2021 Spring Training Discussion

[moonslav59]

Teeny, tiny sample sizes, but the Sox have 3 of MLB's top 11 in OPS (4 in the top 22):

 

1. Nimmo 2.036

2. Duran 1.845

4. Dalbec 1.800

11. Munoz 1.318

22. Arauz .909

 

(To qualify, players need 1.86 PA per team game played.)

[Kimmi]

Cora wants to put speedy players in the first couple of spots so the thumpers can bring them in. Kike is one of those. I suppose Verdugo would also fit. Got to be a decent hitter to be batting up front as it doesn't help to be fast if your OBP is low.

 

I like Verdugo leading off. I understand what Cora is trying to do, I just don't agree with it. At all. Your speedy players have more value hitting in front of your singles hitters rather than in front of the big bats. If he had speed and a good OBP, then that might be a different story.

[Larry Cook]

Interesting that Hernandez has two errors already this spring and barely a peep about it, but if that was devers making those errors this spring there would be 800 posts calling for him to be moved to first base!!!

[moonslav59]

Interesting that Hernandez has two errors already this spring and barely a peep about it, but if that was devers making those errors this spring there would be 800 posts calling for him to be moved to first base!!!

 

It's early, but EHern has been a minus at 2B over his career.

 

He's much better as a CF'er, and wow, imagine that- we need a CF'er.

[Larry Cook]

It's early, but EHern has been a minus at 2B over his career.

 

He's much better as a CF'er, and wow, imagine that- we need a CF'er.

 

Why does kora keep playing him at second base?

[moonslav59]

Why does kora keep playing him at second base?

 

I'm a huge Cora fan, but I'm baffled.

 

I can see, if they had hopes in Cordero in CF, but putting EHern at 2B and Verdugo in CF, it weakens 3-4 positions.

 

Maybe his plan is Duran in CF.

 

BTW, I don't expect to agree with everything a manger does, and I trust he knows more than I do.

[notin]

It's early, but EHern has been a minus at 2B over his career.

 

He's much better as a CF'er, and wow, imagine that- we need a CF'er.

 

I suppose Dave "Never Finished Lower Than 1st Place" Roberts is guilty of the same egregious error, since Hernandez has played over 1,000 innings at 2B in the last 3 years and only 500 in CF.

 

While the Sox need a CF, the non-Hernandez canddiates for the position are better than the non-Hernandez candidates for 2B. I'd rather see Cordero-Verdugo-Renfroe in the OF and EHern at 2B than seeing Arroyo in the everyday lineup...

[moonslav59]

I suppose Dave "Never Finished Lower Than 1st Place" Roberts is guilty of the same egregious error, since Hernandez has played over 1,000 innings at 2B in the last 3 years and only 500 in CF.

 

While the Sox need a CF, the non-Hernandez canddiates for the position are better than the non-Hernandez candidates for 2B. I'd rather see Cordero-Verdugo-Renfroe in the OF and EHern at 2B than seeing Arroyo in the everyday lineup...

 

The choice is really Cordero and Renroe vs off-handed pitchers vs Arroyo/Chavis/Gonzalez.

 

A Renfroe-Cordero platoon is much better than each playing everyday.

 

Here are the career splits:

 

vs RHP

.786 Cordero (243 PAs)

.740 Chavis (168 PAs)

.732 Gonzalez

.717 Renfroe

.678 Arroyo (176 PAs)

.673 EHern

 

vs LHPs

.912 Renfroe

.820 EHern

.724 Gonzalez

.699 Chavis

.597 Arroyo (129 PAs)

.573 Cordero (72 PAs)

 

There are better offensive options based on some small sample sizes, but when you factor in defense, I'm not so sure keeping EHern at 2B is the best idea.

 

Okay, let's say Chavis starts in AAA, and we discount Marwin's trashcan-banging season and just compare Arroy0 (.678) to Renfroe (.717) vs RHPs. Is Renfroe really that much better, off handed, as to make up the difference on defense at 3-4 positions? (worse at 2B, RF, CF and maybe LF)

 

Versus LHPs, Renfroe and EHern are playing- no doubt. So, who is the next best? Fine, throw out Chavis and Marwin, again, and Arroyo still looks better than Cordero on offense, small sample sizes and all.

 

[moonslav59]

I suppose Dave "Never Finished Lower Than 1st Place" Roberts is guilty of the same egregious error, since Hernandez has played over 1,000 innings at 2B in the last 3 years and only 500 in CF.

 

Look at the OF'ers Dave had to choose from:

 

2018-2020 Innings in Dodger OF:

1926 Bellinger

1859 Pederson

1052 C Tavlor

987 Pollock

965 Puig

923 Verdugo

849 EHern

441 Betts

 

You don't see Cordero and Renfroe as belonging in that group?

[notin]

Look at the OF'ers Dave had to choose from:

 

2018-2020 Innings in Dodger OF:

1926 Bellinger

1859 Pederson

1052 C Tavlor

987 Pollock

965 Puig

923 Verdugo

849 EHern

441 Betts

 

You don't see Cordero and Renfroe as belonging in that group?

 

If the group includes Chris Taylor, why not?

 

Of course, the Dodgers already had Hernandez when they acquired Betts, Pollock, Verdugo and Taylor. Yet they still kept acquiring outfielders...

[moonslav59]

If the group includes Chris Taylor, why not?

 

Of course, the Dodgers already had Hernandez when they acquired Betts, Pollock, Verdugo and Taylor. Yet they still kept acquiring outfielders...

 

OK, he couldn't beat out the .805 hitting Taylor.

 

Look, I'm not saying EHern is an All Star OF'er. He's just better than what we have.

[notin]

OK, he couldn't beat out the .805 hitting Taylor.

 

Look, I'm not saying EHern is an All Star OF'er. He's just better than what we have.

 

I think his data looks good, but 500 innings with good UZR encompassing 3 years doesn’t necessarily translate to 1200 good innings in one year.

[mvp 78]

@jcmccaffrey

Cora said he's still debating whether Verdugo will hit first or second. Today's his first game and he's hitting second. Hernandez has been leading off in the first few games.

 

Verdugo was good there last year. Leave him there.

 

Verdugo

Xander

Devers

JD

whoever else after

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe

Franchy Cordero will join the workouts today.

[moonslav59]

I think his data looks good, but 500 innings with good UZR encompassing 3 years doesn’t necessarily translate to 1200 good innings in one year.

 

No, but the data does show he's not very good on defense at 2B.

 

My wish is Cordero stays healthy and comes of age, this year. I'd love to see him do well in CF. If he doesn't, I think EHern makes the most sense. I don't think there is a drop off on offense between Cordero v LHPs and Arroyo/Chavis/Gonzalez or Renfroe v RHPs and Arroyo/Chavis/Gonzalez. The pluses on defense at at least 3 positions should tip the balance.

 

Now, if Cordero & Renfroe show they are hitting off-handed pitchers well, and or Cordero is playing good defense in CF, I'll be fine with EHern playing 2B nearly everyday.

 

My guess is, everyone will get a chance to shine or cast shadows, and the choice will become clear during the season.

[moonslav59]

@PeteAbe

Franchy Cordero will join the workouts today.

 

Good news!

[mvp 78]

No, but the data does show he's not very good on defense at 2B.

 

My wish is Cordero stays healthy and comes of age, this year. I'd love to see him do well in CF. If he doesn't, I think EHern makes the most sense. I don't think there is a drop off on offense between Cordero v LHPs and Arroyo/Chavis/Gonzalez or Renfroe v RHPs and Arroyo/Chavis/Gonzalez. The pluses on defense at at least 3 positions should tip the balance.

 

Now, if Cordero & Renfroe show they are hitting off-handed pitchers well, and or Cordero is playing good defense in CF, I'll be fine with EHern playing 2B nearly everyday.

 

My guess is, everyone will get a chance to shine or cast shadows, and the choice will become clear during the season.

 

I think in many ways, this will be a test year. Figure out what works and use that knowledge for 2022 when they really think they can compete. Things could get kinda weird.

[moonslav59]

I think in many ways, this will be a test year. Figure out what works and use that knowledge for 2022 when they really think they can compete. Things could get kinda weird.

 

I totally agree.

 

Things could go horribly wrong, too.

 

A lot of questions will be answered- for good or bad.

 

Is Vaz worth extending? (.798 from 2019-2020 is great for a catcher)

I'm hoping Chavis gets a chance to prove he belongs or frees up a roster spot for 2022.

Is Dalbec for real? (Can he offset the high K's with a decent OBP? It looks like the power is real.

2B? EHern, Arroyo, Arauz, Munoz, Downs, Chavis, Marwin- can one show they own and deserve the job?

Bogey, will he opt out?

Devers, can he get consistent on D? Can he repeat or improve on 2019?

Renfroe-Cordero? Platoon or FT or bye-bye after 2021?

Verdugo? Not much to question, here, except maybe whether CF or RF is best for him.

JD? Was 2020 a sign of serious decline or a blip?

Sale? Can he regain all of most of his greatness again? maybe 2021 can give us a sign.

ERod? Did COVID hurt him long term? Should we extend or re-sign him?

Eovaldi? Will he ever put in a full season?

Richards? It's been a long time since he's pitcher even near a full season. Will 2021 be it?

Pivetta? He's got the stuff, but can he put it all together?

Perez? I think we know what he brings.

Houck? Were those 3 starts just a tease?

Ottavino? Can you give us a big year? can you close?

Barnes? Can you be our solid #2 again?

DHern? At a record breaking K/9 pace, but can you slow the walks?

Taylor, Brasier, Andriese, Brice, Sawamura, Whitlock and others? Can just 1 or 2 of you do much better than last year's clown circus?

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Way too many questions LOL

[mvp 78]

I totally agree.

 

Things could go horribly wrong, too.

 

A lot of questions will be answered- for good or bad.

 

Is Vaz worth extending? (.798 from 2019-2020 is great for a catcher) NOT REALLY, MAYBE ON A FAIRLY SHORT DEAL

I'm hoping Chavis gets a chance to prove he belongs or frees up a roster spot for 2022. NOPE, DFA

Is Dalbec for real? (Can he offset the high K's with a decent OBP? It looks like the power is real. YES, ROY

2B? EHern, Arroyo, Arauz, Munoz, Downs, Chavis, Marwin- can one show they own and deserve the job? ARROYO, WITH KIKé IN CF

Bogey, will he opt out? NO

Devers, can he get consistent on D? YES Can he repeat or improve on 2019? IMPROVE

Renfroe-Cordero? RENFROE DUE TO INJURY Platoon or FT or bye-bye after 2021? PLATOON

Verdugo? Not much to question, here, except maybe whether CF or RF is best for him. RF, OBV

JD? Was 2020 a sign of serious decline or a blip? DECLINE

Sale? Can he regain all of most of his greatness again? maybe 2021 can give us a sign. HE'LL BE GOOD, NOT GREAT, OVERPAID

ERod? Did COVID hurt him long term? Should we extend or re-sign him? EXTEND IF YOU CAN, COULD BE BEST PRICE RIGHT NOW

Eovaldi? Will he ever put in a full season? HE COULDN'T EVEN DO IT IN A 60 GAME SEASON, C'MON

Richards? It's been a long time since he's pitcher even near a full season. Will 2021 be it? NO, BUT HE'LL START 25 GAMES (WHICH IS ALMOST A FULL SEASON)

Pivetta? He's got the stuff, but can he put it all together? DOUBT IT, BULLPEN BOUND

Perez? I think we know what he brings. 5TH STARTER ENERGY

Houck? Were those 3 starts just a tease? YES, FUN THOUGH LIKE A SPRING FLING

Ottavino? Can you give us a big year? can you close? HE'LL BE PRETTY GOOD

Barnes? Can you be our solid #2 again? HE'LL BE PRETTY GOOD

DHern? At a record breaking K/9 pace, but can you slow the walks? A LITTLE

Taylor, Brasier, Andriese, Brice, Sawamura, Whitlock and others? Can just 1 or 2 of you do much better than last year's clown circus? TAYLOR WILL BE BETTER, ANDRIESE/SAWAMURA/WHITLOCK WILL BE IMPROVEMENT OVER COVEY AND OTHER DRECK FROM 2020

 

 

 

 

There. Happy?

[moonslav59]

Way too many questions LOL

 

Basically, everyone but Verdugo, Bogey (except opt out) and Perez have significant questions to be answered.

[notin]

Basically, everyone but Verdugo, Bogey (except opt out) and Perez have significant questions to be answered.

 

Something that can be said about a lot of teams...

[moonslav59]

Something that can be said about a lot of teams...

 

True, and maybe I'm too close to the subjects of these questions, but ours seem deeper and more significant.

 

Many are health-related, as with many teams.

 

Some are based on knowing so little about some players due to small, scattered or foreign sample sizes (Houck, Cordero and Sawamura to name just 3).

[notin]

True, and maybe I'm too close to the subjects of these questions, but ours seem deeper and more significant.

 

Many are health-related, as with many teams.

 

Some are based on knowing so little about some players due to small, scattered or foreign sample sizes (Houck, Cordero and Sawamura to name just 3).

 

And here is the thing.

 

Some of the "answers" to these questions will be "no". At least this year. Some will be "yes".

 

Of course, the Sox really need Sale back to maximize their chances at a title anyway...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And here is the thing.

 

Some of the "answers" to these questions will be "no". At least this year. Some will be "yes".

 

Of course, the Sox really need Sale back to maximize their chances at a title anyway...

 

The Sox really need Sale back to being Sale, which isn't guaranteed... and which is why they also need another frontline starting pitcher, at least -- called up/developed, signed, and/or traded for -- before we can make a serious run at more bling.

[mvp 78]

The Sox really need Sale back to being Sale, which isn't guaranteed... and which is why they also need another frontline starting pitcher, at least -- called up/developed, signed, and/or traded for -- before we can make a serious run at more bling.

 

Sox have guys with upside, but two of them need to work out at least.

[moonslav59]

And here is the thing.

 

Some of the "answers" to these questions will be "no". At least this year. Some will be "yes".

 

Of course, the Sox really need Sale back to maximize their chances at a title anyway...

 

Oh, I'm expecting many "no's." If I had to pick the most likely, it would be Chavis, Richards and Eovaldi. Cordero might be, too.

 

We don't need a ton of "yeses" to give us something to build around for 2022 and beyond.

 

I'm thinking Devers will be a yes- he will bust out beyond 2019 numbers, this year or next, IMO.

 

I think Sale becomes great again, but maybe not in 2021.

 

Ottavino doesn't matter, because he's got one year left, as do some others. ERod is 50-50. I love the guy and if he looks good, I hope we extend him.

 

I've always been high on Dalbec, so I'm thinking "yes."

 

D Hern is 50-50.

 

Houck is someone I find hard thinking better than 50-50.

 

I actually like Pivetta more than most- maybe more than Houck.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sox have guys with upside, but two of them need to work out at least.

 

Hopefully, they'll get to work out with Pedro.

[mvp 78]

Hopefully, they'll get to work out with Pedro.

 

Not sure that makes a difference

[mvp 78]

Gilberto Jiminez now in Ft Myers for ST