Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[moonslav59]

Since the trade

 

Verdugo (314 PAs): OPS+ 132

Betts (340 PAs): OPS+ 141

 

All things considered (unloading Price, years of control, freed up payroll, getting Downs and Wong), the early returns do look good here...

 

And, that assumes we kept Betts AND he signed with us.

 

Plus, Price's 70 ERA+.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm still sorry to see Mookie go.

 

But Chaim Bloom is the freakin' man. Getting a good return on that deal, and instantly turning us into a team with good pitching. Amazing.

[moonslav59]

I'm still sorry to see Mookie go.

 

But Chaim Bloom is the freakin' man. Getting a good return on that deal, and instantly turning us into a team with good pitching. Amazing.

 

I do, too, and I was the guy saying pay him $400M/14.

 

Had we not had Sale and Price's contracts, it would have been much easier.

[Bellhorn04]

I do, too, and I was the guy saying pay him $400M/14.

 

Had we not had Sale and Price's contracts, it would have been much easier.

 

I don't think Sale's or Price's contracts should have affected the decision. Price, Eovaldi and JDM are all off the books after next year.

 

I'm repeating myself, but I just don't think they wanted to go as high as Mookie was asking.

[moonslav59]

I don't think Sale's or Price's contracts should have affected the decision. Price, Eovaldi and JDM are all off the books after next year.

 

I'm repeating myself, but I just don't think they wanted to go as high as Mookie was asking.

 

It's hard to know, but IMO, they looked at their near term budget (through Price, JD, Eovaldi and maybe even Bogey's opt out) and the longer term budget (Sale and eventual extensions or replacements needed for Devers, ERod, JD, Eovaldi, Bogey and others) and felt they could not squeeze his numbers into a budget and field a deep enough team to compete.

 

You point is well taken. The Sox have a long history of placing a firm value on their own players as they near free agency and not budging from that number. It is actually one area they have been superb in their choices. I can certainly see them determining he just is not worth more than what they thought it would take to keep him. That's pretty simple and perhaps accurate.

[notin]

I don't think Sale's or Price's contracts should have affected the decision. Price, Eovaldi and JDM are all off the books after next year.

 

I'm repeating myself, but I just don't think they wanted to go as high as Mookie was asking.

 

It still affected the decision to some degree. Even JD Martinez said the team would not be able to carry two $30mill players...

[Bellhorn04]

It still affected the decision to some degree. Even JD Martinez said the team would not be able to carry two $30mill players...

 

I don't really care what JDM said, although I love him as a hitter.

 

Let's repeat it one more time: the Red Sox offered Mookie $300 million over 10 years.

 

If he said yes, that's $30 million, ain't it...

[notin]

I don't really care what JDM said, although I love him as a hitter.

 

Let's repeat it one more time: the Red Sox offered Mookie $300 million over 10 years.

 

If he said yes, that's $30 million, ain't it...

 

Not necessarily. They could have deferred some like they did with Sale.

 

I seriously doubt existing commitments had no impact on the budget, even in the short term (which included the more important existing CBA years)...

[Bellhorn04]

I seriously doubt existing commitments had no impact on the budget, even in the short term (which included the more important existing CBA years)...

 

I'm sure they took a lot into consideration.

 

But when you're talking about a guy who may be one of the best in baseball history, and you're the super-wealthy Boston Red Sox, it offends me to think they would let short-term budget and tax factors govern their efforts to retain him.

[Bellhorn04]

Not necessarily. They could have deferred some like they did with Sale.

 

Oh yeah, I'm sure that's what JD Martinez was thinking about when he said that.

[moonslav59]

I'm sure they took a lot into consideration.

 

But when you're talking about a guy who may be one of the best in baseball history, and you're the super-wealthy Boston Red Sox, it offends me to think they would let short-term budget and tax factors govern their efforts to retain him.

 

I don't disagree, and we could have "afforded" him. The point I try to make is that, agree or disagree- like it or not, we do have restrictions on spending, at least every 2-3 years (re-sets). Spending big on anyone, and I have no issues with arguing Betts was worth it over guys like Price and even Sale, JD, Eovaldi and Bogey, means spending less on other positions.

 

With a farm as weak as our was, at the time of choosing what to do with Betts, the choice of signing Betts and not having cheap but good prospects filling open slots would have meant having a very unbalanced team going forward, and when the re-set years came up (every 2-3 years), we'd be a mess.

 

I agree, though. A team like the Sox should be able to afford any one player they want- and even more, but the fact is, we already had several big-priced players on the books.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox are always going to have some high-priced players.

 

If you look at the Dodgers, they said screw it to luxury tax considerations when they signed Bauer and retained Turner.

 

They're over $260 K.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox are always going to have some high-priced players.

 

If you look at the Dodgers, they said screw it to luxury tax considerations when they signed Bauer and retained Turner.

 

They're over $260 K.

 

I doubt we ever get near that, even in a year we view as the one to "go for it" like 2018, but I do think we go over again, and by a lot. I'm guessing we always try to stay under the $20M over line, and we continue to avoid the 3rd year mega tax.

 

We've never reached 3 straight years.

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox are always going to have some high-priced players.

 

If you look at the Dodgers, they said screw it to luxury tax considerations when they signed Bauer and retained Turner.

 

They're over $260 K.

 

Those poor checkbooks!

[moonslav59]

Those poor checkbooks!

 

It's easy to sit back and think Henry can and should spend like the Dodgers, if needed, but the guy has spent and improved this club like no owner before.

 

I can never even come close to thinking I should criticize him for not opening up his checkbook more.

 

I'm fine with criticism on how we spend it, but that's more on the GM not Henry, despite Henry hiring and firing them.

[mvp 78]

It's easy to sit back and think Henry can and should spend like the Dodgers, if needed, but the guy has spent and improved this club like no owner before.

 

I can never even come close to thinking I should criticize him for not opening up his checkbook more.

 

I'm fine with criticism on how we spend it, but that's more on the GM not Henry, despite Henry hiring and firing them.

 

If you'll never criticize him, then you shouldn't complain if other people do. It's a zero sum game.

[moonslav59]

If you'll never criticize him, then you shouldn't complain if other people do. It's a zero sum game.

 

I said I will never criticize him about checkbook opening.

 

I'm not saying nobody else has the right to or not. I just don't get it. Criticizing one of MLB's biggest spending owners for not spending enough invites pushback.

 

Criticizing him for hiring or firing GMs is open season.

 

Again, just my opinions.

 

[Bellhorn04]

I would say hiring Bloom and allowing Cora back are two more feathers in Henry's cap.

[mvp 78]

I would say hiring Bloom and allowing Cora back are two more feathers in Henry's cap.

 

Too bad he has all that bird s*** on his cap for letting Betts go.

[Bellhorn04]

Too bad he has all that bird s*** on his cap for letting Betts go.

 

OTOH the 2021 Red Sox are showing you can win without Mookie.

[mvp 78]

OTOH the 2021 Red Sox are showing you can win without Mookie.

 

It's still April.

[notin]

If you'll never criticize him, then you shouldn't complain if other people do. It's a zero sum game.

 

That doesn’t make sense.

 

So you’re saying if hypothetically I’m 100% satisfied with Henry and feel the job he has done merits no criticism, then I should welcome those with gripes to do so freely?

[Bellhorn04]

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. With the possible exception of Swihart's Ghost.

[moonslav59]

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. With the possible exception of Swihart's Ghost.

 

He sure seems to feel entitled.

[oldtimer]

It's still April.

I believe this team is improved and in a position to improve still more this year.

[notin]

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. With the possible exception of Swihart's Ghost.

 

True, but not having an opinion (or a popular one) doesn’t waive that right...

[mvp 78]

I believe this team is improved and in a position to improve still more this year.

 

They can get better, but their winning % won’t.

[dgalehouse]

I'm still sorry to see Mookie go.

 

But Chaim Bloom is the freakin' man. Getting a good return on that deal, and instantly turning us into a team with good pitching. Amazing.

 

Bell , I'm starting to come around on Bloom . I had him figured as just an Ivy League , Theo wannabe , pencil neck geek. But he has made a few good moves . Hornswoggling Cashman out of Whitlock in itself is worth a big feather in his cap.

[oldtimer]

They can get better, but their winning % won’t.

 

I'll be happy if they come close to matching it going forward. I am an advocate of shoring up the weak spots where they obviously exist.

[moonslav59]

We have a lot of players under performing their career or recent norms. It's not a sure thing they return to norm, but there is hope. Other than a few pitchers, nobody is wildly out performing their career or recent norms.

 

We also have some players waiting in the wings that may add to the mix:

 

Santana

Chavis

Duran

Arauz

Munoz

Downs

Ockimey

 

SaleHouck

Brasier

Bazardo

Seabold

 

and maybe others.

Seabold