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This team is a total Yawn both on the field and off from top to bottom the Redsox

Swiharts Ghost

By Swiharts Ghost
in Boston Red Sox Talk

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moonslav59 GOAT

moonslav59

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Or why the 2020 team was s much more daunting of a rebuild than the 2012 team...

 

Exactly, and while we had lost Betts before 2020, we had lost AGon and Beckett before 2013, too.

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notin MVP

notin

Old-Timey Member
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Exactly, and while we had lost Betts before 2020, we had lost AGon and Beckett before 2013, too.

 

And Nick Punto. You always forget about Punto.

 

The funny thing about that trade is, the Sox traded away AGon and Beckett and got nothing back. The best player they received turned out to be James Loney. A far cry from Alex Verdugo...

moonslav59 GOAT

moonslav59

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And Nick Punto. You always forget about Punto.

 

The funny thing about that trade is, the Sox traded away AGon and Beckett and got nothing back. The best player they received turned out to be James Loney. A far cry from Alex Verdugo...

 

True, but they dumped CC and cleared up a lot of budget space, making it one of the best Sox trades, evah!

 

Strange how one of our best trades ever, brought back just about nothing.

 

(Note: we did trade de la Rosa & Webster for Wade Miley.)

mvp 78 GOAT

mvp 78

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Throwing 90 is fine if you are Greg Maddux! The slider has always been his out pitch! Granted I’ve never been a MLB pitcher but I did blow my shoulder out, Bicep tendon, Labrum and rotator cuff and still can’t throw a ball more than 50’ without strain on the arm... imagine that whip action on surgically repaired elbow... esp when the bend on that thing! Again hope like hell I’m wrong... proof will be in the pudding!

 

Where is the 90 mph coming from? I know the very last start of 2018 that his velo dropped to 90 mph, but it was also that low on a start earlier in the season. In the playoffs that year, he was consistently hitting 96 mph on his FB. In 2019, his velo averaged only 90 mph for one start (second start of the year). The rest of the time he was averaging 91 - 95 with an overall average of 93.7.

notin MVP

notin

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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True, but they dumped CC and cleared up a lot of budget space, making it one of the best Sox trades, evah!

 

Strange how one of our best trades ever, brought back just about nothing.

 

(Note: we did trade de la Rosa & Webster for Wade Miley.)

 

And after one mediocre year, they dealt Miley and Jonathan Aro for Carson Smith and Roenis Elias. Smith barely ever pitched and Elias turned into a journeyman who has bounced around MLB and MiLB with limited success. The rest of that trade was Ivan DeJesus Jr, whose ceiling turned out to be orgainzational filler, and Jerry Sands, a career MiLB guy whose biggest contribution was inclusion in the trade that brought over Brock Holt, along with another RP who fell apart physically in Joel Hanrahan.

 

So even the long view of that trade was the Sox got Brock Holt, but they probably could have acquired him without including Sands...

notin MVP

notin

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Throwing 90 is fine if you are Greg Maddux! The slider has always been his out pitch! Granted I’ve never been a MLB pitcher but I did blow my shoulder out, Bicep tendon, Labrum and rotator cuff and still can’t throw a ball more than 50’ without strain on the arm... imagine that whip action on surgically repaired elbow... esp when the bend on that thing! Again hope like hell I’m wrong... proof will be in the pudding!

 

I know I am going out on a limb and trying to confirm this might be a HIPPA violation, but I am guessing your arm reconstruction was not done by Dr. James Andrews...

Bellhorn04 MVP

Bellhorn04

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Posted
Posted
True, but they dumped CC and cleared up a lot of budget space, making it one of the best Sox trades, evah!

 

Strange how one of our best trades ever, brought back just about nothing.

 

That's because it was the mother of all salary dumps.

Noles_1335 First Round Pick

Noles_1335

Verified Member
Posted
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Shoulder specialist from Johns Hopkins... point I'm trying to prove is, the delivery Sale has is not smooth and puts a lot of torque on the shoulder and elbow. If he comes back healthy it won't be in 2021. The injury bug will become more prevalent with him trying to protect that arm down the road... maybe oblique strain, rotator.... we as fans can't bank on him being a fixture in the lineup anytime soon.
moonslav59 GOAT

moonslav59

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Shoulder specialist from Johns Hopkins... point I'm trying to prove is, the delivery Sale has is not smooth and puts a lot of torque on the shoulder and elbow. If he comes back healthy it won't be in 2021. The injury bug will become more prevalent with him trying to protect that arm down the road... maybe oblique strain, rotator.... we as fans can't bank on him being a fixture in the lineup anytime soon.

 

We've all heard this for many years, and it is not without merit. Many predicted Sale would go down with a serious injury long before he did.

 

Maybe he's a freak of nature. Maybe not.

 

Maybe he changes his mechanics and reinvents himself as a pitcher not a thrower.

 

I'm trying to stay positive, but I certainly am very concerned about his future.

Noles_1335 First Round Pick

Noles_1335

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Another week has gone by and no acquisitions that matter have been made once again. I love how the media outlets and social media sites for the Sox say.... Red Sox looking to make moves this week or the hot stove rumors of Sox is serious talks with such and such...... blah blah blah. This is getting old! I guess we will wait until the scraps are left to sign and being the laughing stock of big market teams again. And no I'm not saying so sign, Hand, Ozuna, or Bauer..... just do something that makes some damn sense already!
Bellhorn04 MVP

Bellhorn04

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Another week has gone by and no acquisitions that matter have been made once again. I love how the media outlets and social media sites for the Sox say.... Red Sox looking to make moves this week or the hot stove rumors of Sox is serious talks with such and such...... blah blah blah. This is getting old! I guess we will wait until the scraps are left to sign and being the laughing stock of big market teams again. And no I'm not saying so sign, Hand, Ozuna, or Bauer..... just do something that makes some damn sense already!

 

There's still plenty of time and players out there, and money available.

 

If they continue to do jack until Opening Day, not many Sox fans will be happy.

notin MVP

notin

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
There's still plenty of time and players out there, and money available.

 

If they continue to do jack until Opening Day, not many Sox fans will be happy.

 

Hopefully opening day is not the deadline.

 

Pitchers and catchers re[port in 3 weeks. So maybe having a few pitchers on board by then would be a good idea...

mvp 78 GOAT

mvp 78

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Not really news. They should use a conservative approach...

 

The conservative approach IS bringing him back in the 2nd half and rolling him out slowly. I'd be more concerned if they wanted to push him faster.

notin MVP

notin

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The conservative approach IS bringing him back in the 2nd half and rolling him out slowly. I'd be more concerned if they wanted to push him faster.

 

Exactly. I'm not sure what all the uproar is about. We knew Sale was a second half candidate at best almost a year ago...

mvp 78 GOAT

mvp 78

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Exactly. I'm not sure what all the uproar is about. We knew Sale was a second half candidate at best almost a year ago...

 

And if they held him out until 2022 out of an abundancy of caution, wouldn't that be best in the long run anyway?

 

This team clearly isn't on the trajectory for a championship, there is no reason to worry about Sale's current health unless he takes some dramatic turn for the worse.

moonslav59 GOAT

moonslav59

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

I think I'm more optimistic about Sale than many here, but no way will we push him hard. We may need to focus on making sure he doesn't push himself too hard.

 

Ease him in slowly, later this year, and hope he's ready to go in 2022.

 

Remember, we are talking about...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

harmony FCL Red Sox

harmony

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
I think I'm more optimistic about Sale than many here, but no way will we push him hard. We may need to focus on making sure he doesn't push himself too hard.

 

Ease him in slowly, later this year, and hope he's ready to go in 2022.

 

Remember, we are talking about...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

2022 will be Chris Sale's age 33 season.

 

FWIW

moonslav59 GOAT

moonslav59

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
2022 will be Chris Sale's age 33 season.

 

FWIW

 

I nice age for many of the greatest pitchers of all time.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=100&type=8&season=2020&month=0&season1=1960&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=33,33&filter=&players=&startdate=&enddate=

 

34 isn't too bad, either...

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=100&type=8&season=2020&month=0&season1=1960&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=34,34&filter=&players=&startdate=&enddate=

mvp 78 GOAT

mvp 78

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

 

Will he be throwing 300 innings?

mvp 78 GOAT

mvp 78

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
300 innings converts to 180 innings in 2021 values.

 

At which point he will not have thrown over 160 innings in 5 years.

 

We'll see how it goes. If his body holds up, I know he'll be able to do it just because of the type of player he is.

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