Will there be a 2022 season?

[Old Red]

Like Hannity and Colmes?

 

Something like that.

[moonslav59]

Something like that.

 

How would the show ever end, if we both always need to get the last word?

 

Maybe just a fade out?

[Old Red]

How would the show ever end, if we both always need to get the last word?

 

Maybe just a fade out?

 

Well I think it would be fun, and entertaining.

[notin]

Right. So “hometown yuckers” is a compliment, but their absence, to use your words, will be a “refreshing change.” Yeah most of us are sick of all those things we like.

 

 

Right. Not a compliment. Just not in negative sense and nothing wrong with it and all your favorite announcers fit the bill, but therefore anyone in this category must go…

[notin]

Well I think it would be fun, and entertaining.

 

Get a podcast…

[Bellhorn04]

Well I think it would be fun, and entertaining.

 

Maybe for you and moon. The rest of us, not so much.

[Old Red]

Right. Not a compliment. Just not in negative sense and nothing wrong with it and all your favorite announcers fit the bill, but therefore anyone in this category must go…

 

Who said anything about anyone having to go?? I didn’t, and I’m not the one making the change, but just applauding it. I didn’t have to listen before, and you don’t have to listen now. You might not like it, but I’ve heard lots of people who do.

[mvp 78]

Get a podcast…

 

One of the Patreon tiers would be "OR and MS will only be allowed 1 post each on TalkSox per day."

[mvp 78]

Maybe for you and moon. The rest of us, not so much.

 

It's not enjoyable content.

[Old Red]

It's not enjoyable content.

 

You’re right, and I’ll do better.

[dgalehouse]

Have you ever passed on a chance to take a dig at people who don’t see things your way?

I have probably passed on a few. But it is mostly just good natured tweaking. I do notice that when a poster goes against the grain a bit , there are some on here who will respond with some pretty sarcastic put downs. And , quite frankly , you are sometimes guilty of it yourself.

[Old Red]

I have probably passed on a few. But it is mostly just good natured tweaking. I do notice that when a poster goes against the grain a bit , there are some on here who will respond with some pretty sarcastic put downs. And , quite frankly , you are sometimes guilty of it yourself.

 

The best thing I like about this site, and noticed from the beginnings is how welcoming everyone is on here, and how they encourage new, and different views, and opinions. Some more than others. Not all sites are like that, but like I have said before that I read many papers, and listen, and watch different talk shows, and that there is a big world out there of Red Sox Nation, and the opinions on here are just a very small sample size of what Red Sox fans really think.

[notin]

I think we can all agree that there is a baseball team in some league actually named the Kentucky Wild Health Genomes and that is spectacular…

[mvp 78]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/just-how-far-apart-are-the-league-and-the-mlbpa/

 

Update on the differences between the final MLB/MBLPA offers.

[mvp 78]

I think we can all agree that there is a baseball team in some league actually named the Kentucky Wild Health Genomes and that is spectacular…

 

Independent leagues don't count.

[mvp 78]

@MikeSilvermanBB

No proposals exchanged during roughly 90-minute informal meeting in NYC between 2 MLB & 2 MLBPA negotiators.

Still finalizing plans on when and where next round of talks will take place.

[moonslav59]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/just-how-far-apart-are-the-league-and-the-mlbpa/

 

Update on the differences between the final MLB/MBLPA offers.

 

Good breakdown.

 

Here is the exact middle ground on issues where a clear middle is distinguishable:

(My comments in red.)

Young Players:

Min salary: $712.5M with $15K raises each year. (Note: not even keeping up with inflation once the first big raise is given.)

Make it $715M with $15K raises.

 

Pre-arb bonus pool: $57.5M.

Make it an even $50M.

 

Super 2's: Players agreed to leave as is, if the rest of the deal works out, but the previous offer was 35% of players vs the leagues 22%. The split: 28.5%.

Just go with an even 33.3%

 

Service Time: Award One year to the top 10 WAR rookies. (I'd go top 15, and players drop grievance against cheap owners.)

 

Comp Bal Tax

Tax penalty: 35%/53.5%/81.5% (Make it $30%/50%/80%)

Lux Tax Limits:

$229M 2022

$250.5M 2026

 

How about?

$230M 2022

$232M 2023

$235M 2024

$240M 2025

$250M 2026

 

Playoff Expansion

12 teams

 

Pitch Clock: Yes in 2022.

 

Universal DH: Yes in 2022.

 

Robo Umps: YES, as soon as possible.

 

Limiting Defensive Shifts: No

 

Draft Lottery: Yes- the owners last proposal.

 

International Draft: Yes.

 

Revenue Sharing Structure: I have no idea

 

Here's the summation of this article...

If payrolls increased by $325 million in 2022 – a high-end estimate of what would happen relative to the previous CBA terms if the league simply accepted the union’s offer – that would mean aggregate league-wide payroll growth of 6.7% since 2017, the first year of the last CBA. That’s not an annual growth number, it’s a total – equivalent to a 1.3% annual growth rate. On a per-team basis, the difference in the two proposals works out to roughly $5.5 million in new spending in 2022 relative to last season. Increases in TV deals alone more than cover that, and low-payroll teams would bear less of the burden than high-payroll teams due to the amount of money that a higher CBT is expected to contribute to the overall total.

 

If the league wanted it, they could lock in a very gradual increase in payrolls, one that wouldn’t really do anything to jumpstart the stagnant payroll growth from 2017-21 and that would increase at a rate of roughly 1% per year thereafter. Given that every team is bringing in at least $100 million per year before selling any tickets or receiving revenue sharing, losing games over the sliver of a difference that exists between their proposals and those of the union seems foolhardy. But apparently $5.5 million per team — plus whatever other gains ownership feels it can make that I haven’t estimated monetarily — is too much for the league to concede despite the huge and uncertain cost associated with canceling games and delaying the season.

-fangraphs

[moonslav59]

Chance for more service time issues...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/canceled-regular-season-games-raise-the-possibility-for-a-dispute-regarding-service-time.html

[mvp 78]

I don't think the owners are going to just "meet in the middle." That's my worry about this be protracted.

[Bellhorn04]

The 2022 season is already partially ruined. Now it's just a question of how much more they can ruin it.

[mvp 78]

@ByJamesWagner

Per ⁦@EvanDrellich

⁩these owners — Bob Castellini (Reds), Chris Ilitch (Tigers), Ken Kendrick (Diamondbacks) & Arte Moreno (Angels) — objected to raising the luxury tax threshold to $220M, which was ultimately proposed to & rejected by players.

[moonslav59]

I don't think the owners are going to just "meet in the middle." That's my worry about this be protracted.

 

I get that feeling, too.

 

The better chance for an agreement is if the players cave on most issues and maybe get one or two things they want. Or the splits will be 60-70% in the owners direction.

 

The alternative is for the players to remain strong and firm and risk losing a full season. I'm not sure that would force the owners to budge, either.

 

Not looking good, right now.

 

The owners counter proposals have looked pathetic and barely move the needle.

[moonslav59]

@ByJamesWagner

Per ⁦@EvanDrellich

⁩these owners — Bob Castellini (Reds), Chris Ilitch (Tigers), Ken Kendrick (Diamondbacks) & Arte Moreno (Angels) — objected to raising the luxury tax threshold to $220M, which was ultimately proposed to & rejected by players.

 

I still think a good strategy by the players would be to give in on the lux tax issues- both the limit and the increased taxes, in return for a major giveback on min player salary and moderate giveback on arb/service time issues.

 

The rest seems within reach.

[mvp 78]

The guy who paid Justin Upton 100M, Pujols 240M, Vernon Wells 86M, CJ Wilson 78M and Josh Hamilton 125M shouldn't tell other people how to spend their money.

[mvp 78]

The 2022 season is already partially ruined. Now it's just a question of how much more they can ruin it.

 

@SPChrisHatfield

So I'm told today that a date for fan access at Fenway South has not yet been determined, but fans can pay for tours of JetBlue Park.

If you're down there in the near term, don't expect the usual open access to the back fields.

[Bellhorn04]

I get that feeling, too.

 

The better chance for an agreement is if the players cave on most issues and maybe get one or two things they want. Or the splits will be 60-70% in the owners direction.

 

The alternative is for the players to remain strong and firm and risk losing a full season. I'm not sure that would force the owners to budge, either.

 

Not looking good, right now.

 

The owners counter proposals have looked pathetic and barely move the needle.

 

To be totally "fair" about it, the owners have moved a significant amount from their original proposals, which were however ridiculous. I think they started by asking for the tax threshold to be pulled back to 180 million.

[moonslav59]

To be totally "fair" about it, the owners have moved a significant amount from their original proposals, which were however ridiculous. I think they started by asking for the tax threshold to be pulled back to 180 million.

 

One could say the initial player offer was ridiculous, too, so I get that, but to me the owners true starting point is status quo with a few additions like expanded playoffs, universal DH and cleaning up some minor issues.

 

The players true starting point might be to get back what they lost, if only by inflation calculations, and fixing the manipulation of player service time. Anything more is above and beyond status quo.

 

Looking at what the owner have agreed to give, beyond where they are at now, is absurdly very little.

[moonslav59]

The guy who paid Justin Upton 100M, Pujols 240M, Vernon Wells 86M, CJ Wilson 78M and Josh Hamilton 125M shouldn't tell other people how to spend their money.

 

He might argue he was forced to pay that to try and stay competitive with the even bigger spenders, but I totally agree with your point.

[mvp 78]

To be totally "fair" about it, the owners have moved a significant amount from their original proposals, which were however ridiculous. I think they started by asking for the tax threshold to be pulled back to 180 million.

 

Effective 2022, each team will be making at least 100M just from tv revenue (each team will get 60 from the league and whatever else they can make on their own). For smaller market teams to say they need to pull back, it just really makes the whole situation seem ridiculous.

[mvp 78]

He might argue he was forced to pay that to try and stay competitive with the even bigger spenders, but I totally agree with your point.

 

The Rays have found a way to not have to spend. Maybe these owners should work on that model. The A's have been competitive for a long time too without spending.