Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[moonslav59]

who says bonds and clemens ever played clean?

bonds entered the league in 1986.

for context teammates on my division 2 college team in NH were using steroids in the mid 80's.

are you telling me that MLB players were behind the times of my division 2 country bumpkin teammates???

very doubtful. in fact...impossible.

steroids didnt magically appear in MLB in the mid 90's. they were being used for at least...at least...a decade prior.

newsflash.......MLB PLAYERS WERE USING STEROIDS IN THE 1980'S

 

that said...steroids/hgh or not.....barry bonds should be in the hall of fame for the simple fact that he was intentionally walked with the bases loaded.....

 

If you look at Bonds's body shape early in his career, you can guess he was not on steroids, then.

[Slasher9]

I know the juice didn't magically appear in the mid-late 90's. But that's when the home run totals really jumped and McGwire and Sosa left Roger Maris in the dust.

 

that wasnt solely directed at you. something tells me that the baseball changed significantly after the strike.

also, companies like Balco were coming out with better product.

remember weed in the 80's? now try smoking some of that Hydro stuff developed today with 30% Thc content.

science.

[mvp 78]

A lot of this is just perception, but:

 

McGwire and Sosa, along with Canseco, are sort of the poster boys for players whose numbers were largely a product of the juice.

 

Bonds and Clemens are sort of the poster boys for players who would have been great without the juice but got greedy.

 

I don't care about the PED stuff. I don't believe what they did was against the rules at the time. Canseco was good, but not good enough for HOF IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

also, companies like Balco were coming out with better product.

 

Yeah, I think around 1998 the juice became something really special.

[Slasher9]

If you look at Bonds's body shape early in his career, you can guess he was not on steroids, then.

 

HGH is what significantly changed the shape of Bonds. HGH is really impactful after age 30 when your body naturally makes less of it. but again...do you think my div 2 college was ahead of the steroid curve vs MLB?

[Bellhorn04]

I don't care about the PED stuff. I don't believe what they did was against the rules at the time. Canseco was good, but not good enough for HOF IMO.

 

I respect that view. I'm kind of an agnostic on the HOF stuff. Whoever gets in gets in. It's not my call.

[mvp 78]

I know the juice didn't magically appear in the mid-late 90's. But that's when the home run totals really jumped and McGwire and Sosa left Roger Maris in the dust.

 

There was a pretty substantial jump in the late 80's in 1987 too. https://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hihr6.shtml

 

99-01 was the peak for the PED era. However, we're seeing even higher totals since 2016.

[mvp 78]

I respect that view. I'm kind of an agnostic on the HOF stuff. Whoever gets in gets in. It's not my call.

 

There are lots of HOF purists who don't want PED users in because those players "cheated." I wish they would also look at all the people who were elected by buddies on the veterans committee in the 50's and 60's who don't deserve to be in.

 

The HOF is a racket and built on a lie that Abner Doubleday founded the game.

[notin]

There are lots of HOF purists who don't want PED users in because those players "cheated." I wish they would also look at all the people who were elected by buddies on the veterans committee in the 50's and 60's who don't deserve to be in.

 

The HOF is a racket and built on a lie that Abner Doubleday founded the game.

 

 

Not even that they just cheated. It’s that they “cheated on a way I don’t approve of.” Other known cheaters like Gaylord Perry and Phil Niekro were enshrined because they had the numbers, which was the only criteria.

 

Many of the PED-users actually didn’t even cheat, since there were no rules or insufficient rules at the time...

[mvp 78]

Not even that they just cheated. It’s that they “cheated on a way I don’t approve of.” Other known cheaters like Gaylord Perry and Phil Niekro were enshrined because they had the numbers, which was the only criteria.

 

Many of the PED-users actually didn’t even cheat, since there were no rules or insufficient rules at the time...

 

I agree 100%. Maybe people wouldn't care if they made steroids into a silly joke like Perry was on This Week In Baseball. If the war on drugs never started, this would definitely be a nonissue.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree 100%. Maybe people wouldn't care if they made steroids into a silly joke like Perry was on This Week In Baseball. If the war on drugs never started, this would definitely be a nonissue.

 

I think there would still be a pretty big issue with the home run record being made into a joke.

[jung]

Well there are two sides to every coin. The drug induced HR battle between Sosa and Mcgwire literally pulled MLB out of the doldrums of the strike years which almost killed MLB for at least the second time in its life.

 

Where Manfred has gotten it wrong is that the HR battle between Sosa and Mcgwire was exciting. There is nothing exciting about seeing poorly struck baseballs hit by pipsqueaks leave the yard. His ultra-juiced baseball is a fail as has been most of the garbage Manfred has foisted onto the game.

[mvp 78]

I think there would still be a pretty big issue with the home run record being made into a joke.

 

Which record? Marris? Aaron?

 

We were all told that McGwire and Sosa saved baseball in 98! It wasn't a joke to anyone then? Or would have only been a joke if Sosa got the record not McGwire?

 

Bonds only became a joke when the BALCO stuff came up. I was living in SF during 2001 so my view on him may not be CLEAR.

[mvp 78]

Well there are two sides to every coin. The drug induced HR battle between Sosa and Mcgwire literally pulled MLB out of the doldrums of the strike years which almost killed MLB for at least the second time in its life.

 

Where Manfred has gotten it wrong is that the HR battle between Sosa and Mcgwire was exciting. There is nothing exciting about seeing poorly struck baseballs hit by pipsqueaks leave the yard. His ultra-juiced baseball is a fail as has been most of the garbage Manfred has foisted onto the game.

 

The reason it's less exciting now is because baseball is unable to market the current crop of players they way they marketed Sosa and McGwire.

 

Mike Trout should be the most well known baseball player, even to casual fans. He should be Michael Jordan. MLB has failed to market him and other young stars because it's run by a bunch of old twats they only care about the money, not keeping it going for another 100 years.

[Bellhorn04]

Which record? Marris? Aaron?

 

We were all told that McGwire and Sosa saved baseball in 98! It wasn't a joke to anyone then? Or would have only been a joke if Sosa got the record not McGwire?

 

Maris. The exploits of McGwire and Sosa, and then Bonds, became a bad joke in retrospect, when we knew they were juiced.

[notin]

I agree 100%. Maybe people wouldn't care if they made steroids into a silly joke like Perry was on This Week In Baseball. If the war on drugs never started, this would definitely be a nonissue.

 

I always liked Jayson Stark’s take. “Fans only hate cheating if it leads to more home runs.”

[Bellhorn04]

I always liked Jayson Stark’s take. “Fans only hate cheating if it leads to more home runs.”

 

But on the flip side there's Clemens, and his 'remarkable career renaissance' after going to the Jays...

[notin]

But on the flip side there's Clemens, and his 'remarkable career renaissance' after going to the Jays...

 

 

But was he just lumped in after steroids and PEDs made a joke of home run records?

[notin]

The reason it's less exciting now is because baseball is unable to market the current crop of players they way they marketed Sosa and McGwire.

 

Mike Trout should be the most well known baseball player, even to casual fans. He should be Michael Jordan. MLB has failed to market him and other young stars because it's run by a bunch of old twats they only care about the money, not keeping it going for another 100 years.

 

 

MLB might be hesitant to market their product by using any individual player just in case he does turn out to be a user at any point in his career...

[mvp 78]

I always liked Jayson Stark’s take. “Fans only hate cheating if it leads to more home runs.”

 

I disagree!

 

DINGERS! DINGERS! DINGERS!

[mvp 78]

MLB might be hesitant to market any individual just in case he does turn out to be a user at any point in his career...

 

I hope not. That would be an amazingly dumb reason.

[notin]

I hope not. That would be an amazingly dumb reason.

 

 

Why?

 

If MLB was all about “Come see Mike Trout!” And ran commercials with catchy slogans “Mike Trout is never out!” And pushed him up as the next Willie Mays. Then he tests positive for PEDs, what happens?

 

Obviously there are massive differences, but Subway is an example of a company that got burned and had to do a lot of back pedaling after marketing using an individual...

[Slasher9]

MLB should be marketing the hell out of trout, betts, judge, acuna, etc.

MLB should have a free youtube channel that they release video clips to all the time.

MLB should promote a free version of an app that gives good content....vid clips in real time.

kids dont really watch tv anymore and they certainly dont want to pay to watch vid clips.

they watch youtube, snapchat, IG, and tiktok.....

[mvp 78]

Why?

 

If MLB was all about “Come see Mike Trout!” And ran commercials with catchy slogans “Mike Trout is never out!” And pushed him up as the next Willie Mays. Then he tests positive for PEDs, what happens?

 

Obviously there are massive differences, but Subway is an example of a company that got burned and had to do a lot of back pedaling after marketing using an individual...

 

So they are never going to market another baseball player ever because he could possibly be on steroids? What would the goal of marketing be? RED SOX YANKEES GREEN GRASS TAKE ME OUT TO THE BALLGAME!!! That s*** isn't bringing anyone new to baseball.

 

MLB needs to make stars. They haven't.

[mvp 78]

MLB should be marketing the hell out of trout, betts, judge, acuna, etc.

MLB should have a free youtube channel that they release video clips to all the time.

MLB should promote a free version of an app that gives good content....vid clips in real time.

kids dont really watch tv anymore and they certainly dont want to pay to watch vid clips.

they watch youtube, snapchat, IG, and tiktok.....

 

Honestly, it's not that hard of a fix!

[notin]

So they are never going to market another baseball player ever because he could possibly be on steroids? What would the goal of marketing be? RED SOX YANKEES GREEN GRASS TAKE ME OUT TO THE BALLGAME!!! That s*** isn't bringing anyone new to baseball.

 

MLB needs to make stars. They haven't.

 

 

But PED usage seems to be a bigger taboo in baseball than in other sports. No one cares if a football player tests positive. It’s actually expected on some levels.

 

MLB needs to market itself using more social media as Slasher suggested. That’s where the eyes are...

[Bellhorn04]

Trout is hardly the first star player whose marketability has been hurt by playing on crappy teams though?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

who says bonds and clemens ever played clean?

bonds entered the league in 1986.

for context teammates on my division 2 college team in NH were using steroids in the mid 80's.

are you telling me that MLB players were behind the times of my division 2 country bumpkin teammates???

very doubtful. in fact...impossible.

steroids didnt magically appear in MLB in the mid 90's. they were being used for at least...at least...a decade prior.

newsflash.......MLB PLAYERS WERE USING STEROIDS IN THE 1980'S

 

that said...steroids/hgh or not.....barry bonds should be in the hall of fame for the simple fact that he was intentionally walked with the bases loaded.....

 

I'm with you, Slash. Competitive athletes have always and will always ingest, inject or do whatever they can to enhance performances. Especially in a sport where "stealing" (bases, signs, hearts) is an accepted part of its lexicon.

 

In 1980 I joined a fraternity's flag football team at a southern college. Before the title game, the frat prez had a chalkboard meeting in a classroom next to the field. A brother passed around a bottle of black beauties to prep all the players. I abstained, not caring quite as much as others about being stimulated for an intramural championship.

[Slasher9]

Trout is hardly the first star player whose marketability has been hurt by playing on crappy teams though?

 

i disagree with this only in the fact that i dont believe MLB is even trying to market Trout.

try this out for yourself: ask any 10-14 year old "who the best player in MLB is". i bet most of them will say Trout.

then ask them: "have you ever seen video of him playing". i bet most havent.

MLB does not make it easy for kids to see vid clips.

Trout may very well be the best baseball player the human race has ever had. they should be marketing the hell out of him.

[mvp 78]

But PED usage seems to be a bigger taboo in baseball than in other sports. No one cares if a football player tests positive. It’s actually expected on some levels.

 

MLB needs to market itself using more social media as Slasher suggested. That’s where the eyes are...

 

And they market it through promoting stars..................