2022 Bullpen Thread

[Bellhorn04]

A blown save is simply having a lead late in the game , then losing that lead. Not something that you want to see , especially when it results in a loss. A save represents a close game that goes into the win column. Some folks don't like those stats , but the object is to win.

 

There's a lot of random crap involved in it, too.

 

In the 10th inning the Yankees pen gave up one run and we gave up one run, but we get the blown save. Why? Because the game was in their park.

[notin]

There's a lot of random crap involved in it, too.

 

In the 10th inning the Yankees pen gave up one run and we gave up one run, but we get the blown save. Why? Because the game was in their park.

 

 

Saves and blown saves are too frivolous. There is a lot of irony in people decrying WAR but espousing the importance of saves…

[Bellhorn04]

Saves and blown saves are too frivolous. There is a lot of irony in people decrying WAR but espousing the importance of saves…

 

I guess it's because saves and blown saves seem like simple stats.

 

Denny is not wrong that having a strong bullpen and preserving leads are important, more than ever.

 

But the stats themselves are f**d up.

[Bellhorn04]

Saves and blown saves are too frivolous. There is a lot of irony in people decrying WAR but espousing the importance of saves…

 

Frivolous is a good word for it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Looks like this will be the dominate thread this season.

 

Whitlock looked great, until he threw a fastball for Lemahieu to do what he always tries to do every single time he bats against Boston (or anytime I've ever seen him): homer to right. If I expect it every DJ at bat, what do the pros in Red Sox' uniforms expect?

 

Kudos to Diekman, btw, for pitching DJ inside, even if he had to drill him. Sox should use a lefty match-up the rest of LeMahieu's career, tying him up with pitches breaking in on his hands.

 

Here's one old-school way to limit Cora's use of a litany of unreliable relievers: acquire or develop starters who can go more than five innings -- ideally to throw a seven-inning, no-hit shutout, like Manaea did yesterday. Of course, that may require trading a #12 and #26 prospect...

[Bellhorn04]

Looks like this will be the dominate thread this season.

 

Whitlock looked great, until he threw a fastball for Lemahieu to do what he always tries to do every single time he bats against Boston (or anytime I've ever seen him): homer to right. If I expect it every DJ at bat, what do the pros in Red Sox' uniforms expect?

 

Going into yesterday's game, DJ had a career OPS of .707 against the Red Sox, and 5 homers in 306 PA's. So it's not like he's been teeing off on us.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's one old-school way to limit Cora's use of a litany of unreliable relievers: acquire or develop starters who can go more than five innings -- ideally to throw a seven-inning, no-hit shutout, like Manaea did yesterday. Of course, that may require trading a #12 and #26 prospect...

 

You do have a vicious streak LOL

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Going into yesterday's game, DJ had a career OPS of .707 against the Red Sox, and 5 homers in 306 PA's. So it's not like he's been teeing off on us.

 

I'm not talking results -- he takes the same approach every single at bat: extend his arms and aim for the short porch in rightfield. Every single one of his clutch HRs are to right, against any team, including Houston in the playoffs. Ask Yankee fans when they ever remember him pulling a homer. That's my book on the hitter from watching him in two or three dozen games, and what I said when he stood in the box vs. Whitlock...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You do have a vicious streak LOL

 

I try not to waffle.

 

It's just hard to watch a team that's all-in, Sam Kennedy, throwing their #26 prospect in extra innings on Opening Day in Yankee Stadium, when a starter you could've traded him for is throwing a no-hitter on the other side of the country.

[Nick]

Looks like this will be the dominate thread this season.

 

Whitlock looked great, until he threw a fastball for Lemahieu to do what he always tries to do every single time he bats against Boston (or anytime I've ever seen him): homer to right. If I expect it every DJ at bat, what do the pros in Red Sox' uniforms expect?

 

Kudos to Diekman, btw, for pitching DJ inside, even if he had to drill him. Sox should use a lefty match-up the rest of LeMahieu's career, tying him up with pitches breaking in on his hands.

 

Here's one old-school way to limit Cora's use of a litany of unreliable relievers: acquire or develop starters who can go more than five innings -- ideally to throw a seven-inning, no-hit shutout, like Manaea did yesterday. Of course, that may require trading a #12 and #26 prospect...

 

Cora should have left Whitlock in......why come out after just giving up one run, to make it a tie ball game. He's better than anyone else.

 

There is no way Brasier was going to get out without giving up a run with inheriting a runner on second. He's hittable.

[notin]

I guess it's because saves and blown saves seem like simple stats.

 

Denny is not wrong that having a strong bullpen and preserving leads are important, more than ever.

 

But the stats themselves are f**d up.

 

 

Oh all the old school stats are just as f***ed up as the new school ones. Possibly more so because the math is more transparent.

 

But yes, a good bullpen is essential. That’s why I was hoping Houck would stay in it, and why I wished they would at least backfill his spot in the pen once Sale got hurt…

[notin]

Cora should have left Whitlock in......why come out after just giving up one run, to make it a tie ball game. He's better than anyone else.

 

There is no way Brasier was going to get out without giving up a run with inheriting a runner on second. He's hittable.

 

 

I’m ok with taking out Whitlock.

 

How many IP should he try to get out of one RP on opening day after an abbreviated spring training?

[Bellhorn04]

I try not to waffle.

 

It's just hard to watch a team that's all-in, Sam Kennedy, throwing their #26 prospect in extra innings on Opening Day in Yankee Stadium, when a starter you could've traded him for is throwing a no-hitter on the other side of the country.

 

I can't argue. Trading a couple of prospects for Manaea would have made sense to me too.

[Bellhorn04]

That was the classic game that either team could have won.

 

We needed to score another run in the 10th. King did a fine job. He's good.

[notin]

I can't argue. Trading a couple of prospects for Manaea would have made sense to me too.

 

 

I think the biggest disappointment of the off-season to me was not trying to get more pitching once it was known Sale was going to be down…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think the biggest disappointment of the off-season to me was not trying to get more pitching once it was known Sale was going to be down…

 

Typo: you omitted "legitimate, established, actual big league" from your post.

 

And yet, because of the half-mast staff they chose to carry into a Major League season, this year could rival 2020's franchise record for most guys appearing on the mound. What's the over-under: 47?

 

My disappointment -- it's really just distaste -- is when they say they're trying to win but don't make let's say sincere moves that so many other clubs obviously do (I know, the style here is stealth, but still...). Example: the Cubs cleaned house, but then signed Stroman and Suzuki. Maybe Bloom is waiting to clear the books next winter... then again, the Sox are already over the tax threshold now. So what up?

[notin]

Typo: you omitted "legitimate, established, actual big league" from your post.

 

And yet, because of the half-mast staff they chose to carry into a Major League season, this year could rival 2020's franchise record for most guys appearing on the mound. What's the over-under: 47?

 

My disappointment -- it's really just distaste -- is when they say they're trying to win but don't make let's say sincere moves that so many other clubs obviously do (I know, the style here is stealth, but still...). Example: the Cubs cleaned house, but then signed Stroman and Suzuki. Maybe Bloom is waiting to clear the books next winter... then again, the Sox are already over the tax threshold now. So what up?

 

 

It is entirely possible the Sox - who are still outspending the Cubs - don’t see Chris Sale as the asset fans see him as. It is also entirely possible they are correct.

 

But hey, only 3 years and $85million left on that deal…

Edited April 9, 2022 by notin

[Nick]

I’m ok with taking out Whitlock.

 

How many IP should he try to get out of one RP on opening day after an abbreviated spring training?

 

Pussifying of America continues.....my man Eovaldi threw 76 pitches.

 

I thought Cora was thinking about Hill and Whitlock completing a 9 inning game.

[Bellhorn04]

Pussifying of America continues.....my man Eovaldi threw 76 pitches.

 

I thought Cora was thinking about Hill and Whitlock completing a 9 inning game.

 

He may have been. But as soon as the game is tied the whole equation changes.

[moonslav59]

I do not like the " ghost runner" rule. It distorts the game. That said , the Yankee reliever did a better job of dealing with it than our guys did.

 

No doubt, but if blame has to be given- not that it has to be given- to one aspect of our pitching in game 1: starter vs pen, it was more Eovaldi's fault we lost.

[moonslav59]

Takes a lot of parsing to arrive at that, doesn't it?

 

Not really. Nate gave up 2 HRs and did worse than the pen.

 

Not by much, but he did.

[moonslav59]

 

And yet, because of the half-mast staff they chose to carry into a Major League season, this year could rival 2020's franchise record for most guys appearing on the mound. What's the over-under: 47?

?

I'll take the under on 35- not counting everyday players doing mop-up duty here and there.

[Bellhorn04]

Not really. Nate gave up 2 HRs and did worse than the pen.

 

Not by much, but he did.

 

I was just kidding about all the parsing.

[Maxbialystock]

No doubt, but if blame has to be given- not that it has to be given- to one aspect of our pitching in game 1: starter vs pen, it was more Eovaldi's fault we lost.

 

Agree with this caveat on Eovaldi. I think Plawecki does better with him than Vazquez. The box score says that Eovaldi gave up 3 ER in 5 innings and the bullpen 1 ER in 6 innings because those two Yankees on 2b in the 10th and 11th inning rightfully scored unearned runs.

 

I like tradition, but in this case I like the practicality of starting baserunners on 2b from the 10th inning on. Games are long enough without long extra inning games. Yesterday's game was played in under 4 hours.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'll take the under on 35- not counting everyday players doing mop-up duty here and there.

 

2020's "staff" used 27 "pitchers" in a 24-win summer.

 

Last year's staff -- excluding Ohtani wannabes (Aaruz, Arroyo, Marwin, Plawecki) -- used 33 pitchers... for a 92-win season.

 

I'll take the over on 35 for this 162.

[moonslav59]

Agree with this caveat on Eovaldi. I think Plawecki does better with him than Vazquez. The box score says that Eovaldi gave up 3 ER in 5 innings and the bullpen 1 ER in 6 innings because those two Yankees on 2b in the 10th and 11th inning rightfully scored unearned runs.

 

I like tradition, but in this case I like the practicality of starting baserunners on 2b from the 10th inning on. Games are long enough without long extra inning games. Yesterday's game was played in under 4 hours.

 

Yes, and how many runs would Eovaldi have given up had he started every inning with a man on 2nd?

[moonslav59]

2020's "staff" used 27 "pitchers" in a 24-win summer.

 

Last year's staff -- excluding Ohtani wannabes (Aaruz, Arroyo, Marwin, Plawecki) -- used 33 pitchers... for a 92-win season.

 

I'll take the over on 35 for this 162.

 

Our pen was supposed to suck, last year, too, and we used 33 pitchers.

 

This year, we have more "long guys," so I'm sticking with the under.

 

This 28 man roster may create more chances in April, though.

[Maxbialystock]

Pussifying of America continues.....my man Eovaldi threw 76 pitches.

 

I thought Cora was thinking about Hill and Whitlock completing a 9 inning game.

 

I object to your terminology. The more we give women to do, the better we are as a nation. I was not a big fan of adding a lot of women to the armed services, but it happened as a direct result of the all-volunteer force (1972 and after). Recruiting women, who comprise half our population, guaranteed a HSDG (high school diploma graduate) and upper mental category (2 or 1). They have been good soldiers, which I know from personal experience.

 

As for Eovaldi and his pitch count, that's based on some pretty reliable stats--to say nothing of the short spring training for all the pitchers.

[Bellhorn04]

The damn man on second to start the inning rule makes it very hard to judge the effectiveness of an extra inning RP'er's outing.

 

They don't count it as an earned run, but it kinda feels like one.

 

Officially, today our starter and pen did this:

 

SP: 5 IP 3 ER 5 Hits & 1 BB & 1 HBP & 2 HR

 

RP: 6 IP 1 ER (plus the 2 " non earned" runs allowed in extras.) 5 hits & 3 BB & 1 HBP & 1 HR

 

Just looking at the numbers, the pen did slightly better than Eovaldi.

 

 

Agree with this caveat on Eovaldi. I think Plawecki does better with him than Vazquez. The box score says that Eovaldi gave up 3 ER in 5 innings and the bullpen 1 ER in 6 innings because those two Yankees on 2b in the 10th and 11th inning rightfully scored unearned runs.

 

I like tradition, but in this case I like the practicality of starting baserunners on 2b from the 10th inning on. Games are long enough without long extra inning games. Yesterday's game was played in under 4 hours.

 

Both wrong. Our bullpen did not pitch 6 innings. They pitched 5 innings, or "5 innings plus", as it's sometimes put.

[moonslav59]

Both wrong. Our bullpen did not pitch 6 innings. They pitched 5 innings, or "5 innings plus", as it's sometimes put.

 

Still, 5 IP+ and 1 ER beats the hell out of 5 IP and 3 ERs.