Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[a700hitter]

I bet the Sox went into this trade realizing there was a chance for this to happen since he missed substantial time last year.

Mookie was a pure salary dump. Verdugo is damaged goods. And Downs is no Jeter

[a700hitter]

Also, Verdugo is under control for a long while. Hard to call him a bust at this point. He wasn’t brought here to be Mookie 2.0.

I am an early adopter of the “Verdugo is a Bust” verdict. Hopefully, he proves me wrong. I followed him a bit last year before he got injured and asked around NL fans about him. There wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm about him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I am an early adopter of the “Verdugo is a Bust” verdict. Hopefully, he proves me wrong. I followed him a bit last year before he got injured and asked around NL fans about him. There wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm about him.

 

I was impressed by him in the Boston series in July and was convinced they'd demand him in any Betts trade. After a good rookie year and better upside, Verdugo appeared to be the best replacement available. Other posters inadvertently agreed, when they mocked my insistence at his inclusion for one-year-of-Mookie.

 

Obviously, the odds of a monumental, franchise-defining trade turning out positive go down when the centerpiece is damaged goods. Though young guys can heal quickly from muscle pulls (legs, even shoulders, obliques, etc.), two problem areas that can linger forever are knees or backs...

[mvp 78]

Mookie was a pure salary dump. Verdugo is damaged goods. And Downs is no Jeter

 

No way were the Sox trading Mookie for 23 year old Mookie and AA Derek Jeter. That’s not a reasonable expectation IMO.

[mvp 78]

I am an early adopter of the “Verdugo is a Bust” verdict. Hopefully, he proves me wrong. I followed him a bit last year before he got injured and asked around NL fans about him. There wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm about him.

There was tons of enthusiasm for signing Crawford.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, Verdugo is under control for a long while. Hard to call him a bust at this point. He wasn’t brought here to be Mookie 2.0.

 

FWIW Roenicke says Verdugo is ahead of schedule and may be able to play in spring games by mid-March.

[mvp 78]

FWIW Roenicke says Verdugo is ahead of schedule and may be able to play in spring games by mid-March.

 

Frankly, if he was out until ASB, I still wouldn’t call him a bust.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is literally no need for the sox to rush Verdugo back. Verdugo wasn't obtained for 2020

[Elktonnick]

There is literally no need for the sox to rush Verdugo back. Verdugo wasn't obtained for 2020

 

I agree. It is more important that his back issues are totally resolved. Moreover they need to know how he developed a stress fracture in the first place. I read somewhere that his form in the weight room wasn't very good. I am not saying that was the cause but if I were Boston I'd like to know.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There is literally no need for the sox to rush Verdugo back. Verdugo wasn't obtained for 2020

 

Whaddayamean? Haven't you been listening to Henry, Warner, Kennedy and Bloom all winter? We're going for it -- this year and every year!

[Jasonbay44]

There was tons of enthusiasm for signing Crawford.

 

I was one of those people thrilled for Crawford... I thought worst case at least this ******* will stop making Red Sox life miserable with how much he kills them..

[notin]

I am an early adopter of the “Verdugo is a Bust” verdict. Hopefully, he proves me wrong. I followed him a bit last year before he got injured and asked around NL fans about him. There wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm about him.

 

A lot of people labeled Moncada a bust after his whopping 20 plate appearances in Boston.

 

I think we can let Verdugo get at least one plate appearance before we call him a bust.

 

And no idea whose these NL fans you talked to who weren’t excited about him, but apparently these folks must be very tough to impress. I live in an NL city and saw him play a few times last ST and in the season and thought he looked very exciting, especially on defense...

[a700hitter]

No way were the Sox trading Mookie for 23 year old Mookie and AA Derek Jeter. That’s not a reasonable expectation IMO.

Yep, I get that. That’s why I would have preferred to ride with 1 year of Mookie and make another run at a title. The Yankees pitching is very vulnerable despite signing Cole.

[a700hitter]

A lot of people labeled Moncada a bust after his whopping 20 plate appearances in Boston.

 

I think we can let Verdugo get at least one plate appearance before we call him a bust.

 

And no idea whose these NL fans you talked to who weren’t excited about him, but apparently these folks must be very tough to impress. I live in an NL city and saw him play a few times last ST and in the season and thought he looked very exciting, especially on defense...

Apples and oranges. Moncada didn’t have a chronic injury spanning 2 seasons.

[notin]

Mookie was a pure salary dump. Verdugo is damaged goods. And Downs is no Jeter

 

This is old news. Everyone knows it was a salary dump. There was no other reason to include Price...

[a700hitter]

I was one of those people thrilled for Crawford... I thought worst case at least this ******* will stop making Red Sox life miserable with how much he kills them..

Who could have foreseen that he would become a complete dog. We should have known from his introductory press conference when he showed that he was a choker developing laryngitis and being unable to speak. Plus, Theo didn’t have to outbid the closest bidder by $40 million.

[a700hitter]

Mookie Betts makes Dodgers debut in Spring Training

WWW.MLB.COM

---

GLENDALE, Ariz. -- If the Dodgers win the World Series this year, Mookie Betts’ inaugural address to his new club will go down as the greatest tone-setter since Kirk Gibson in 1988. Flashback to Vero Beach. Gibson, who had just joined the Dodgers as a free agent, went ballistic over

[Jasonbay44]

A lot of people labeled Moncada a bust after his whopping 20 plate appearances in Boston.

 

I think we can let Verdugo get at least one plate appearance before we call him a bust.

 

And no idea whose these NL fans you talked to who weren’t excited about him, but apparently these folks must be very tough to impress. I live in an NL city and saw him play a few times last ST and in the season and thought he looked very exciting, especially on defense...

A lot of people were also pretty low on Xander and Devers after slow starts.

[notin]

Apples and oranges. Moncada didn’t have a chronic injury spanning 2 seasons.

 

And Verdugo didn't strike out 12 times in his first 19 at bats.

 

Bottom line - many prematurely labeled other players as "busts" and were clearly wrong because those players were not immediate success stories. Verdugo isn't the first and won't be the last player to have an injury early n his career. But very few of them are immediate career enders...

[Jasonbay44]

I’m not “happy” about the trade but at this point I’ve moved on. I hope all three of the players we got flourish in Boston, and I’m not gonna compare them to Mookie, because they won’t ever be Mookie.

[a700hitter]

And Verdugo didn't strike out 12 times in his first 19 at bats.

 

Bottom line - many prematurely labeled other players as "busts" and were clearly wrong because those players were not immediate success stories. Verdugo isn't the first and won't be the last player to have an injury early n his career. But very few of them are immediate career enders...

Maybe I will be wrong, but I am going to remain pissed for a while. I feel cheated out of 1 year of Mookie and a legitimate shot at a title in 2020. I am really pissed that they have thrown away the season preemptively.

[notin]

Maybe I will be wrong, but I am going to remain pissed for a while. I feel cheated out of 1 year of Mookie and a legitimate shot at a title in 2020. I am really pissed that they have thrown away the season preemptively.

 

How about we just call you "pessimistic about Verdugo"? You avoid the dreaded and supposedly permanent "bust" label, and there is absolutely no way you can be wrong merely by being pessimistic.

 

Also, the Sox chances for 2020 would have been WAY more dependent on Sale, Price and Eovaldi. Mookie could have won the Triple Crown, MVP, and Nobel Prize for Chemistry, but if any or all of Sale, Price and Eovaldi falter, this team was doomed. And then next year, all three oft-injured pitchers come back a year older and Mookie is gone...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How about we just call you "pessimistic about Verdugo"? You avoid the dreaded and supposedly permanent "bust" label, and there is absolutely no way you can be wrong merely by being pessimistic.

 

Also, the Sox chances for 2020 would have been WAY more dependent on Sale, Price and Eovaldi. Mookie could have won the Triple Crown, MVP, and Nobel Prize for Chemistry, but if any or all of Sale, Price and Eovaldi falter, this team was doomed. And then next year, all three oft-injured pitchers come back a year older and Mookie is gone...

 

He'd get suspended for the chemistry, but only for using after the MLB banned it. Like PED users or video users...

 

I always love when some writers say Bonds and Clemens should be in the Hall, since they were already great before they juiced. Ya, and Son of Sam served in the US Army before he started shooting teenagers in parked cars (that's the best notin analogy I can come up with tonight).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Maybe I will be wrong, but I am going to remain pissed for a while. I feel cheated out of 1 year of Mookie and a legitimate shot at a title in 2020. I am really pissed that they have thrown away the season preemptively.

 

I'm with you on that one; watching Mookie's salary drive lead Boston back into contention is what I campaigned for all winter.

 

As for the salary dump, I still say Betts was included to get rid of Price -- because there was no other way anyone one else was going to take him off our hands without the greatest pot-sweetener in history. The owners can blab all they want about "the value" we got back, but they knew they weren't going to pay Mookie, and were glad to get even a bag of BP balls in return.

[notin]

He'd get suspended for the chemistry, but only for using after the MLB banned it. Like PED users or video users...

 

I always love when some writers say Bonds and Clemens should be in the Hall, since they were already great before they juiced. Ya, and Son of Sam served in the US Army before he started shooting teenagers in parked cars (that's the best notin analogy I can come up with tonight).

 

Bonds, Clemens and Rose should be in the Hall, especially if Gaylord Perry is allowed in. Why did we develop this sudden moral high ground regarding what exhibits qualify for what is essentially a historical museum?

[notin]

I'm with you on that one; watching Mookie's salary drive lead Boston back into contention is what I campaigned for all winter.

 

As for the salary dump, I still say Betts was included to get rid of Price -- because there was no other way anyone one else was going to take him off our hands without the greatest pot-sweetener in history. The owners can blab all they want about "the value" we got back, but they knew they weren't going to pay Mookie, and were glad to get even a bag of BP balls in return.

 

 

Not so sure it was about not paying Mookie as much as it was about not paying MLB 95% of the overage on the uppermost limit, and not positioning themselves to reduce that number any time soon without a prolonged period of sucking. It’s not like Henry has a problem paying salaries; he’s probably outspent all the other owners over the past few seasons.

 

The Sox offense is worse. But that was where they excelled anyway. Their pitching is worse and still needs help. It has gotten to the point I find myself hoping this Wil Myers deal happens.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bonds, Clemens and Rose should be in the Hall, especially if Gaylord Perry is allowed in. Why did we develop this sudden moral high ground regarding what exhibits qualify for what is essentially a historical museum?

 

Ha, my point has always been that players of every era will always do whatever they can to get an edge, so "let them all in", as in all the best of each era -- and not just Bonds and Clemens... (wait, there are already bronzed contemporaries who were freaks of nature, like 45-year-olds throwing no-hitters or skinny third basemen who got really thick and played thousands of games in a row).

 

I dunno about Rose, though. What would the MLB's sponsors say... like freakin' Draft Kings??????

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Not so sure it was about not paying Mookie as much as it was about not paying MLB 95% of the overage on the uppermost limit, and not positioning themselves to reduce that number any time soon without a prolonged period of sucking. It’s not like Henry has a problem paying salaries; he’s probably outspent all the other owners over the past few seasons.

 

The Sox offense is worse. But that was where they excelled anyway. Their pitching is worse and still needs help. It has gotten to the point I find myself hoping this Wil Myers deal happens.

 

I agree that was a part of it, but I never agreed they would suck being led by a future Hall of Famer. Henry can also afford the tax, and everything I see these days about the next CBA says the tax max will be restructured anyway. Plus, not only do I expect the Sox to add pitching in the next few years, I also expect some of the arms they already invested in to start earning their contracts. Beginning this season...

 

But I have to confess I haven't been able to stomach watching any Mookie-in-blue videos; not in interviews, not in practices, not in games... so far. I'll probably watch him in the All-Star Game (in LA) and the postseason.

[notin]

Ha, my point has always been that players of every era will always do whatever they can to get an edge, so "let them all in", as in all the best of each era -- and not just Bonds and Clemens... (wait, there are already bronzed contemporaries who were freaks of nature, like 45-year-olds throwing no-hitters or skinny third basemen who got really thick and played thousands of games in a row).

 

I dunno about Rose, though. What would the MLB's sponsors say... like freakin' Draft Kings??????

 

I think the steroid issue got so derailed. It started off as this method of killing the message that younger players need to use steroids as their only chance of making MLB, but it turned into nothing more than another criterion for excluding players from the Hall.

 

Let them all in. I have said it before and I actually like the idea on some levels. The Hall is a historical museum and the purpose of historical museums is to preserve history, not to censor it. Let all the qualified steroid users (the ones kept out solely for steroid usage or suspected steroid usage) in the Hall and give them their own wing. Call it the Ken Caminiti Wing and place a plaque at the entrance saying "Dedicated to the Memory of Ken Caminiti. MVP at 33. Dead at 41." That way, the baseball history is preserved AND the message about the dangers steroid usage is prominently displayed.

 

And get Rose in the Hall. His exclusion is a joke. Just don't ever let him manage or be employed by any MLB team ever in any capacity. His ban is from Major League Baseball, but the Hall of Fame is actually not affiliated with MLB. Am I the only one who thinks it's incredibly stupid he is allowed to do postseason commentary (which makes him involved with MLB) but not allowed in Cooperstown?

[jung]

Tony Clark (MLBPA) commenting that there is no reason for Mookie not to still be in Boston and if the CBT was the genesis of this trade then we really need to look at our CBA.

 

I actually think that comment makes some sense.