2022 Bullpen Thread

[Maxbialystock]

We desperately need 2 quality right handed relief pitchers. Preferably a high end set up man and a high end closer.

 

I think you mean lefties. mlb.com says Taylor, who was our best last year vs. lefty hitters, is due back in July. He just pitched twice for AA Portland and could return soon.

[JDavis76]

Listen up for another dictum from Chairman Max--

 

Knock off the whining about the bullpen because, without making a single trade or acquisition, the Sox already have the ingredients for a good one.

 

When Whitlock returns, which should be soon, he will join the bullpen.

 

Whitlock, Schreiber, who has been unbelievably good this season and who shut down the the heart of the Jays order twice in this recent series, and Mr. Unvaccinated will take care of all 8th and 9th inning situations in winnable games. That's the sore spot everyone complains about, and those three can make it a strength. Now and then, they could even handle the 7th inning as well.

 

I think any of them could close. My personal preference would be Schreiber, but Houck now has six straight saves and no blown saves and should keep the job. Besides, there's bound to be a game or two when he needs to rest.

 

Until Sale and Eovaldi return, the above will put some pressure on the rotation, currently Pivetta, Wacha, Hill, Winckowski (who has indeed buckled down), and A Player To Be Named Later. Not great, but not terrible.

 

As for the rest of the bullpen, I'm no expert, but think Davis, Strahm, Danish, Brasier, Valdez, and even Sawamura would suffice--although I like that new guy Plawecki

 

For you doubting thomases, consider this: if Houck had been available vs. the Jays, the Sox win the series. Adding Whitlock will seal the deal.

 

Or not.

[Maxbialystock]

Or not.

 

You dare to disagree with the only one on the game thread last night who predicted the Sox would win before the 10th inning and even bet on the outcome?

 

Houck wasn't a sure thing, but he does have six straight saves and a June ERA of 1.54. You really don't think he would have been better than Danish (with a 6.48 ERA in June and no saves this season or any other) pitching the 9th inning Tuesday night?

[JDavis76]

You dare to disagree with the only one on the game thread last night who predicted the Sox would win before the 10th inning and even bet on the outcome?

 

Houck wasn't a sure thing, but he does have six straight saves and a June ERA of 1.54. You really don't think he would have been better than Danish (with a 6.48 ERA in June and no saves this season or any other) pitching the 9th inning Tuesday night?

 

He may have performed better than pastry, err, I mean, danish, but we will never know. Anything else is pure speculation.

[Larry Cook]

Sale is working his way to Boston.

Taylor is working his way to Boston.

Their were reports that Whitlock is close.

 

Has anybody got an update in eovaldi?

[Maxbialystock]

He may have performed better than pastry, err, I mean, danish, but we will never know. Anything else is pure speculation.

 

Speculation, my aunt fanny. This month was Houck's best single month ever as a reliever: ERA 1.54, 6 of 6 saves including 2 vs. the Cardinals and 1 vs. the Guardians, 1 win, and 1 hold.

 

This will no doubt surprise you, but there are in fact differences between the skill/success levels of different closers--a reality that has haunted the Sox for big chunks of this season.

 

We also have empirical evidence that good relievers made a difference in this Jays series. Schreiber was sent in to face the heart of the Jays order not once, but twice, and both times shut them down.

[Maxbialystock]

Sale is working his way to Boston.

Taylor is working his way to Boston.

Their were reports that Whitlock is close.

 

Has anybody got an update in eovaldi?

 

They are saying July, but no hint about before or after the ASG. He threw his first bullpen session in three weeks yesterday. "Low back inflammation" sounds tricky to me.

[JDavis76]

Speculation, my aunt fanny. This month was Houck's best single month ever as a reliever: ERA 1.54, 6 of 6 saves including 2 vs. the Cardinals and 1 vs. the Guardians, 1 win, and 1 hold.

 

This will no doubt surprise you, but there are in fact differences between the skill/success levels of different closers--a reality that has haunted the Sox for big chunks of this season.

 

We also have empirical evidence that good relievers made a difference in this Jays series. Schreiber was sent in to face the heart of the Jays order not once, but twice, and both times shut them down.

 

I don't disagree that there are certainly differences between the skill level of different closers.

 

But that does not guarantee that houck would have shut them down, regardless of what he has done this month or against the cardinals and the Guardians. Clay Holmes hadn't let a up a run for 2 months and then blew a save. Did what he accomplished during those two months have anything to do with blowing that save? So my point stands, purely speculation.

[Nick]

He may have performed better than pastry, err, I mean, danish, but we will never know. Anything else is pure speculation.

 

Maybe we could have swept had Whitlock and Eovaldi been available last night.

 

We also have future Hall of Fame coach. I believe he missed 6 games due to Covid protocols.

 

I rather have dinner with Sale, Houck and Duran than one of those guys missing games due to positive tests.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Nick

[JDavis76]

Maybe we could have swept had Whitlock and Eovaldi been available last night.

 

Maybe, or maybe they get hit hard and the jays would have swept.

[Nick]

Maybe, or maybe they get hit hard and the jays would have swept.

 

My response was to the original poster name calling Houck. I bet Houck would beat the crap out of that poster even without having the 'jab'.

[Maxbialystock]

I don't disagree that there are certainly differences between the skill level of different closers.

 

But that does not guarantee that houck would have shut them down, regardless of what he has done this month or against the cardinals and the Guardians. Clay Holmes hadn't let a up a run for 2 months and then blew a save. Did what he accomplished during those two months have anything to do with blowing that save? So my point stands, purely speculation.

 

We won't agree and that's fine. You prefer to see the downside for the Sox and, no doubt because of moonslav, I prefer to see the upside. And watch out because, as I said, I alone predicted last night's outcome when the game was tied and well before the 10th innings--and I bet on it. I am, at least on talksox, now the seer of seers.

[JDavis76]

We won't agree and that's fine. You prefer to see the downside for the Sox and, no doubt because of moonslav, I prefer to see the upside. And watch out because, as I said, I alone predicted last night's outcome when the game was tied and well before the 10th innings--and I bet on it. I am, at least on talksox, now the seer of seers.

 

No, it's not about what I prefer. It's about the fact that there is absolutely no way to know whether houck would have closed that game out. He may very well have. He also may have given up a 3 run dinger. There's no way to know.

[Maxbialystock]

No, it's not about what I prefer. It's about the fact that there is absolutely no way to know whether houck would have closed that game out. He may very well have. He also may have given up a 3 run dinger. There's no way to know.

 

Oh, good grief. "There's no way to know" is tantamount to saying that statistics, shifts, ERA's, fWAR's, and all that stuff have no validity because they guarantee nothing. You can see no difference between a closer with 6 saves (and no blown saves) this month and and an ERA of 1.48--vs Danish, who has no saves and an ERA over 6.

[JDavis76]

Oh, good grief. "There's no way to know" is tantamount to saying that statistics, shifts, ERA's, fWAR's, and all that stuff have no validity because they guarantee nothing. You can see no difference between a closer with 6 saves (and no blown saves) this month and and an ERA of 1.48--vs Danish, who has no saves and an ERA over 6.

 

Again, Clay Holmes went 2 months without letting up a run and then he blew a save. None of what houck did previously matters on that night, pretty simple. Prove otherwise.

[moonslav59]

The blown save in Toronto sucked, and it got pretty scetchy I the 10th, but this pen has come together Nicely over the last few weeks.

 

I think pitchers getting more defined roles, and Houck becoming the closer was the major reason this happened.

 

(Look how quickly it fell apart when Houck was not available.)

[Larry Cook]

Sale looking like he wants to be activated after last night’s Portland outing!

 

That would give us a rotation of:

 

Sale

Pivetta

Wacha

Hill

Winkowski

 

And a bullpen of:

 

Houck (right)

Danish (right)

Brazier (right)

Robles (right)

Sawumura (right)

Scheibner (right)

 

Davis (left)

Deikman (left)

Strahm (left)

 

Who goes when sale is activated? Deikman is probably low man on the totem pole, but we have a lot of right handed relievers!

 

Could Hang’em Chaim get a prospect for danish?

[Bellhorn04]

Sale looking like he wants to be activated after last night’s Portland outing!

 

That would give us a rotation of:

 

Sale

Pivetta

Wacha

Hill

Winkowski

 

And a bullpen of:

 

Houck (right)

Danish (right)

Brazier (right)

Robles (right)

Sawumura (right)

Scheibner (right)

 

Davis (left)

Deikman (left)

Strahm (left)

 

Who goes when sale is activated? Deikman is probably low man on the totem pole, but we have a lot of right handed relievers!

 

Could Hang’em Chaim get a prospect for danish?

 

I think Robles or Danish is more likely to depart than Diekman.

[moonslav59]

I think Robles or Danish is more likely to depart than Diekman.

 

I think we trade Danish and DFA Diekman

[notin]

I think we trade Danish and DFA Diekman

 

I think neither happen…

[notin]

I think Robles or Danish is more likely to depart than Diekman.

 

The Sox are not going to unnecessarily deplete bullpen depth. Even Bracchio wasn’t dealt until after a DFA due to him having no options left.

 

I could see Danish, who has options, getting demoted. I could see Robles getting DFAd followed by a demotion or a minor league deal (again). In fact, I hope he gets DFAd…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox are not going to unnecessarily deplete bullpen depth. Even Bracchio wasn’t dealt until after a DFA due to him having no options left.

 

I could see Danish, who has options, getting demoted. I could see Robles getting DFAd followed by a demotion or a minor league deal (again). In fact, I hope he gets DFAd…

 

Robles is the kind of guy we will see resurface on MLB lowlights for years, blowing games in another uniform. We won't cheer or laugh at his misfortune, but our skin will still creep...

[Larry Cook]

I think Robles or Danish is more likely to depart than Diekman.

 

How would we rank the current bullpen from best to worst?

[Bellhorn04]

How would we rank the current bullpen from best to worst?

 

That's a little too much work for me, but you can pretty well figure it out by the way Cora uses them, or doesn't use them.

[Maxbialystock]

How would we rank the current bullpen from best to worst?

 

Schreiber WAR 1.4

Houck 1.3

Davis .8

Whitlock .8 (2.9 last year as a reliever)

Sawamura .4

Diekman .4

Strahm .1

Valdez 0

Brasier 0

Robles -.4

Barnes -1.0

Taylor (UNK)

 

Eovaldi is due back this month, so I think this is the rotation--

 

Pivetta WAR 2.6

Wacha 2.1

Eovaldi 1.3

Sale TBD

Hill (.3) or Winckowski (.4)

Edited July 1, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

My

How would we rank the current bullpen from best to worst?

 

1 Houck closer

1A Whitlock long man

3 Schreiber

4 Strahm (looking scary lately)

5 Brasier

6 Davis

7 Sawamura

8 Danish (to AAA)> Barnes > Diekman

DFA Robles

[Maxbialystock]

The blown save in Toronto sucked, and it got pretty scetchy I the 10th, but this pen has come together Nicely over the last few weeks.

 

I think pitchers getting more defined roles, and Houck becoming the closer was the major reason this happened.

 

(Look how quickly it fell apart when Houck was not available.)

 

I must have said a hundred times that Houck was not the best choice to close, but the sucker is 6-0 in save opportunities, and had an ERA of 1.54 in June. So much for my expertise.

 

However, I also like Schreiber and Whitlock coming in for the later innings in close games.

 

Overall, I also agree the bullpen is better than we (especially yours truly) have given them credit for being.

[Maxbialystock]

My

 

1 Houck closer

1A Whitlock long man

3 Schreiber

4 Strahm (looking scary lately)

5 Brasier

6 Davis

7 Sawamura

8 Danish (to AAA)> Barnes > Diekman

DFA Robles

 

I like it.

[JDavis76]

Oh, good grief. "There's no way to know" is tantamount to saying that statistics, shifts, ERA's, fWAR's, and all that stuff have no validity because they guarantee nothing. You can see no difference between a closer with 6 saves (and no blown saves) this month and and an ERA of 1.48--vs Danish, who has no saves and an ERA over 6.

 

So basically you are saying houck will never blow a save in his career and go down as the greatest closer in the history of the game.....

[Larry Cook]

Bullpen walks in a run today. They are a ticking time bomb every game!