Who Should the Sox Have Play 2B in 2020?

[moonslav59]

There are a lot of high priority needs. I can agree with that list.

 

You agreeing with me makes me feel the need to re-examine my position.

 

(Just kidding.)

[Kimmi]

Much depends on how much of a winter budget Bloom is given. If they give him enough to get the pitching we need and a decent CF'er, and he has enough left over for a 2Bman, he may go that route.

 

To me, our priorities are as such:

urgent

1. SP (hopefully a #2 or #3)

2. Closer

3. CF

4. RP (decent set-up man)

5. SP depth (5/6 slot starter)

 

non urgent

6. 2B

7. more pitching depth

8. CF/2Bman

 

I can agree with your list, though I might put CF behind all pitching needs, especially with the signing of Renfroe. That said, when I say that a closer is a high priority, I do not in any way mean to spend big on one. I remain very much against using a lot of resources on relief pitchers.

[notin]

I can agree with your list, though I might put CF behind all pitching needs, especially with the signing of Renfroe. That said, when I say that a closer is a high priority, I do not in any way mean to spend big on one. I remain very much against using a lot of resources on relief pitchers.

 

I would think Bloom might focus more on the bullpen. After Bauer, there is a very steep drop off among the remaining FA pitchers. And while maybe the Sox can get a better contract than normal on someone like Jake Odorizzi, that won't make him a better pitcher. Paying him like an ace will have a similar non-effect.

 

But the bullpen actually has more difference makers still available. I personally would like to see 2 of Bradley, Robles and Hand. But if the Sox ended up with any of Hendriks, Kela, Rosenthal, Yates, Colome, Devenski, Peacock, Stanek, Hector Rondon or gave us a reunion with Brandon Workman, I would be fine with it. As long as the Sox still at least got one of Bradley, Robles or Hand...

[moonslav59]

I can agree with your list, though I might put CF behind all pitching needs, especially with the signing of Renfroe. That said, when I say that a closer is a high priority, I do not in any way mean to spend big on one. I remain very much against using a lot of resources on relief pitchers.

 

I'd move CF down, now too, but I'm not sure it makes the "non urgent" list. I see Renfroe as more of a 4th OF'er type or more like my #8 on the list than the #3 on the list- kinds in between, though.

[moonslav59]

I would think Bloom might focus more on the bullpen. After Bauer, there is a very steep drop off among the remaining FA pitchers. And while maybe the Sox can get a better contract than normal on someone like Jake Odorizzi, that won't make him a better pitcher. Paying him like an ace will have a similar non-effect.

 

But the bullpen actually has more difference makers still available. I personally would like to see 2 of Bradley, Robles and Hand. But if the Sox ended up with any of Hendriks, Kela, Rosenthal, Yates, Colome, Devenski, Peacock, Stanek, Hector Rondon or gave us a reunion with Brandon Workman, I would be fine with it. As long as the Sox still at least got one of Bradley, Robles or Hand...

 

If Odorizzi gets ace money, then I hope it's not us paying it. There are a few SP'ers not far from his skill level, so maybe waiting, then pouncing on a desperate pitcher may work out best.

 

Anybody know what good SP'ers are available, next winter>

[notin]

If Odorizzi gets ace money, then I hope it's not us paying it. There are a few SP'ers not far from his skill level, so maybe waiting, then pouncing on a desperate pitcher may work out best.

 

Anybody know what good SP'ers are available, next winter>

 

Starting Pitchers

 

Dylan Bundy (29)

Alex Cobb (34)

Johnny Cueto (36) — $22MM club option ($5MM buyout)

Zach Davies (29)

Danny Duffy (33)

Kevin Gausman (31)

Jon Gray (30)

Zack Greinke (38)

Andrew Heaney (31)

Merrill Kelly (32) — $4.25MM club option ($500K buyout)

Clayton Kershaw (34)

Yusei Kikuchi (31) — Mariners can exercise four-year, $66MM extension; if not, Kikuchi has one-year, $13MM player option

Kwang-Hyun Kim (33)

Michael Lorenzen (30)

Jordan Lyles (31)

Lance Lynn (35)

Carlos Martinez (30) — $17MM club option ($500K buyout; contract also contains $18MM club option for 2023)

Steven Matz (31)

Lance McCullers Jr. (28)

Wade Miley (35) — $10MM club option ($1MM buyout)

Mike Montgomery (32)

Charlie Morton (38)

Daniel Norris (29)

Michael Pineda (33)

Robbie Ray (30)

Tanner Roark (35)

Eduardo Rodriguez (29)

Max Scherzer (37)

Drew Smyly (33)

Marcus Stroman (30)

Noah Syndergaard (29)

Vince Velasquez (30)

Justin Verlander (39)

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/2021-22-mlb-free-agents.html

[moonslav59]

Starting Pitchers

 

Dylan Bundy (29)

Alex Cobb (34)

Johnny Cueto (36) — $22MM club option ($5MM buyout)

Zach Davies (29)

Danny Duffy (33)

Kevin Gausman (31)

Jon Gray (30)

Zack Greinke (38)

Andrew Heaney (31)

Merrill Kelly (32) — $4.25MM club option ($500K buyout)

Clayton Kershaw (34)

Yusei Kikuchi (31) — Mariners can exercise four-year, $66MM extension; if not, Kikuchi has one-year, $13MM player option

Kwang-Hyun Kim (33)

Michael Lorenzen (30)

Jordan Lyles (31)

Lance Lynn (35)

Carlos Martinez (30) — $17MM club option ($500K buyout; contract also contains $18MM club option for 2023)

Steven Matz (31)

Lance McCullers Jr. (28)

Wade Miley (35) — $10MM club option ($1MM buyout)

Mike Montgomery (32)

Charlie Morton (38)

Daniel Norris (29)

Michael Pineda (33)

Robbie Ray (30)

Tanner Roark (35)

Eduardo Rodriguez (29)

Max Scherzer (37)

Drew Smyly (33)

Marcus Stroman (30)

Noah Syndergaard (29)

Vince Velasquez (30)

Justin Verlander (39)

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/2021-22-mlb-free-agents.html

 

Maybe we could try that Eduardo Rodriguez guy.

[a700hitter]

Do any of those guys play 2B?

[Kimmi]

I would think Bloom might focus more on the bullpen. After Bauer, there is a very steep drop off among the remaining FA pitchers. And while maybe the Sox can get a better contract than normal on someone like Jake Odorizzi, that won't make him a better pitcher. Paying him like an ace will have a similar non-effect.

 

But the bullpen actually has more difference makers still available. I personally would like to see 2 of Bradley, Robles and Hand. But if the Sox ended up with any of Hendriks, Kela, Rosenthal, Yates, Colome, Devenski, Peacock, Stanek, Hector Rondon or gave us a reunion with Brandon Workman, I would be fine with it. As long as the Sox still at least got one of Bradley, Robles or Hand...

 

It makes sense that if solid starting pitching is not available, the focus would turn to strengthening the pen. That said, I am not a fan of the general demise of the starting pitcher or of the over-reliance on bullpens. So, while that strategy makes sense, it is definitely not my preference.

[Kimmi]

I'd move CF down, now too, but I'm not sure it makes the "non urgent" list. I see Renfroe as more of a 4th OF'er type or more like my #8 on the list than the #3 on the list- kinds in between, though.

 

Agreed. I am still hoping we re-sign JBJ or a similar type CFer.

[moonslav59]

Agreed. I am still hoping we re-sign JBJ or a similar type CFer.

 

I'm thinking Kiermaier from TB would be a possible deal. With his contract, we may be able to get a SP'er (Yarbrough or Fleimng) or RP'er (Anderson would be great but Fairbanks more likely) without needing to give up all that much.

[notin]

I'm thinking Kiermaier from TB would be a possible deal. With his contract, we may be able to get a SP'er (Yarbrough or Fleimng) or RP'er (Anderson would be great but Fairbanks more likely) without needing to give up all that much.

 

I'd say Anderson is more likely than Fairbanks, simply because Anderson has less control and fewer year until arbitration (and Anderson is probably a little less popular with the bulk of Tampa fans right now). But I think if the Sox do any deal with Tampa, Baz or McClanahan are the more likely targets in a potential Vazquez=Kiermaier swap.

[oldtimer]

I'm thinking Kiermaier from TB would be a possible deal. With his contract, we may be able to get a SP'er (Yarbrough or Fleimng) or RP'er (Anderson would be great but Fairbanks more likely) without needing to give up all that much.

 

Maybe Duran is ready. I'd hate it if the Sox held him back just so they could remain in control another year.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Duran is ready. I'd hate it if the Sox held him back just so they could remain in control another year.

 

I'm not with you on Duran. I think it is highly unlikely he is ML ready by opening day, and we may be lucky if he is by mid season.

 

He's no Betts. He just was switched to OF, and he has some learning to do.

 

I'm not sure why so many people seem to think he's earned a chance at the major league level.

[harmony]

I'd say Anderson is more likely than Fairbanks, simply because Anderson has less control and fewer year until arbitration (and Anderson is probably a little less popular with the bulk of Tampa fans right now). But I think if the Sox do any deal with Tampa, Baz or McClanahan are the more likely targets in a potential Vazquez=Kiermaier swap.

Will the Rays have interest in Christian Vazquez after re-signing cacther Mike Zunino?

[moonslav59]

I'd say Anderson is more likely than Fairbanks, simply because Anderson has less control and fewer year until arbitration (and Anderson is probably a little less popular with the bulk of Tampa fans right now). But I think if the Sox do any deal with Tampa, Baz or McClanahan are the more likely targets in a potential Vazquez=Kiermaier swap.

 

Anderson would sure fill a big need area for us, but I think he's too valuable to get without having to give back much more.

 

Baz fits with Pittsburg more than with us, so that's why I had tried a 3 team deal.

 

The site did just accept this trade:

 

Vaz for Kiermaier, Anderson & Fleming

 

In my deal involving the 3rd team, Pitt, we get a catcher back (Stallings) and gain a much better starter than Fleming (Taillon). Here it is:

 

BOS Gets (all our top needs)

SP Taillon (Pitt)

Closer Anderson (TB)

CF Kiermaier (TB)

C Stallings (Pitt)

2B Frazier (Pitt)

 

TB gets

C Vazquez (Bos)

CF Duran (Bos)

 

Pitt gets

SP Baz (TB)

1B Chavis (Bos)

SS Chatham (Bos)

C Grullon (Bos)

 

[moonslav59]

Will the Rays have interest in Christian Vazquez after re-signing cacther Mike Zunino?

 

I missed that signing.

 

[harmony]

I missed that signing.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/12/rays-to-re-sign-mike-zunino.html

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Re: Second base, Cora says Christian Arroyo ‘has a lot of upside’ and that Chavis is an option, but he also acknowledges: ‘This puzzle isn’t completed.’

[moonslav59]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/12/rays-to-re-sign-mike-zunino.html

 

I think it was announced just minutes from my post, and as notin pointed out, the rays were interested in Vazquez, last year, while they still had Zunino.

 

His contract is "cheap," even for TB, and if we take back Kiermaier and hopefully Anderson or Yarbrough+Fairbanks, they'd actually cut costs.

[moonslav59]

@alexspeier

Re: Second base, Cora says Christian Arroyo ‘has a lot of upside’ and that Chavis is an option, but he also acknowledges: ‘This puzzle isn’t completed.’

 

I could see us starting the season "as is" at 2B and 1B, and then address any needs mid season.

 

To me, beyond pitching, pitching and more pitching, our highest priorities are:

 

1. CF

2. 2B (maybe 2B/CF)

[mvp 78]

I could see us starting the season "as is" at 2B and 1B, and then address any needs mid season.

 

To me, beyond pitching, pitching and more pitching, our highest priorities are:

 

1. CF

2. 2B (maybe 2B/CF)

 

If they get a glove first CFer, it may make sense to get a bigger bat at 2b than Arroyo. I'm not sure you really want to have 2 black holes in the lineup.

[moonslav59]

If they get a glove first CFer, it may make sense to get a bigger bat at 2b than Arroyo. I'm not sure you really want to have 2 black holes in the lineup.

 

That makes sense.

 

Would the Marisnik & Brad Miller signings satisfy that plan?

[mvp 78]

That makes sense.

 

Would the Marisnik & Brad Miller signings satisfy that plan?

 

I'm not sold on Marisnik, but I like Miller.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sold on Marisnik, but I like Miller.

 

Well, you mentioned "glove first," but there are more like him out there.

 

His career OPS vs LHPs is .711, but that is where Renfroe will come into play (in corner OF as Verdugo plays CF), so maybe we look for a glove first CF'er who hits righties better. (I think JBJ would be too expensive for what we are looking for.)

 

Pillar is wrong-handed.

 

Who else is there?

 

I still think a deal for Kiermaier (.742 v RHPs) can work- somehow.

 

[notin]

That makes sense.

 

Would the Marisnik & Brad Miller signings satisfy that plan?

 

No.

 

Sign one of the players named Hernandez for 2B. Cesar is probably better, but Enrique is still very good and probably cheaper.

 

For CF, it might get interesting. The Sox might try to take back one of the bad contracts out there like Kiermaier, Inciarte, or Cain. The free agent market at this point is either prohibitive for a team that needs pitching, or the type of players readily found anywhere. I just cannot get excited about Jake Marisnick, Kevin Pillar, Alberto Almora or Delino DeShields Jr.

 

Maybe a trade of Chavis for a CF makes the most sense. Per BTV, the only CF roughly equal to Chavis in value is Philly's Adam Hasely. That does seem like a fair deal and Philly might be OK taking Chavis back for 2B and moving Segura back to SS. Not that Hasely makes my belly button pucker and unpucker...

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

The idea of the Red Sox signing LeMahieu seems to go against everything we've heard so far this winter. Tough to see that fit for many reasons, including how Fenway would seemingly take away from his home run totals. 7 of his 10 HR this year were non-barreled, 6 into right field.

[moonslav59]

No.

 

Sign one of the players named Hernandez for 2B. Cesar is probably better, but Enrique is still very good and probably cheaper.

 

For CF, it might get interesting. The Sox might try to take back one of the bad contracts out there like Kiermaier, Inciarte, or Cain. The free agent market at this point is either prohibitive for a team that needs pitching, or the type of players readily found anywhere. I just cannot get excited about Jake Marisnick, Kevin Pillar, Alberto Almora or Delino DeShields Jr.

 

Maybe a trade of Chavis for a CF makes the most sense. Per BTV, the only CF roughly equal to Chavis in value is Philly's Adam Hasely. That does seem like a fair deal and Philly might be OK taking Chavis back for 2B and moving Segura back to SS. Not that Hasely makes my belly button pucker and unpucker...

 

Enrique plays a decnt CF, too, so he makes the most sense, not just financially speaking.

 

I agree: we will trade for a CF'er or look for a 1 year "bridge" to Duran, assuming Bloom has more faith in him than I do.

[moonslav59]

@redsoxstats

The idea of the Red Sox signing LeMahieu seems to go against everything we've heard so far this winter. Tough to see that fit for many reasons, including how Fenway would seemingly take away from his home run totals. 7 of his 10 HR this year were non-barreled, 6 into right field.

 

I don't see any chance we sign Bauer, Springer, Realmuto or DJ.

[mvp 78]

I don't see any chance we sign Bauer, Springer, Realmuto or DJ.

 

Me either. The talk about Sox being interested in DJ is weird to me. More like they were doing due diligence at the start of FA period.