Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[notin]

We've got A-Rod's deal with the Yankees and Pujols's deal with the Angels as more evidence that signing guys into their 40's is not a great idea.

 

Absolutely, Teams have been burned. And will continue to do so. You even left out the completely horrific deal Dombrowski gave to Miguel Cabrera.

 

What deal do you think is worse (i.e. more likely to go sour)

 

31yo Price at 7 years / $217 mill or 27yo Mookie at 12 years / $370 mill?

[Bellhorn04]

Big-bodied power brokers break down. Stanton and Judge are always hurt. Wiry guys juggling bowling balls every winter last longer.

 

And some argue that speed is a huge part of Mookie's game and that will be where he declines.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I saw nothing on the board today that changes that...

 

Even my fingers be clunky; they type Cora-Cora-Cora so much I expect an ambush attack by Yankee fans any Sunday... or the Wicked Witch of the West trying to sell me coffee.

[Bellhorn04]

What deal do you think is worse (i.e. more likely to go sour)

 

31yo Price at 7 years / $217 mill or 27yo Mookie at 12 years / $370 mill?

 

I'd say roughly equal. But to me the back end of Mookie's deal is even scarier.

 

Mookie will be 28 when his deal starts and 40 when it ends.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And some argue that speed is a huge part of Mookie's game and that will be where he declines.

 

Look what speed did to Buchholz!

[notin]

I'd say roughly equal. But to me the back end of Mookie's deal is even scarier.

 

Mookie will be 28 when his deal starts and 40 when it ends.

 

So a 40yo Hall of Famer making $31mill is that much scarier than a 38yo former All Star/Cy Young starting pitcher making $31mill?

[notin]

And some argue that speed is a huge part of Mookie's game and that will be where he declines.

 

Batspeed is a huge part of Mookie's game. He'd still be elite if he ran like Matt Adams...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Batspeed is a huge part of Mookie's game. He'd still be elite if he ran like Matt Adams...

 

This is good point, and batspeed looks cool as one word. Remember my Hank Aaron comps with Betts -- Henry in his 20s was an elite baserunner and outfielder (for his era), and evolved into an all-time power hitter as his body thickened...

[dgalehouse]

Some owners are willing to take more risks than other owners. But they are not stupid and naive. They know full well that expensive, long-term deals may go sour after a while. They also know that , if they do go sour, it's not the end of the world. They will still be extremely wealthy. Meanwhile, they are enjoying the moment. And so are their fans.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Some owners are willing to take more risks than other owners. But they are not stupid and naive. They know full well that expensive, long-term deals may go sour after a while. They also know that , if they do go sour, it's not the end of the world. They will still be extremely wealthy. Meanwhile, they are enjoying the moment. And so are their fans.

 

Another good point -- and being discussed this week by national media in regards to Mookie's contract. All agree that winning multiple titles in the first half will make the back half worth it. His future struggles as he ages won't negate the additional fan enthusiasm generated now when/if rings are won.

[notin]

Another good point -- and being discussed this week by national media in regards to Mookie's contract. All agree that winning multiple titles in the first half will make the back half worth it. His future struggles as he ages won't negate the additional fan enthusiasm generated now when/if rings are won.

 

So does that same logic apply to Price?

[Bellhorn04]

So a 40yo Hall of Famer making $31mill is that much scarier than a 38yo former All Star/Cy Young starting pitcher making $31mill?

 

12 years is 5 years longer than 7 years. My philosophy is that there is a lot that can go wrong, and the more time is involved, the more opportunity for those things to go wrong.

 

The other thing is that pitchers and position players are not apples to apples.

 

Price's contract was a sizable overpay, no question. But at the time, we had a potential window for success, and pitching was our big need.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So does that same logic apply to Price?

 

Put it this way: Mookie's shirt is now the No. 1 seller in the MLB. I never once saw a Red Sox fan wearing a Price shirt.

[Bellhorn04]

Put it this way: Mookie's shirt is now the No. 1 seller in the MLB. I never once saw a Red Sox fan wearing a Price shirt.

 

Price is, however, the guy on the cover of the 2018 Red Sox World Series DVD set.

[dgalehouse]

Henry has been the savior to all long-suffering Sox fans.

 

He could cut spending to $120M for a few years, and I'd till be eternally grateful he became our owner.

 

With a tip of his yachting cap , John Henry says, " Thank you for the kind words, Moon. " " To show my gratitude, I am going to consider lowering the ticket and concession prices at Fenway. I realize that the " little people " out there have their spending limits , just as I do."

[Bellhorn04]

With a tip of his yachting cap , John Henry says, " Thank you for the kind words, Moon. " " To show my gratitude, I am going to consider lowering the ticket and concession prices at Fenway. I realize that the " little people " out there have their spending limits , just as I do."

 

Show me an owner of a sports team who isn't rich and doesn't love money. Teams are not owned for philanthropy purposes.

[notin]

12 years is 5 years longer than 7 years. My philosophy is that there is a lot that can go wrong, and the more time is involved, the more opportunity for those things to go wrong.

 

The other thing is that pitchers and position players are not apples to apples.

 

Price's contract was a sizable overpay, no question. But at the time, we had a potential window for success, and pitching was our big need.

 

Yes, 12 years is longer than 7 years. But 27 is younger than 31.

 

One thing about these two deals is that unlike Price, there is nothing about Mookie's game that has a high probability of leading to an injury that ends a season or a career. While he certainly can have a career-ending injury any day, he is not going to get some wrist or elbow injury from swinging a bat properly or from making a clean play in the outfield. But Price or any pitcher could experience a serious injury from the mere act of pitching. And many, many pitchers do...

[mvp 78]

Price is, however, the guy on the cover of the 2018 Red Sox World Series DVD set.

 

Should he have been though?

[notin]

Put it this way: Mookie's shirt is now the No. 1 seller in the MLB. I never once saw a Red Sox fan wearing a Price shirt.

 

But the point being made was that winning the titles makes the downside of megadeals worthwhile. So was Price's contract worth it for the 2018 title?

[notin]

Should he have been though?

 

Would you have preferred Steve Pearce?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But the point being made was that winning the titles makes the downside of megadeals worthwhile. So was Price's contract worth it for the 2018 title?

 

Good question for the owners. They signed off on it, but also canned the GM who recruited him and hired a new guy to dump him -- while still on the hook for nearly half of their investment.

 

It's not all about winning. Mookie is beloved, Price is belaboring. Was anyone really that surprised after the '18 Series when his buds in the media named a first baseman MVP instead of the pitcher who won two games?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, 12 years is longer than 7 years. But 27 is younger than 31.

 

One thing about these two deals is that unlike Price, there is nothing about Mookie's game that has a high probability of leading to an injury that ends a season or a career. While he certainly can have a career-ending injury any day, he is not going to get some wrist or elbow injury from swinging a bat properly or from making a clean play in the outfield. But Price or any pitcher could experience a serious injury from the mere act of pitching. And many, many pitchers do...

 

That's correct, pitchers are much higher risk injuries. That's part of why it's not apples to apples.

[Bellhorn04]

But the point being made was that winning the titles makes the downside of megadeals worthwhile. So was Price's contract worth it for the 2018 title?

 

I think Price's contract was *mostly* worth it for the 2016, 2017 and 2018 division titles and the 2018 ring.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think Price's contract was *mostly* worth it for the 2016, 2017 and 2018 division titles and the 2018 ring.

 

Have to wonder if analytics departments have devised some formula that estimates/calculates all the additional revenue from winning it all, and are then able to correlate it with investments in the championship roster, including the cost of draftees and development, trades (in exchanged for those drafted/developed) or free agent signees. I know the guys who invented WAR put a price tag on each win generated, so there must be greater values assigned to each succeeding postseason win...

[Bellhorn04]

Have to wonder if analytics departments have devised some formula that estimates/calculates all the additional revenue from winning it all, and are then able to correlate it with investments in the championship roster, including the cost of draftees and development, trades (in exchanged for those drafted/developed) or free agent signees. I know the guys who invented WAR put a price tag on each win generated, so there must be greater values assigned to each succeeding postseason win...

 

It's actually FanGraphs who came up with those dollar values per WAR. They do it based on actual contracts to free agents and WAR generated by the free agents. What it really represents is the dollar cost per WAR of an average free agent, including all the busts of course. That's why the values look inflated.

[Bellhorn04]

Have to wonder if analytics departments have devised some formula that estimates/calculates all the additional revenue from winning it all, and are then able to correlate it with investments in the championship roster, including the cost of draftees and development, trades (in exchanged for those drafted/developed) or free agent signees. I know the guys who invented WAR put a price tag on each win generated, so there must be greater values assigned to each succeeding postseason win...

 

There would be a lot of guesswork involved in any such calculation, of course.

 

The Red Sox won it all in 2018, but in 2019 NESN viewership dropped by 20%. It seems that Red Sox fans aren't quite as loyal as they once were.

 

Nonetheless the stated market value of the franchise just keeps going up.

[notin]

That's correct, pitchers are much higher risk injuries. That's part of why it's not apples to apples.

 

Exactly. It's apples to half-rotten apples!!

[mvp 78]

Would you have preferred Steve Pearce?

 

He was the WS MVP.

[mvp 78]

There would be a lot of guesswork involved in any such calculation, of course.

 

The Red Sox won it all in 2018, but in 2019 NESN viewership dropped by 20%. It seems that Red Sox fans aren't quite as loyal as they once were.

 

Nonetheless the stated market value of the franchise just keeps going up.

 

Will that number keep going down as people continue to cut the cord?

[notin]

He was the WS MVP.

 

I think they planned to use him as the cover art, but he got injured taking the picture...