2022 Bullpen Thread

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The bullpen could be an easier fix

 

1. Keep Houck in the pen. Make him a closer/high leverage pitcher.

2. Bring up Seabold for the rotation (to replace Houck).

3. DFA Barnes. Just to keep Cora from using him in the 10th.

4. Bring up Winckowski until Hill comes back from COVID. The Sox bullpen would get better if they left out here’s there instead of using them as starter depth.

5. Schreiber looks good in limited action. Crawford does not. Demote Crawford for now.

 

If we're replacing players, the first thing I'd do is package Houck and Crawford and trade them. Houck can bring back some value, and letting him go "do anything" (except always be available) to another club sends a message to the Red Sox or at least Red Sox fans that we're all in this together -- just like the first-place unified Yankees.

[notin]

If we're replacing players, the first thing I'd do is package Houck and Crawford and trade them. Houck can bring back some value, and letting him go "do anything" (except always be available) to another club sends a message to the Red Sox or at least Red Sox fans that we're all in this together -- just like the first-place unified Yankees.

 

It’s a bit early for external solution. Try the internal ones first, since those can almost always be undone if they don’t pan out…

[mvp 78]

If we're replacing players, the first thing I'd do is package Houck and Crawford and trade them. Houck can bring back some value, and letting him go "do anything" (except always be available) to another club sends a message to the Red Sox or at least Red Sox fans that we're all in this together -- just like the first-place unified Yankees.

 

Does Crawford have any value? Teams know he can't play in Toronto. He's been hit around a little.

[mvp 78]

It’s a bit early for external solution. Try the internal ones first, since those can almost always be undone if they don’t pan out…

 

Zack Kelly deserves a shot. I'm not sure what other arms they want to see in the pen. If they'd rather keep Winckowski and Seabold in the rotation, I'm not sure where they help out right now.

[mvp 78]

Darwinzon has been his usual self, an extreme version of Diekman.

[notin]

Does Crawford have any value? Teams know he can't play in Toronto. He's been hit around a little.

 

His problem isn’t that he can’t play in Toronto. It’s that he should be playing in Worcester.

 

For now. I haven’t given up on him totally…

[notin]

Darwinzon has been his usual self, an extreme version of Diekman.

 

He just reminds me of a Simpson’s scene.

 

Homer (as alter ego Max Power): There’s three ways to do anything. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way!

Lisa: Isn’t that the wrong way?

Homer: Yes! But faster!

[notin]

Zack Kelly deserves a shot. I'm not sure what other arms they want to see in the pen. If they'd rather keep Winckowski and Seabold in the rotation, I'm not sure where they help out right now.

 

Seabold and/or Winckowski could help out in the rotation. Then maybe the Sox could stop draining the bullpen every time someone goes down.

 

I really don’t get why they don’t call up one. Both are on the 40 man already. Neither is so young service time is a concern.

 

It’s a bit baffling…

[mvp 78]

Seabold and/or Winckowski could help out in the rotation. Then maybe the Sox could stop draining the bullpen every time someone goes down.

 

I really don’t get why they don’t call up one. Both are on the 40 man already. Neither is so young service time is a concern.

 

It’s a bit baffling…

 

With Wacha out, have they said what the plan is?

[notin]

With Wacha out, have they said what the plan is?

 

Yesterday it was Houck…

[mvp 78]

Yesterday it was Houck…

 

I don't like that plan. Houck to the closer role. One of the WOO guys to the rotation.

[moonslav59]

I don't like that plan. Houck to the closer role. One of the WOO guys to the rotation.

 

I may have missed it, but do you have a better idea?

[notin]

I may have missed it, but do you have a better idea?

 

One of the WOO guys - meaning Winckowski or Seabold…

[moonslav59]

OPS Against by Inning

 

.550 6th

.608 9th

.700 7th

.754 8th

 

(1.340 10th in 29 PAs)

[moonslav59]

2022 OPS Against

 

.411 Strahm

.412 Schreiber

.432 Whitlock

.467 Wacha

 

.556 Valdez

.581 Robles

.622 Hill

.651 Sawamura

 

.689 Houck

.702 Eovaldi

.721 Davis

 

.762 Danish

.769 Brasier

.794 Pivetta

.795 Barnes

.857 Diekman

 

.997 Crawford

[Larry Cook]

I think Hang’em Chaim recently said something to the effect of “panicking in this sport can lead to a massive world of hurt!

[moonslav59]

I think Hang’em Chaim recently said something to the effect of “panicking in this sport can lead to a massive world of hurt!

 

That's why most board member would be terrible GMs.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Frank German, the prospect the Yankees gave Boston to take Ottavino's contract a year ago, has been a lights-out reliever for Portland: 8 IP, 3-0, 0.00 ERA, 2 H, 0 BB, 15 K.

 

Those numbers are near perfect. Isn't that the kind of guy the all-in parent club would promote to help them go for it? Or is Bloom waiting for him to fail in the minors so he can make the proper adjustments to prepare for failure in the bigs? He's 24 years old.

[jacksonianmarch]

Frank German, the prospect the Yankees gave Boston to take Ottavino's contract a year ago, has been a lights-out reliever for Portland: 8 IP, 3-0, 0.00 ERA, 2 H, 0 BB, 15 K.

 

Those numbers are near perfect. Isn't that the kind of guy the all-in parent club would promote to help them go for it? Or is Bloom waiting for him to fail in the minors so he can make the proper adjustments to prepare for failure in the bigs? He's 24 years old.

 

Yanks dealt him to the sox with Ottavino because they knew he wasn't going to be a starter. Sox dicked around with him as a starter for another year. He's got an overpowering FB and a good change. Otherwise, he has no real third pitch. He is a Tommy Kahnle type reliever. Sox should promote him.

[Old Red]

That's why most board member would be terrible GMs.

 

I agree, but on the other hand just because someone is a GM doesn’t mean they are a good one, and just because something may work in Tampa doesn’t mean it will work in Boston.

[notin]

Frank German, the prospect the Yankees gave Boston to take Ottavino's contract a year ago, has been a lights-out reliever for Portland: 8 IP, 3-0, 0.00 ERA, 2 H, 0 BB, 15 K.

 

Those numbers are near perfect. Isn't that the kind of guy the all-in parent club would promote to help them go for it? Or is Bloom waiting for him to fail in the minors so he can make the proper adjustments to prepare for failure in the bigs? He's 24 years old.

 

While you’re probably being sarcastic, isn’t there some legitimacy to having a step like that in a player’s development?

 

Anyone can beat up on inferior competitors, but not every player can handle equal or better competition. For all the talk people like to make about mental aspects of baseball - pressure, clutch, chemistry, contract issues - shouldn’t this be one?

 

Or do we want the minors to provide short term stopgap solutions that fizzle out after a couple weeks?

[Old Red]

That's why most board member would be terrible GMs.

 

Moon I’d trust your trades as a GM, but I wouldn’t let you near a pen to sign any 14 yr contracts.

[moonslav59]

Moon I’d trust your trades as a GM, but I wouldn’t let you near a pen to sign any 14 yr contracts.

 

Fair enough.

 

My whole point on the 14 year deal was that I'd give him what he's worth over 10-11 years but make it 14 to bring down the AVV and have the off-chance he might still be a plus years 12-14. He was pretty young, when I suggested 14 years.

 

The $400M number was at my peak of desperation to keep Betts here. It wasn't the only numbers I threw out there back then.

 

Fair game to bring up, though.

[mvp 78]

I may have missed it, but do you have a better idea?

 

Houck becomes closer. Bring up Seabold or Winckowski.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

While you’re probably being sarcastic, isn’t there some legitimacy to having a step like that in a player’s development?

 

Anyone can beat up on inferior competitors, but not every player can handle equal or better competition. For all the talk people like to make about mental aspects of baseball - pressure, clutch, chemistry, contract issues - shouldn’t this be one?

 

Or do we want the minors to provide short term stopgap solutions that fizzle out after a couple weeks?

 

Of course you're right on the development aspect, but my point is twofold: a guy like German has struggled already, but in his fourth year in pro ball has finally found success, and the Sox are desperate for reinforcements in the bullpen.

 

And yet, Bloom tells the Nation to be patient... for what, for the Red Sox to actually truly be good again and honestly all-in going for it? If so, just level with us -- we're big boys and girls, we can take it.

[mvp 78]

Of course you're right on the development aspect, but my point is twofold: a guy like German has struggled already, but in his fourth year in pro ball has finally found success, and the Sox are desperate for reinforcements in the bullpen.

 

And yet, Bloom tells the Nation to be patient... for what, for the Red Sox to actually truly be good again and honestly all-in going for it? If so, just level with us -- we're big boys and girls, we can take it.

 

I mean, they were "actually good again" just last season.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I mean, they were "actually good again" just last season.

 

But are we really rushing a pitcher if he strikes out two per inning and hasn't walked a batter yet? He's throwing to the same size plate as Gausman.

[notin]

But are we really rushing a pitcher if he strikes out two per inning and hasn't walked a batter yet? He's throwing to the same size plate as Gausman.

 

But unlike Gausman, he’s pitching to AA hitters, many of whom will never play in MLB and some because they can’t judge the strike zone and/or they can’t prolong at bats by fouling off close pitches.

 

I’m all for getting MiLB help, but Houck could and should be moved to closer/high leverage today and his spot in the rotation could and should go to Seabold or Winckowski…

Edited May 10, 2022 by notin

[mvp 78]

But are we really rushing a pitcher if he strikes out two per inning and hasn't walked a batter yet? He's throwing to the same size plate as Gausman.

 

Bloom doesn't have a history of moving guys from AA directly to MLB. I think he'll take his time with the MiLB guys. It has worked in Tampa and I need to trust that process. It may not be pretty for this year, but I think German could have an impact on the pen next year.

 

I think a guy like Zack Kelly should be given a look this year.

[JDavis76]

Bloom doesn't have a history of moving guys from AA directly to MLB. I think he'll take his time with the MiLB guys. It has worked in Tampa and I need to trust that process. It may not be pretty for this year, but I think German could have an impact on the pen next year.

 

I think a guy like Zack Kelly should be given a look this year.

 

Was it his call how fast players moved along in tampa?