Chris Sale needs Tommy John Surgery

[a700hitter]

Notin is 100% right on this IMO. TJS is definitely elective surgery. He could retire and live a perfectly normal life without the surgery.

Disagree. Whether he can retire or not is no one's business.

[mvp 78]

Disagree. Whether he can retire or not is no one's business.

 

Well, it’s clear that we disagree on what “elective” surgery means. It’s why people have been talking in circles for the past 100 posts of so.

[mvp 78]

To me, it’s not worth the risk to go anywhere near a hospital right now. Considering that Sale just had pneumonia a few weeks ago, he should be extra careful with being out in public. Hospitals and nursing homes are just prime for outbreaks.

[mvp 78]

Ok, but at the end of the day, our opinions don't matter. All that matters is what the doctors and the regulators that oversee them think

 

And sometimes a lot of money can affect what those people believe.

[notin]

Ok, but at the end of the day, our opinions don't matter. All that matters is what the doctors and the regulators that oversee them think

 

Well, the original argument was whether or not they were elective surgeries. By every definition I have found, they were. So what Sale and Syndergaard did was look for regions of the country still allowing elective surgery...

[a700hitter]

Well, it’s clear that we disagree on what “elective” surgery means. It’s why people have been talking in circles for the past 100 posts of so.

And the decision makers responsible to enforce their own definitions let him get the surgery deciding it didn't need to be postponed. The Red Sox and the Mets, who are the employers wanted the surgeries. The difference of opinion is not whether it is an elective surgery. The difference of opinion from my point of view is whether it is a "bad look" for the athletes. I think that it in no way reflects on them. The doctors and their employers are calling these shots.

[notin]

And the decision makers responsible to enforce their own definitions let him get the surgery deciding it didn't need to be postponed. The Red Sox and the Mets, who are the employers wanted the surgeries. The difference of opinion is not whether it is an elective surgery. The difference of opinion from my point of view is whether it is a "bad look" for the athletes. I think that it in no way reflects on them. The doctors and their employers are calling these shots.

 

I think the “bad look” argument was more along the employers, much like when the Thunder (the NBA team, not the TS poster) had received nearly as many COVID tests as the rest of the country. No one mentioned Gobert there...

Edited March 31, 2020 by notin

[a700hitter]

I think the “bad look” argument was more along the employers, much like when the Thunder had received nearly as many COVID tests as the rest of the country. No one mentioned Gobert there...

Good, the bad look is on the Red Sox management. Apparently, they didn't care. Their PR game has been slipping lately. We agree that it doesn't reflect on the athletes, regardless of their wealth.

[notin]

Good, the bad look is on the Red Sox management. Apparently, they didn't care. Their PR game has been slipping lately. We agree that it doesn't reflect on the athletes, regardless of their wealth.

 

Like any patient, they’re just trying to get treated.

 

Really look at the Thunder administering 58 COVID tests. Obviously anyone testing positive benefited. But the media coverage of the team for testing so many when tests were so rare was thoroughly negative...

[a700hitter]

Like any patient, they’re just trying to get treated.

 

Really look at the Thunder administering 58 COVID tests. Obviously anyone testing positive benefited. But the media coverage of the team for testing so many when tests were so rare was thoroughly negative...

And bad PR doesn't matter (especially in a crisis) except to those who might get hurt by it. If it doesn't matter to them, the bad PR is meaningless.

[Kimmi]

Well, Sale had the surgery today in LA. Guess that solves that debate

 

I am extremely disappointed in Sale, the Red Sox, including my man Bloom, and Dr. ElAttrace for performing this surgery.

[Kimmi]

What if it wasn't Chris Sale or Syndegaard? Let's say it is a kid in AA who is 23 years old looking at 2 years of recovery at best. He's supposed to sacrifice his livelihood? He has no education or training outside of baseball. He only knows how to throw a baseball. I am sorry, but that isn't elective surgery.

 

As I stated in another post, I could see the surgery as being more than elective if I had to have it done as a teacher, or in the case of this 23 year old kid. I could understand the surgery if someone is not going to be able to provide food for his/her family if the surgery were not done.

 

Sale and Syndegaard are not in danger of going hungry if they don't have the surgery.

[Kimmi]

Each case should get determined on its own. Maybe your wife's surgery was going to use resources that the hospital was going to redeploy for Coronavirus care. Dr. Andrews probably has his own team of nurses and anesthesiologists that would not be working with Coronavirus patients. In that case, delaying those surgeries would be pointless virtue signaling for PR purposes --- but isn't this what the Left excels at?

 

Every surgery uses resources that are needed in the coronavirus fight. Every surgery.

 

FTR, Dr. Andrews has suspended performing TJS during the pandemic. Good on him.

 

The doctors who are still performing the surgeries are not doing anything illegal. There is a lot left open to interpretation of what is 'essential', so doctors are able to justify the surgeries from a legal standpoint.

 

Doing what is ethically right is a whole other story. IMO, these people are behaving selfishly and irresponsibly, and are really on the wrong side of whether performing the surgery is ethical or not.

[Kimmi]

Look man, you can say that all you want, and you have been doing just that all day, but you're just flat out wrong. By allowing them to be performed, they must be considered essential. There's no other way around it. Seems pretty clear to the rest of us

 

They are not essential. No way, no how.

 

They are being performed for personal gain.

[Kimmi]

And the decision makers responsible to enforce their own definitions let him get the surgery deciding it didn't need to be postponed. The Red Sox and the Mets, who are the employers wanted the surgeries. The difference of opinion is not whether it is an elective surgery. The difference of opinion from my point of view is whether it is a "bad look" for the athletes. I think that it in no way reflects on them. The doctors and their employers are calling these shots.

 

It is a terrible look for all involved. More so for the doctors than for the athletes. Shame on them.

[Kimmi]

Good, the bad look is on the Red Sox management. Apparently, they didn't care. Their PR game has been slipping lately. We agree that it doesn't reflect on the athletes, regardless of their wealth.

 

It reflects on the athlete as well. Sale could very well refuse to have the surgery until a later date.

[Thunder]

And sometimes a lot of money can affect what those people believe.

 

I'm not disputing that at all. That's how the world works. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying it changes the outcome

[Kimmi]

I'm not disputing that at all. That's how the world works. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying it changes the outcome

 

If money is changing the outcome of the decision in favor of the wealthy, then you can't really say the surgery is essential.

[Thunder]

If money is changing the outcome of the decision in favor of the wealthy, then you can't really say the surgery is essential.

 

What I think of the surgery doesn't matter, because of the fact that money changes the outcome

[mvp 78]

If money is changing the outcome of the decision in favor of the wealthy, then you can't really say the surgery is essential.

 

^^^

[Bellhorn04]

Every surgery uses resources that are needed in the coronavirus fight. Every surgery.

 

Is this really the case though? The surgery was performed at the Kerlan-Jobe Institute, where what they do is orthopedic and sports-related medicine.

 

What resources of theirs are actually going to be called on in the coronavirus fight? Do they have anything that can't be obtained elsewhere and in a more cost-efficient way?

 

I don't know the answer to those questions, just posing them.

[Elktonnick]

Is this really the case though? The surgery was performed at the Kerlan-Jobe Institute, where what they do is orthopedic and sports-related medicine.

 

What resources of theirs are actually going to be called on in the coronavirus fight? Do they have anything that can't be obtained elsewhere and in a more cost-efficient way?

 

I don't know the answer to those questions, just posing them.

 

It is really hard to tolerate this extent of selfishness when so many are making unselfish sacrifices for the public good.

[mvp 78]

It is really hard to tolerate this extent of selfishness when so many are making unselfish sacrifices for the public good.

 

Damn that's a good line.

[Bellhorn04]

It is really hard to tolerate this extent of selfishness when so many are making unselfish sacrifices for the public good.

 

That doesn't answer the question of whether a surgery like Sale's has any real effect on the coronavirus fight.

[Thunder]

It is really hard to tolerate this extent of selfishness when so many are making unselfish sacrifices for the public good.

 

There's a giant hole in the Green Monster right now, because that just came out of left field

[a700hitter]

As I stated in another post, I could see the surgery as being more than elective if I had to have it done as a teacher, or in the case of this 23 year old kid. I could understand the surgery if someone is not going to be able to provide food for his/her family if the surgery were not done.

 

Sale and Syndegaard are not in danger of going hungry if they don't have the surgery.

From each according to his ability to each according to his needs?

[a700hitter]

Every surgery uses resources that are needed in the coronavirus fight. Every surgery.

 

Not true. Edited March 31, 2020 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

It is a terrible look for all involved. More so for the doctors than for the athletes. Shame on them.

How about the employer's who direct and pay for the healthcare of the athletes?

[a700hitter]

It reflects on the athlete as well. Sale could very well refuse to have the surgery until a later date.

Do you know what is in his contract? Most players listen to the team and the doctors. You are putting too much responsibility on the athlete to meet you view of social awareness. Very judgmental on your part. Sale putting off his surgery as some show of selflessness would have been as meaningless to the cause as wearing a ribbon to support the cause.

[Elktonnick]

That doesn't answer the question of whether a surgery like Sale's has any real effect on the coronavirus fight.

 

If one has to explain it then you will never understand