Will there be a 2022 season?

[notin]

And each answer to those 3 new questions would generate 3 or more added questions.

 

I'm not sure MLB should seek to totally even our revenue and profits across the board, but I do think making rules that allow smaller markets to compete, at times, is worthwhile.

 

I also think some owners need to be incentivized to get out of this business and allow another owner to take over.

 

It's the stingy, cheap owners that hurt the game more than the biggest spenders, IMO.

 

Maybe we should add 4 expansion teams to MLB, but move the bottom two teams to AAA every year for 1 year, like some soccer league do.

 

That would add some incentive to winning!

 

THe problem with trying to add relegation into MLB is that there is no "lower league" to bring teams up from. The minor leagues are all affiliated with the MLB teams they would be replacing. If the Pirates and Tigers were to be relagated, where do they go? CAn't send them to AAA. The Pirates already frequently bring up their AAA team to play in MLB as it is. So where? The Atlantic League? The Nothern League? And MLB sees the debuts of the Kentucky Wild Health Genomes and the Lake County Corndogs?

 

 

 

(Yes, mvp78, I did use this as an opportunity to mention the Wild Health Genomes again.)

Edited March 6, 2022 by notin

[moonslav59]

THe problem with trying to add relegation into MLB is that there is no "lower league" to bring teams up from. The minor leagues are all affiliated with the MLB teams they would be replacing. If the Pirates and Tigers were to be relagated, where do they go? CAn't send them to AAA. The Pirates already frequently bring up their AAA team to play in MLB as it is. So where? The Atlantic League? The Nothern League? And MLB sees the debuts of the Kentucky Wild Health Genomes and the Lake County Corndogs?

 

 

 

(Yes, mvp78, I did use this as an opportunity to mention the Wild Health Genomes again.)

 

You'd send the MLB team to the AAA league where their own AAA team does not play.

 

It could work, but there are certain difficulties involved.

[moonslav59]

The Competitive Balance Tax has been an abject failure in its goal to produce more balance on the playing field. It's turned numerous owners into Max Bialystock, realizing they can make more money by producing a flop than producing a hit...

 

But, I keep hearing how the playoffs are a crapshoot and how many times teams like the Royals win it all and the A's and Rays keep coming close.

[notin]

You'd send the MLB team to the AAA league where their own AAA team does not play.

 

It could work, but there are certain difficulties involved.

 

And promote who? You need a team to replace them in MLB.

 

It works in English soccer leagues because they have multiple professional leagues not affiliated with each other in any respect. It might work in Japan, where struggling NPB teams get sent to the lesser PCL (do they do thuis already? I don't know.) But MLB is not set up for this with another competitive league.

 

Sending the Pirates to the PCL (their team plays in the Inetnatonal League I believe) is really just sending them to thier room without any dinner for a season. And then what do you do when they dominate the PCL, which they will? Send them back to MLB and punish someone else?

[notin]

But, I keep hearing how the playoffs are a crapshoot and how many times teams like the Royals win it all and the A's and Rays keep coming close.

 

They are a crapshoot when you get in. But when you own the Pirates and have a payroll of non-competitive players whose aggregate payroll is less than your share of competitive balance revenue, you'r e just intentionally producing a flop and cashing in on it. These small market owners have been all but proudly announcing this all through the negotiations. "Don't raise the tax limits and cut into the revenue I get without having to do anything!!"

[Bellhorn04]

But, I keep hearing how the playoffs are a crapshoot and how many times teams like the Royals win it all and the A's and Rays keep coming close.

 

You have somewhat of a point but you're also conflating some things.

 

If Kimmi was here I'm sure she would say that the reason the playoffs are a crapshoot is because of the nature of baseball and the randomness of a short series.

 

And some of the small market teams have done well for their payroll, but in the big picture they haven't won many championships. And some of them have become dismal, like Pittsburgh, Miami, Colorado etc.

[Bellhorn04]

What they really need to fix is the nature of these goddamn CBA negotiations!

 

Maybe the CBA's should be shorter in length, so the parties aren't as worried about getting locked into a horrible deal.

 

Maybe they need a systematic process to resolve issues, an agreement that after a certain point it goes automatically to an arbitrator.

 

I don't have the answer, but this has been one stupid spectacle.

[dgalehouse]

Of course. That is why MLB is a different business than Amazon or Wal-Mart.

MLB needs competition to thrive. They don't want to put each other out of business. That is what I am saying. And the NBA and NFL have numerous differences from MLB , which makes it easier for them to have a better shot at competitive balance. It is tougher succeed in a small market in MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

It's time for the government to call these guys out for being bozos, for f***ing up the game of baseball yet again, when there are much bigger problems going on in the world, when people could really use the national pastime.

[notin]

Of course. That is why MLB is a different business than Amazon or Wal-Mart.

MLB needs competition to thrive. They don't want to put each other out of business. That is what I am saying. And the NBA and NFL have numerous differences from MLB , which makes it easier for them to have a better shot at competitive balance. It is tougher succeed in a small market in MLB.

 

The NFL has the advantage of a very short season, allowing them to hype every single game and monopolize Sunday afternoons. Really that’s maybe it. But what advantage does the NBA, which has a lengthy schedule involving multiple games a week and has numerous teams in “small market” cities like Portland and Charlotte that just don’t have the same competitive issues as MLB? I don’t get your reasons here…

[notin]

The NFL has the advantage of a very short season, allowing them to hype every single game and monopolize Sunday afternoons. Really that’s maybe it. But what advantage does the NBA, which has a lengthy schedule involving multiple games a week and has numerous teams in “small market” cities like Portland and Charlotte that just don’t have the same competitive issues as MLB? I don’t get your reasons here…

 

In fact, one could (and should) argue competitive balance is far worse in the NBA, considering that from 1984 through 2018, only 9 different teams won a title. In that same stretch, 20 different teams won a World Series…

[moonslav59]

And promote who? You need a team to replace them in MLB.

 

It works in English soccer leagues because they have multiple professional leagues not affiliated with each other in any respect. It might work in Japan, where struggling NPB teams get sent to the lesser PCL (do they do thuis already? I don't know.) But MLB is not set up for this with another competitive league.

 

Sending the Pirates to the PCL (their team plays in the Inetnatonal League I believe) is really just sending them to thier room without any dinner for a season. And then what do you do when they dominate the PCL, which they will? Send them back to MLB and punish someone else?

 

I know the plan has difficulties, but I said how it could be done.

 

Add 4 expansion teams and send 2 down.

 

The following year, the worst two teams are sent down and the punishment for the previous two is over, and they come back.

 

My guess is, some teams would change ownership, real quick.

 

Maybe, if balance is achieved, the plan ends and we have 32 teams.

[dgalehouse]

The NFL has the advantage of a very short season, allowing them to hype every single game and monopolize Sunday afternoons. Really that’s maybe it. But what advantage does the NBA, which has a lengthy schedule involving multiple games a week and has numerous teams in “small market” cities like Portland and Charlotte that just don’t have the same competitive issues as MLB? I don’t get your reasons here…

 

Exactly . The fact that NFL teams have only 8 or 9 home games ( mostly on Sundays ) makes it easier to sell out the park. With TV revenue shared and a salary cap in place ,there is a lot of income and spending equality. The NBA has almost no player development . The colleges take care of that for them. It is pretty clear who the top prospects are. With the smaller number of players on a team , it only takes one or two stars to make a team a contender. Of course , the league likes to see powerhouse teams in certain places. A team like the Lakers can have low draft picks , yet still wind up with the superstars , as they have done for years. But it is easier for a bottom feeder to improve than it is in MLB.

[notin]

Exactly . The fact that NFL teams have only 8 or 9 home games ( mostly on Sundays ) makes it easier to sell out the park. With TV revenue shared and a salary cap in place ,there is a lot of income and spending equality. The NBA has almost no player development . The colleges take care of that for them. It is pretty clear who the top prospects are. With the smaller number of players on a team , it only takes one or two stars to make a team a contender. Of course , the league likes to see powerhouse teams in certain places. A team like the Lakers can have low draft picks , yet still wind up with the superstars , as they have done for years. But it is easier for a bottom feeder to improve than it is in MLB.

 

But as I pointed out, the competition is hardly balanced in the NBA. The Lakers have had multiple great runs in the past 40 years, while the Sacramento Kings haven’t had any.

 

And the NBA does hane minor leagues - actually often called developmental leagues, but I’m not really sure how this factors into competitive balance.

 

In fact, the NBA championship winner almost always comes from a very short list of teams, and the number of teams with no rings in the past 50 years is far greater on the NBA. Not to mention their contracts are insane compared to MLB, with several players making in excess of $40mill annually.

 

Yet their small market teams still survive and fare better than those in MLB…

Edited March 6, 2022 by notin

[notin]

One thing the NBA does that maybe MLB needs to consider is equalizing the money in trades. It makes Deadline Firesales (aka “we’re rebuilding!”) more difficult since you have to take money back anyway, so teams wouldn’t just dump players for no reason but to save cash, and it increases the value of expiring contracts..

[dgalehouse]

This whole debacle will result in MLB losing more fans. Maybe not the diehards who post on TalkSox and such , but definitely some of the marginal fans.

[Tedballgame]

This whole debacle will result in MLB losing more fans. Maybe not the diehards who post on TalkSox and such , but definitely some of the marginal fans.

 

I totally agree. People who have gone two years making sacrifices see billionaires and multi-millionaires fighting over money. They will definitely lose fans.

[moonslav59]

One thing the NBA does that maybe MLB needs to consider is equalizing the money in trades. It makes Deadline Firesales (aka “we’re rebuilding!”) more difficult since you have to take money back anyway, so teams wouldn’t just dump players for no reason but to save cash, and it increases the value of expiring contracts..

 

Selling off free-agents-to-be for prospects is one way smaller market teams can get better.

[moonslav59]

I totally agree. People who have gone two years making sacrifices see billionaires and multi-millionaires fighting over money. They will definitely lose fans.

 

Agreed.

 

They are begging for big trouble.

 

This is a new era. Losing fans may force some to other entertainment areas, and they may never come back.

 

Many more choices out there, now, than the last few times they did this and ended up getting the fans to come back.

[Tedballgame]

One thing the NBA does that maybe MLB needs to consider is equalizing the money in trades. It makes Deadline Firesales (aka “we’re rebuilding!”) more difficult since you have to take money back anyway, so teams wouldn’t just dump players for no reason but to save cash, and it increases the value of expiring contracts..

 

The NBA is a crap league where stars totally control where they play. MLB does not need to copy anything from the NBA. The NBA has low ratings for a reason. The product stinks.

[notin]

Selling off free-agents-to-be for prospects is one way smaller market teams can get better.

 

No. It’s the one several of them try repeatedly with the same deadend results year after year…

[moonslav59]

No. It’s the one several of them try repeatedly with the same deadend results year after year…

 

We did pretty good unloading Slocumb.

[notin]

The NBA is a crap league where stars totally control where they play. MLB does not need to copy anything from the NBA. The NBA has low ratings for a reason. The product stinks.

 

I guess their $8bill revenue fooled me…

[moonslav59]

No. It’s the one several of them try repeatedly with the same deadend results year after year…

 

The Rays are the Rays due to mastering this strategy.

[moonslav59]

The NBA is a crap league where stars totally control where they play.

 

Don't look, now, but every MLB star can choose where to play, too, unless they flame out before free agency- same as the NBA.

[Tedballgame]

We did pretty good unloading Slocumb.

 

One of the best trades, if not the best, in Red Sox history.

[moonslav59]

One of the best trades, if not the best, in Red Sox history.

 

We also got Jason Bay for Manny, and later drafted Workman with the pick we got when we lost Bay to free agency.

 

We used the money saved in the AGon, Beckett & Crawford deal to win a ring in 2013, too.

[jad]

I guess their $8bill revenue fooled me…

 

Do you think Ted has ever actually seen an NBA game?

[notin]

The Rays are the Rays due to mastering this strategy.

 

 

A new wrinkle requires a new strategy. The league shouldn’t maintain rules to accommodate a couple teams

[moonslav59]

A new wrinkle requires a new strategy. The league shouldn’t maintain rules to accommodate a couple teams

 

Just about every team has used this strategy at some point in time, including the examples I listed for the Sox.

 

I'm not saying the idea is bad, but to me, it doesn't fix the competitive balance issue, and it might make things worse.