Milky toast GM over his head and overmatched

[Kimmi]

We certainly didn't need another DD right now.

 

However...

 

-We traded Mookie Betts and made much of the advantages of the tax re-set.

-As of Jan. 17, our upgrades to a .400 team are Matt Andriese and Hunter Renfroe.

 

I know it's been a frustrating offseason so far. Really all I can say is to remain patient and see what unfolds over the next month.

[Kimmi]

I was wondering if Henry called a moratorium on the Sox Big Spending Days. But if he wanted a lower salary for his team and a payroll reduction, one might suspect Bogaerts would be in more trade rumors and Benintendi in fewer. Still it is a possibility...

 

I think Henry will continue to spend. For one, he realizes that his fan base expects him to spend, even though that shouldn't be a consideration for him. But he doesn't want to lose fans. More importantly, he likes to win. This is why he lost patience with Ben so quickly. He is going to spend in order to put a winning product on the field.

 

We have to keep in mind that the season still has a lot of uncertainty surrounding it, especially in terms of whether fans will be allowed. This is making most owners hesitant about spending.

[Kimmi]

I don't think there are too many fans who are content to have another miserable season in the hope that things will be better in 2022 and beyond. Perhaps we are a bit spoiled, but that is how it goes. I hope that Sox ownership and management realizes that.

 

I really think that ownership realizes how bad last year was in terms of fan support. I really don't think they're going to allow 2021 to be another year like that.

[Swiharts Ghost]

I really think that ownership realizes how bad last year was in terms of fan support. I really don't think they're going to allow 2021 to be another year like that.

 

Love this Kimmi .I just need some excitement and Understand they have tossed in the towel before season even started ? And not see this is head in the sand territory.Hell give Boston Puig to bring some interest atleast ? This team is not only a bore to watch but they look like a team not even trying to compete.I love your take on things and apologize for the sky is falling takes .I need more from Bloom .

Edited January 17, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[jacksonianmarch]

I really think that ownership realizes how bad last year was in terms of fan support. I really don't think they're going to allow 2021 to be another year like that.

 

They’re not going to make rash decisions. They’re committed to a rebuild

[moonslav59]

Love this Kimmi .I just need some excitement and Understand they have tossed in the towel before season even started ? And not see this is head in the sand territory.Hell give Boston Puig to bring some interest atleast ? This team is not only a bore to watch but they look like a team not even trying to compete.I love your take on things and apologize for the sky is falling takes .I need more from Bloom .

 

You need to realize the off season does not end in mid January.

 

If we are still in this same situation in mid February, then have at it.

 

Also, I'd be very surprised, if we go all out to win in 2021. Even 2022 might be too early to hope for a ring.

 

2020 was treading water and rebuilding the farm.

2021 is about improving the longer term outlook, in terms of ML talent and the farm.

2022 is about the earliest we can hope for meaningful competitiveness.

 

You can't overcome a cliff overnight.

[moonslav59]

They’re not going to make rash decisions. They’re committed to a rebuild

 

Agreed. I do think we do something major to improve our chances and record in 2021, but only if it also helps us in 2022 or beyond.

 

We may add a few 1 year deals that will allow us to spend large in 2022 and still be better in 2021, but I think we will try to stay under the luxury tax, so it's not an "all out" winter, as it should NOT be.

[notin]

“Rebuilding” is owner-speak for “going cheap.” It’s not something large market teams where real money is at risk actually do...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

“Rebuilding” is owner-speak for “going cheap.” It’s not something large market teams where real money is at risk actually do...

 

I think the entire term is forbidden in the Steinbrenner book of ownership.

 

Alex Speier today reiterates why the Red Sox -- and I'm paraphrasing -- aren't ready to acquire any really good players yet because they're not really good enough yet.

 

A point that hasn't been covered this winter is the effect that one really good acquisition can have on building back better. Good players want to win, and will recruit other good players. New players will want to join, and old players will want to stay. None of this is a revelation, but it's never noted when discussion is predominantly financial.

[cp176]

Bloom is the anti-Dombrowski. Anyone expecting a bunch of Dombrowski type moves is likely going to be disappointed. That's not to say that Bloom won't eventually make a big free agent signing or a big trade, but now is not the time for either of those, for many reasons.

 

To date wouldn't you kind of say that Bloom is anti any of the previous GMs that we have had this century when it comes to significant make a difference now kind of signings?

[cp176]

I don't think there are too many fans who are content to have another miserable season in the hope that things will be better in 2022 and beyond. Perhaps we are a bit spoiled, but that is how it goes. I hope that Sox ownership and management realizes that.

 

Excellent points.

[Bellhorn04]

A point that hasn't been covered this winter is the effect that one really good acquisition can have on building back better. Good players want to win, and will recruit other good players. New players will want to join, and old players will want to stay. None of this is a revelation, but it's never noted when discussion is predominantly financial.

 

Hmmm, well, I don't see how Good Player A can successfully recruit Good Player B without ownership being on board to pay Good Player B what he wants.

[mvp 78]

Love this Kimmi .I just need some excitement and Understand they have tossed in the towel before season even started ? And not see this is head in the sand territory.Hell give Boston Puig to bring some interest atleast ? This team is not only a bore to watch but they look like a team not even trying to compete.I love your take on things and apologize for the sky is falling takes .I need more from Bloom .

 

How is Puig more interesting than Devers/Xander/Dalbec/Verdugo? Puig is not the guy he once was. You don't want to run him out there 162 games.

[mvp 78]

I don't think there are too many fans who are content to have another miserable season in the hope that things will be better in 2022 and beyond. Perhaps we are a bit spoiled, but that is how it goes. I hope that Sox ownership and management realizes that.

 

A Red Sox exec is quoted in the Speier piece saying that they understand the anguish fans are going through this offseason. It seems that they are hopeful to sign JBJ/Odorizzi and whatever is left over at 2b.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Hmmm, well, I don't see how Good Player A can successfully recruit Good Player B without ownership being on board to pay Good Player B what he wants.

 

Players have influence, and top players' input is often valued by management. It's not all bottom-line dollar signs... or warm weather climes. Competitive athletes actually like to win.

[Bellhorn04]

Players have influence, and top players' input is often valued by management. It's not all bottom-line dollar signs... or warm weather climes. Competitive athletes actually like to win.

 

Ahead of getting paid, though?

 

We've all heard the story of Pedro being instrumental in signing Ortiz. But that was a little different, Ortiz was available for peanuts.

 

Give me some real world stories of players signing for significantly less to go to a winner, and I'll get misty-eyed too.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ahead of getting paid, though?

 

We've all heard the story of Pedro being instrumental in signing Ortiz. But that was a little different, Ortiz was available for peanuts.

 

Give me some real world stories of players signing for significantly less to go to a winner, and I'll get misty-eyed too.

 

I never said significantly less, but whether they're posturing or not, many good players -- once they're about to be rich beyond their ability to spend no matter where they sign -- often utter the word winning. It actually matters to some guys.

 

Pete Rose signed with the Phillies for less than he was offered by Atlanta because he wanted to play with Mike Schmidt and win another ring.

[Kimmi]

Love this Kimmi .I just need some excitement and Understand they have tossed in the towel before season even started ? And not see this is head in the sand territory.Hell give Boston Puig to bring some interest atleast ? This team is not only a bore to watch but they look like a team not even trying to compete.I love your take on things and apologize for the sky is falling takes .I need more from Bloom .

 

As I posted before, if you're looking for that splashy signing this year, you're probably going to be disappointed. Bloom will get the job done, but it's not going to be in the same way that Dombrowski did it.

 

I know this off season has moved agonizingly slow.

[Kimmi]

They’re not going to make rash decisions. They’re committed to a rebuild

 

No doubt. Putting together a contending team for 2021 while also building for the future takes patience, not rash decisions. That's why things are moving so slowly.

[Kimmi]

You need to realize the off season does not end in mid January.

 

If we are still in this same situation in mid February, then have at it.

 

Also, I'd be very surprised, if we go all out to win in 2021. Even 2022 might be too early to hope for a ring.

 

2020 was treading water and rebuilding the farm.

2021 is about improving the longer term outlook, in terms of ML talent and the farm.

2022 is about the earliest we can hope for meaningful competitiveness.

 

You can't overcome a cliff overnight.

 

I agree with everything in this post, except I think we can contend in 2021. We won't be the division favorites, but we can get into the playoffs.

[Kimmi]

I think the entire term is forbidden in the Steinbrenner book of ownership.

 

Alex Speier today reiterates why the Red Sox -- and I'm paraphrasing -- aren't ready to acquire any really good players yet because they're not really good enough yet.

 

A point that hasn't been covered this winter is the effect that one really good acquisition can have on building back better. Good players want to win, and will recruit other good players. New players will want to join, and old players will want to stay. None of this is a revelation, but it's never noted when discussion is predominantly financial.

 

Speier is right. The Sox aren't at the point where they want to make 'big moves'. However, smaller moves for lesser known players does not mean we can't get really good players.

[notin]

I never said significantly less, but whether they're posturing or not, many good players -- once they're about to be rich beyond their ability to spend no matter where they sign -- often utter the word winning. It actually matters to some guys.

 

Pete Rose signed with the Phillies for less than he was offered by Atlanta because he wanted to play with Mike Schmidt and win another ring.

 

I think there are plenty of players who think they can turn any team into a winner, even if they have a long history that says otherwise. They nearly never say they sign for the money, but money is almost always the prime factor.

 

Even Corey Kluber this year only took the one year for the Yankees because he very likely believes he can turn this into a bigger, better deal next season. A 2 year deal hinders him because he would be 36 next time he hit the market. And a team option becomes worst cae scenario for him, because he either does not get the chance to hit the market again if he is good, or he has a rough year and has to prove himself again...

[Kimmi]

To date wouldn't you kind of say that Bloom is anti any of the previous GMs that we have had this century when it comes to significant make a difference now kind of signings?

 

Perhaps. To date. This offseason is kind of like what Cherington did in 2013. The main focus is on rebuilding and maintaining the farm system, while trying to contend at the same time. It takes time to rebuild the farm. Once the farm system is where we need it to be, those 'difference maker' moves will be made. The time is just not right for those moves yet.

 

Think about what Theo had to do when he first went to the Cubs. He didn't make those significant moves until the team was ready.

[Kimmi]

A Red Sox exec is quoted in the Speier piece saying that they understand the anguish fans are going through this offseason. It seems that they are hopeful to sign JBJ/Odorizzi and whatever is left over at 2b.

 

Speier's article is a good read and spot on, IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

I never said significantly less, but whether they're posturing or not, many good players -- once they're about to be rich beyond their ability to spend no matter where they sign -- often utter the word winning. It actually matters to some guys.

 

Pete Rose signed with the Phillies for less than he was offered by Atlanta because he wanted to play with Mike Schmidt and win another ring.

 

That's really jumping in the Way Back Machine, though.

[cp176]

Perhaps. To date. This offseason is kind of like what Cherington did in 2013. The main focus is on rebuilding and maintaining the farm system, while trying to contend at the same time. It takes time to rebuild the farm. Once the farm system is where we need it to be, those 'difference maker' moves will be made. The time is just not right for those moves yet.

 

Think about what Theo had to do when he first went to the Cubs. He didn't make those significant moves until the team was ready.

 

I actually am looking forward to the spring and I am hoping that what we saw from some of our young pitchers to close out the season was the real deal. I think that it is possible that management has solid expectations for them. if they perform well right out of the gate, signing the types of players that we are looking at right now won't look bad at all.

[mvp 78]

I actually am looking forward to the spring and I am hoping that what we saw from some of our young pitchers to close out the season was the real deal. I think that it is possible that management has solid expectations for them. if they perform well right out of the gate, signing the types of players that we are looking at right now won't look bad at all.

 

If they think Houck can be a legit #4, that's a huge upgrade for the rotation. Remember, the Sox were much better at the end of the year than at the beginning. If they figure out an average rotation (no starts from Webber, Mazza, Brewer, Hart, et al), this team will be ok.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's really jumping in the Way Back Machine, though.

 

I read way back to this past weekend that Kluber chose the Yankees because his personal trainer is their team trainer and because he wanted to play with a team with a good chance to win a ring.

 

We don't know if Boston even made an offer -- if they did, I doubt it was $11 million like NY's -- but this isn't rocket Roger science. A lot of players say winning is a factor when deciding where to sign. Some of them may actually be telling the truth.

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, if you want to rebuild value, there’s no bigger stage than Yankee stadium. If he goes into Yankee stadium, shows he’s healthy, and performs well, he will position himself for a big payday in 22

[Bellhorn04]

I read way back to this past weekend that Kluber chose the Yankees because his personal trainer is their team trainer and because he wanted to play with a team with a good chance to win a ring.

 

We don't know if Boston even made an offer -- if they did, I doubt it was $11 million like NY's -- but this isn't rocket Roger science. A lot of players say winning is a factor when deciding where to sign. Some of them may actually be telling the truth.

 

Yes, I read that Kluber didn't take the highest offer.

 

And I'm sure there are cases where a player will take a bit less money to play where they want.

 

But Kluber wouldn't be a Yankee unless Hal Steinbrenner gave Cashman enough budget room to cover the $11 million.

 

And the fact that DJL and Kluber are now with the Yankees might mean other players will be more interested to join them, but it won't matter in the least if Cash has used up all his budget room.

 

It all starts with the money, that's my point.