2022 Bullpen Thread

[JDavis76]

Wow, this might be a first. I actually agree with two of bell's posts in a row!

[Maxbialystock]

Sorry, but if he's going to post false information then I am going to call him out on it.

 

While I disagree with Houck's weak excuse for not being vaccinated, I think it's a closed issue. FWIW, he could miss the same Jay series if his wife were having a baby. I don't disagree that these days his vaccination has/would have less effect than earlier.

 

We are roughly 27 months into this pandemic, and there can be no question that for big chucks of that period vaccinations, masking, and social distancing were key to preventing the spread and with it deaths and serious illnesses. The science of that is unassailable.

 

By the way, I was wrong saying the USA has the most deaths per capita from COVID. That dubious honor goes to Peru. However, we are in the top 20% despite the fact that the effective vaccines were developed here and were free--to say nothing of the fact that we are an advanced, industrialized nation, etc.

 

I do not think this is a political issue nearly as much as it is a reflection of who we are as a people. Just as Tanner Houck did, we each made our individual decisions about what we wanted to do and not necessarily about what might be good for us as a whole.

 

And why not? We've been doing that for our entire history. The first American flag said, "don't tread on me," but a big chunk of us remained loyalists during the American Revolution. Our bloodiest war was a civil war. Our Constitution guarantees not only individuals' rights, but the rights of the minority. And boy do we love protests.

 

IAW notin's request, this will be my post on the pandemic. At least for now.

[moonslav59]

It gets tiresome. We all know what the deal is, we don't need to hear about it over and over.

 

Houck has strong personal beliefs about it, obviously. And it's going to cost him $45,000.

 

Exactly, and he 100% has the right to make his own choices.

 

IMO, it cost more than $45K to Houck. It cost the team and fans, too, by increasing the odds we lose.

 

As a fan, I have the right to not like that, and wish he would choose the team over his personal beliefs or preferences, but nobody should be ab le to force him to get vaxxed.

 

My opinion is also that he should have to pay more than just for missed games, but I know the agreed upon rules don't allow for that. I'm not advocating the team or league break the rules. I'm just stating my feelings, and no I don't think it's political.

[dgalehouse]

I remember Sandy Koufax missing a World Series game because it was a Jewish holiday. He was pretty much universally respected for it . And rightly so . I'm sure there are other examples as well . People take off days from work for a variety of reasons . Disciplining Houck for it would be worse for team morale than him missing a couple of games. No reason for any resentment or animosity here. Support Houck and his personal decision.

[moonslav59]

Max , Please take your political views elsewhere. Keep it out of here no matter how much you are itching to argue.

 

Funny, your post right before this was very political, too.

[moonslav59]

Houck absolutely has the right to not get vaccinated. And I have the right to disagree with his choice, even if I respect his right to make it. I simply want him eligible to pitch in Toronto and am not going to discuss pro- or anti-vaccine stances beyond that point…

 

...and stating this does mean that's "all we care about."

 

This is the Red Sox forum. It's not supposed to be about politics, so in Houck's case, we come here to talk about how what he does or doesn't do affects the team. It doesn't mean we can't see there is more to the issue than winning, team loyalty and fan loyalty or pleasing. It's just all that should be discussed here, or it gets political- like it has (not my intention, at all.)

[JDavis76]

While I disagree with Houck's weak excuse for not being vaccinated, I think it's a closed issue. FWIW, he could miss the same Jay series if his wife were having a baby. I don't disagree that these days his vaccination has/would have less effect than earlier.

 

We are roughly 27 months into this pandemic, and there can be no question that for big chucks of that period vaccinations, masking, and social distancing were key to preventing the spread and with it deaths and serious illnesses. The science of that is unassailable.

 

By the way, I was wrong saying the USA has the most deaths per capita from COVID. That dubious honor goes to Peru. However, we are in the top 20% despite the fact that the effective vaccines were developed here and were free--to say nothing of the fact that we are an advanced, industrialized nation, etc.

 

I do not think this is a political issue nearly as much as it is a reflection of who we are as a people. Just as Tanner Houck did, we each made our individual decisions about what we wanted to do and not necessarily about what might be good for us as a whole.

 

And why not? We've been doing that for our entire history. The first American flag said, "don't tread on me," but a big chunk of us remained loyalists during the American Revolution. Our bloodiest war was a civil war. Our Constitution guarantees not only individuals' rights, but the rights of the minority. And boy do we love protests.

 

IAW notin's request, this will be my post on the pandemic. At least for now.

 

And, again, you are posting false information. The vax does not slow or prevent the spread.

[dgalehouse]

This is why folks get ulcers and heart attacks over a ball game. The idea that " we " have got to win this one . Houck is hurting " our" team. Try to relax and enjoy it . It's just a game . And I'm a die hard fan. But I have learned how to have fun with it . (That wasn't always the case with me.) I do support Houck and his personal decision. Hopefully , Cora , his teammates and Sox management do as well.

[moonslav59]

What about guys who might be on paternity leave around the time of a big series - do you advocate trading them too?

 

Bell, I certainly can't blame you or anyone for reading my post as I wrote it.

 

Someone asked where does Houck belong, if he can't pitch in Toronto, or something similar to that. I responded somewhat half-heartedly but also with the thought maybe not having Houck, Sale or Crawford for a playoff series in Toronto might add some incentive to trading one...

 

I replied:

 

"On another team, at the deadline?

 

It really is a big concern. Same with Sale."

 

I'm not for trading Houck or Sale. I put a question mark after my comment to reflect uncertainty about the idea. I still think their inability to pitch in Toronto could end up being a factor in a balanced trade offer. It would have to be pretty even deal for it to be a deciding factor.

 

I wish I never said it. It wasn't meant as a political statement or to stir up a hornet's nest. I'm pissed he won't pitch in Toronto. I'm not alone.

 

He should not pay more than the $45K he is supposed to lose, but I wish the rules were different. I respect that others disagree.

 

With out pen in the mess that it is, we need every good arm we have. Your point about Paternity leave is a great one, and got me thinking.

 

I don't like it when players miss key games for that and many other reasons, but I guess my priorities differ from those players and Houck, and obviously several posters, here. I'm okay with a player missing a game or two, everytime his wife has a baby and puts family ahead of team, but it bothers me that a player puts a personal belief ahead on team and those who help his salary be possible- the fans. I don't see this as a religious choice or putting the team ahead of God or family, but I guess I can see how some might view it like that or similar to that.

[Maxbialystock]

And, again, you are posting false information. The vax does not slow or prevent the spread.

 

Some truth in that. I've read you are less likely to get COVID if you are vaccinated. But the real value of the vaccinations and boosters is in making covid/omicron, if contracted, significantly milder and less lethal.

 

Thus my point about the United States having a relatively high mortality rate despite developing the first vaccines here and having a good system for getting people vaccinated. Masks and social distancing were/are the best helpers in preventing the spread of covid.

 

My apologies to notin.

[moonslav59]

And, again, you are posting false information. The vax does not slow or prevent the spread.

 

Is that a proven fact agreed upon by all scientists and doctors?

 

There is evidence that being vaxxed does lessen the chance of getting COVID or getting a large enough load to make it more serious and more easily spread.

 

I can provide several links, but I don't want to get into politics. I suggest you google, "Does a COVID Vaccine lower transmission of the virus or lower your viral load?" and look for reputable sites to see there is evidence that shows you are posting false information.

 

It's pretty much agreed upon that higher viral loads in infected patients increase transmission rates, and vaccines help lower viral loads.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What about guys who might be on paternity leave around the time of a big series - do you advocate trading them too?

 

I don't think this a great point -- unless his wife is having babies every other month and maybe during the postseason, or whenever Boston has to travel to Toronto.

 

Besides, I already said trading a guy who refuses to always be available for his team isn't a penalty to me; I just want players on my roster who are all in. As a fan I just want guys i can count on, and I always felt that way about my teammates when I played.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think this a great point -- unless his wife is having babies every other month and maybe during the postseason, or whenever Boston has to travel to Toronto.

 

Besides, I already said trading a guy who refuses to always be available for his team isn't a penalty to me; I just want players on my roster who are all in. As a fan I just want guys i can count on, and I always felt that way about my teammates when I played.

 

Well, obviously it wouldn't happen 3 times in a season, but I don't see how that makes it irrelevant. It could still happen at the time of a crucial series.

 

And I'm not talking about this being a penalty thing either, just about trading them to improve the team's chances.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Give me a freakin' break. You probably thought New England would be under water by 2020.

 

It works both ways buddy.

 

I'll put up my science against yours any day.

 

You're not my buddy. I try to avoid moronic buddies. Btw, unbuddy, mine was a valid question. Many of the un-vaxed are flat earthers; it comes with the territory.

Edited June 21, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[moonslav59]

Do Flat Earthers move to Florida for confirmation?

[Bellhorn04]

Do Flat Earthers move to Florida for confirmation?

 

mvp moved to Florida.

[notin]

And if I'm not mistaken, you have argued that it's up to the player whether they get those surgeries or not because it's their body.

 

So how is Houck's "selfish" decision different from the decision of a player not to get surgery?

 

Fair question.

 

I have defended the right of players to not get surgery, although I have also questioned those decisions, too. (Example - Sale waiting until March for TJ.). Just like I did with Houck.

 

The one thing I did that wasn’t fair was I assumed why Houck was vaccinated. And there are other potential reasons. For example, I didn’t consider he might be allergic to the vaccine.

 

The only thing I know for certain is the reason wasn’t a fear of needles…

[moonslav59]

mvp moved to Florida.

 

My second question: what do Flat Earthers do when the come to a mountain range?

[JDavis76]

Do all condescending *******s that live in Texas spend morning, noon and night on a baseball forum seeking confirmation? Edited June 22, 2022 by JDavis76

[Larry Cook]

Brazier entering the game with us up by one run against Detroit! What could possibly go wrong?

[moonslav59]

Brazier entering the game with us up by one run against Detroit! What could possibly go wrong?

 

Nothing was one unforeseen option.

[Bellhorn04]

Nothing was one unforeseen option.

 

Cora with the major stones having Brasier pitch 2.

[notin]

Cora with the major stones having Brasier pitch 2.

 

It seems a little time in Worcester has set Brasier straight. Next down - Barnes!!

[moonslav59]

Cora with the major stones having Brasier pitch 2.

 

For some reason, I've always kinda liked Brasier, even through some rough times.

 

He reminds me of an average Joe off the streets that made it to the big dance. He has some nice pitches, but he has certainly been very unreliable for quite some time, now, and has often been on the IL.

 

I've been off his bandwagon, recently, but maybe running along side it.

 

As we all know, RP'ers are up and down, both within a season and season to season, and maybe this will be the start of a prolonged upswing.

 

We need all the upswings we can get from our pen.

[moonslav59]

It seems a little time in Worcester has set Brasier straight. Next down - Barnes!!

 

Easier said than done.

 

Brasier has options.

[Bellhorn04]

It seems a little time in Worcester has set Brasier straight.

 

A very little time.

[Kimmi]

And as baseball fan who cares about his entire team -- any suggestion about trading Houck wasn't to penalize him for his personal choices -- but purely from a fan standpoint: I want guys on my team that I can rely on to play for my team, who will always be available... especially in the biggest games against division rivals. Period.

 

I don't like that Houck isn't vaccinated and won't be able to play in Toronto. That said, I have to respect his decision. It's his choice.

 

My only hope is that this doesn't become any kind of an issue within the clubhouse. If the Sox blow a save in the 9th inning without Houck, you know the media will be all over this. This is on Cora and the team leaders to keep this from becoming any kind of a distraction or problem. Even if there isn't a blown save, Cora needs to make sure that Houck is not shunned in any way for 'not being a team player'.

 

Best case scenario, the Sox take an early lead each game and win every game by 5+ runs.

[Kimmi]

Wow, this might be a first. I actually agree with two of bell's posts in a row!

 

You should agree with Bell more often.

[mvp 78]

mvp moved to Florida.

 

The Earth isn't flat, it's hollow.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't like that Houck isn't vaccinated and won't be able to play in Toronto. That said, I have to respect his decision. It's his choice.

 

My only hope is that this doesn't become any kind of an issue within the clubhouse. If the Sox blow a save in the 9th inning without Houck, you know the media will be all over this. This is on Cora and the team leaders to keep this from becoming any kind of a distraction or problem. Even if there isn't a blown save, Cora needs to make sure that Houck is not shunned in any way for 'not being a team player'.

 

Sale of course is not vaxed either.