind that sells me n his approach.

 

Saying that, I still know that there is money to spend and if it is used wisely we may yet field a competitive team in 2023.

[dgalehouse]

11 games to go, and 7 games under 500. 9-2, or losing team for you.

 

It has been inevitable for a while, but the Sox are now on the verge of elimination from the playoffs. One more Seattle win or Sox loss will do it. The only hope now is to escape the cellar, but that looks almost impossible also. A lost season for sure.

[moonslav59]

It has been inevitable for a while, but the Sox are now on the verge of elimination from the playoffs. One more Seattle win or Sox loss will do it. The only hope now is to escape the cellar, but that looks almost impossible also. A lost season for sure.

 

I was hoping we might finish in the top half of AL teams by W-L records, but these last 3 tight games have pretty much dashed those hopes.

 

7. CWS 76-76

8. MN 74-78 (-2.0)

9. BOS 72-79 (-3.5) with 11 games to play v tough opps

 

[a700hitter]

If they lose 9 of their last 11 and end up with 88 losses in last place with a $200+ million payroll, maybe the owners bring in a whole new management team.

[notin]

If they lose 9 of their last 11 and end up with 88 losses in last place with a $200+ million payroll, maybe the owners bring in a whole new management team.

 

That already happened.

 

Who are the non-contributing big money players on that $230mill payroll?

[moonslav59]

If they lose 9 of their last 11 and end up with 88 losses in last place with a $200+ million payroll, maybe the owners bring in a whole new management team.

 

.Dream on.

[moonslav59]

That already happened.

 

Who are the non-contributing big money players on that $230mill payroll?

 

Only Barnes is on Bloom, unless you count Story or Kike.

 

He still wants to blame Bloom for the cliff.

[a700hitter]

players who underperform don’t stick around unless they are under multi-year contracts. The FO guys and the manager are even easier to replace. Bloom has had 3 years. Cora got 3 extra seasons for his championship. IMO, it is time to change the personnel at the top. Sam Kennedy hasn’t made a great case for staying either. Buh Bye. Edited September 25, 2022 by a700hitter

[notin]

Only Barnes is on Bloom, unless you count Story or Kike.

 

He still wants to blame Bloom for the cliff.

 

And Diekman, but the 4 of them only account for roughly $40mill and still kicked in roughly 2.4 fWAR. That’s less money and more fWAR than the combination of Sale and Price…

Edited September 25, 2022 by notin

[moonslav59]

And Diekman, but the 4 of them only account for roughly $40mill and still kicked in roughly 2.4 fWAR. That’s less money and more fWAR than the combination of Sale and Price…

 

I was thinking major expenditures, but even Diekman case turned positive after the trade that dumped his $4M for 2023, about $1M from this year and netted us a starting catcher in McGuire.

[notin]

players who underperform don’t stick around unless they are under multi-year contracts. The FO guys and the manager are even easier to replace. Bloom has had 3 years. Cora got 3 extra seasons for his championship. IMO, it is time to change the personnel at the top. Sam Kennedy hasn’t made a great case for staying either. Buh Bye.

 

And if those multi year deals are loaded with lots of money and no performance, how is that the fault of the guy who inherited them?

 

Sale, Price, Eovaldi and Martinez were about $81mill in AAV on that payroll and contributed a total of 1.3 fWAR. Or roughly half of what Trevor Story kicked in, which he did for a little over a quarter of the cost.

 

Price, Eovaldi and Martinez are (hopefully) all gone after this year. Sale could easily continue to be a burden but hopefully he can contribute at some point. But he’s not on Bloom…

[notin]

I was thinking major expenditures, but even Diekman case turned positive after the trade that dumped his $4M for 2023, about $1M from this year and netted us a starting catcher in McGuire.

 

Paxton wasn’ta good one for Bloom, either. At least not yet…

[notin]

Only Barnes is on Bloom, unless you count Story or Kike.

 

He still wants to blame Bloom for the cliff.

 

 

This “cliff” was accurately predicted on this board for years. It’s inevitable when you have a bunch of expensive long term deals and no farm to kick in minimum wage support…

[moonslav59]

players who underperform don’t stick around unless they are under multi-year contracts. The FO guys and the manager are even easier to replace. Bloom has had 3 years. Cora got 3 extra seasons for his championship. IMO, it is time to change the personnel at the top. Sam Kennedy hasn’t made a great case for staying either. Buh Bye.

 

So, just can them all for the sake of change?

 

The one major complaint against Bloom, and I hardly ever see the Bloom bashers use it, is more of a hindsight point. Bloom should have/could have foreseen the coming declines of returning vets and traded them before their declines. Many would have been after the promising 2021 season, and I can just imagine the bashers' reaction had he traded all major players but Bogey, Devers, Vaz, Housk and Whitlock.

 

A GM who inherits players about to decline can choose to maximize their value by trading them when their stock is high. Fan reaction to trading players after good years can often be extreme. (See trading Renfroe, although the disgust was equally about the return we got.)

[moonslav59]

This “cliff” was accurately predicted on this board for years. It’s inevitable when you have a bunch of expensive long term deals and no farm to kick in minimum wage support…

 

If you notice, many of the biggest Bloom bashers were cliff deniers. No coincidence.

 

[moonslav59]

Paxton wasn’ta good one for Bloom, either. At least not yet…

 

Yes. A big omission on my part, at least for 2023 only.

[a700hitter]

And if those multi year deals are loaded with lots of money and no performance, how is that the fault of the guy who inherited them?

 

Sale, Price, Eovaldi and Martinez were about $81mill in AAV on that payroll and contributed a total of 1.3 fWAR. Or roughly half of what Trevor Story kicked in, which he did for a little over a quarter of the cost.

 

Price, Eovaldi and Martinez are (hopefully) all gone after this year. Sale could easily continue to be a burden but hopefully he can contribute at some point. But he’s not on Bloom…

You are entitled to your opinion. They finished last. That is on Bloom and Cora and Kennedy. Easily replaceable. Fungible executives. Buh Bye. That is what I would do if I was ownership.

[notin]

Yes. A big omission on my part, at least for 2023 only.

 

Bradley, too.

 

He absolutely made some contract mistakes. But making a mistake on a 2 year $20 mill contract isn’t in the same league as making one on a 5 year $145 mill contract…

[moonslav59]

And if those multi year deals are loaded with lots of money and no performance, how is that the fault of the guy who inherited them?

 

Sale, Price, Eovaldi and Martinez were about $81mill in AAV on that payroll and contributed a total of 1.3 fWAR. Or roughly half of what Trevor Story kicked in, which he did for a little over a quarter of the cost.

 

Price, Eovaldi and Martinez are (hopefully) all gone after this year. Sale could easily continue to be a burden but hopefully he can contribute at some point. But he’s not on Bloom…

 

One could argue that Bloom could have traded these guys, but the very people who bash Bloom the most, except for maybe Red (to his credit), would have been the most irate had he done that right before their decline. (In some cases, he'd have had to pay part of their contracts, spurring even harsher criticism.)

[notin]

One could argue that Bloom could have traded these guys, but the very people who bash Bloom the most, except for maybe Red (to his credit), would have been the most irate had he done that right before their decline. (In some cases, he'd have had to pay part of their contracts, spurring even harsher criticism.)

 

The worst of these deals wasn’t tradable. At no point in Chris Sale’s 5 year $145mill contract was he healthy enough for any team to even stay on the phone.

 

I’ve heard some before say Bloom should have traded a lot of these deadweight deals. Look what it took to unload half of Price. Who wants more trades like that? Do we even have a player good enough to make another team consider taking Sale?

 

Eovaldi was awesome in 2021 and trading him before 2022 would have been an massive PR hit. Heck, trading Renfroe didn’t go over well, and it didn’t help that Binelas turned out to be a 22yo guy with a .630 OPS in AA. Of course, what everyone forgot is Renfroe at age 22 had a .670 OPS in AA. So I not sure that deal was as lopsided as many claim.

 

Really the only tradable was Martinez, who has been declining over the past 3 years in every category except salary…

[a700hitter]

Maybe we can rehire Benny. He’s lighting it up with 4 consecutive last place finishes with the Pirates. That is his specialty. Oh, but he has a 5 year plan, so let’s see how that works out. Many like his approach. He had 3 last place finishes with the Red Sox in 4 seasons and 7 of 8 in his career. That is quite a record, but he has learned to finish last much more cheaply.

[a700hitter]

Paxton wasn’ta good one for Bloom, either. At least not yet…

Do you think this has any chance of working out?

[dgalehouse]

.. My feeling is that it is best to be objective and results oriented. A lot of folks let their personal likes and dislikes affect their judgment. That applies to evaluating a GM , manager , player or just about anything else in life for that matter. When you hear a lot of excuses , explanations and rationalizations for lack of success , it is not at all productive . I guess it is human nature , but I don't think it is too smart.

[a700hitter]

.. My feeling is that it is best to be objective and results oriented. A lot of folks let their personal likes and dislikes affect their judgment. That applies to evaluating a GM , manager , player or just about anything else in life for that matter. When you hear a lot of excuses , explanations and rationalizations for lack of success , it is not at all productive . I guess it is human nature , but I don't think it is too smart.

Agreed. The “But what about all the injuries?” excuse carries little weight with me.

[moonslav59]

Bradley, too.

 

He absolutely made some contract mistakes. But making a mistake on a 2 year $20 mill contract isn’t in the same league as making one on a 5 year $145 mill contract…

 

Still, if you compare the complete financial vs return for all of Bloom's winter additions vs DD's returning players, the balance sheet would be very unbalanced.

 

In Lux Tax Dollars:

 

Bloom in-season additions (salaries not pre-rated)

6.0 Pham

Min Hosmer

Min McGuire

Min Almonte

Min Chang

 

Bloom winter additions:

23.3 Story

10.0 Paxton

9.38 Barnes

7.0 Wacha

5.0 Hill

4.0 Diekman (traded for McGuire)

3.0 Strahm

Min Refsnyder

 

Bloom previous additions:

7.0 Kike

3.6 Dugo

2.7 Pivetta

1.2 Arroyo

Min Whitlock

Min Schreiber

Min Wong

Min German

Min Cordero, Seabold, Wink, Kelly, Ort, RHern, Downs

 

DD inherited:

25.6 Sale

22.0 JD

17.0 Nate

1.40 Taylor

Min Houck, Dalbec, Crawford, Bello, Casas, Duran (drafted), Mata (IFA)

 

Pre DD:

20.0 Bogey

11.2 Devers

Min DHern, Bazardo

 

To me, this breakdown tells a significant story about Bloom's additions vs inherited players, and the best inherited players are pre-DD, the second best are DD drafted or IFA, and the worst are DD acquired via trade, FA or extensions players.

 

[moonslav59]

.. My feeling is that it is best to be objective and results oriented. A lot of folks let their personal likes and dislikes affect their judgment. That applies to evaluating a GM , manager , player or just about anything else in life for that matter. When you hear a lot of excuses , explanations and rationalizations for lack of success , it is not at all productive . I guess it is human nature , but I don't think it is too smart.

 

I think choosing just W-Ls records is a subjective choice.

 

"Results orientated" should include farm building and grading the results of each move made by Bloom and not by previous GMs. That is as "objective" as your choice of "rationalized" evaluation.

[moonslav59]

Still, if you compare the complete financial vs return for all of Bloom's winter additions vs DD's returning players, the balance sheet would be very unbalanced.

 

In Lux Tax Dollars:

 

Bloom in-season additions (salaries not pre-rated)

6.0 Pham

Min Hosmer

Min McGuire

Min Almonte

Min Chang

 

Bloom winter additions:

23.3 Story

12.0 JBJ

10.0 Paxton

9.38 Barnes

7.0 Wacha

5.0 Hill

4.0 Diekman (traded for McGuire)

3.0 Strahm

Min Refsnyder

 

Bloom previous additions:

7.0 Kike

3.6 Dugo

2.7 Pivetta

1.2 Arroyo

Min Whitlock

Min Schreiber

Min Wong

Min German

Min Cordero, Seabold, Wink, Kelly, Ort, RHern, Downs

 

DD inherited:

25.6 Sale

22.0 JD

17.0 Nate

1.40 Taylor

Min Houck, Dalbec, Crawford, Bello, Casas, Duran (drafted), Mata (IFA)

 

Pre DD:

20.0 Bogey

11.2 Devers

Min DHern, Bazardo

 

To me, this breakdown tells a significant story about Bloom's additions vs inherited players, and the best inherited players are pre-DD, the second best are DD drafted or IFA, and the worst are DD acquired via trade, FA or extensions players.

 

 

I forgot to add JBJ to Bloom's winter additions. (I added on this post, but the editing button is not working, today.)

 

If you do a WAR calculation for each category and then convert to WAR per dollar, the picture will become clear and is as objective as any one using W-L results as the only gauge for grading a GM's performance and effect on an inherited, troubled team about to go on a highly restricted budget.

 

That's not excuse-making. It is reality.

Edited September 25, 2022 by moonslav59

[dgalehouse]

Agreed. The “But what about all the injuries?” excuse carries little weight with me.

 

Yup. Making excuses for failure tends to breed more failure. And more excuses.

[moonslav59]

Yup. Making excuses for failure tends to breed more failure. And more excuses.

 

Knee jerk reactionary moves breed success and less excuse making?

[Bellhorn04]

.. My feeling is that it is best to be objective and results oriented. A lot of folks let their personal likes and dislikes affect their judgment. That applies to evaluating a GM , manager , player or just about anything else in life for that matter. When you hear a lot of excuses , explanations and rationalizations for lack of success , it is not at all productive . I guess it is human nature , but I don't think it is too smart.

 

If it was all about the results of a single season, Dombrowski would have been terminated early in his tenure with the Tigers, and Theo would have been canned early in his tenure with the Cubs.

 

Canning them would have been objective and results oriented, according to you.