Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[Bellhorn04]

Of course he has spent money. But right now, he traded a superstar in his prime for a steep discount for non-baseball reasons. And the move can, and should be criticized on that front. Similarly, the sudden whiplash need to cut payroll after greenlighting big money extensions just months earlier deserves criticism.

 

Mookie Betts was the team's best hope to replenish some of its high ceiling organizational depth, especially in pitching. This trade way did not do that. Considering the $$ they ask of fans - it's unseemly at best.

 

You're always pointing out the high ticket prices. But no one is forced to pay them.

 

And the Red Sox are not the #1 team in revenues. They are #3 behind the Yankees and Dodgers. But they outspent those teams the last two years.

 

No Red Sox fan should have a beef with Henry's spending on the team.

[a700hitter]

Tickets must be going like hotcakes today.

[notin]

Can you build a better one around a suspected rapist with little MLB experience and a history of injury?

 

And who is that? Graterol?

[notin]

Some work around the edges would have been necessary, but the core team from 2018 is still there and in some ways it would have been better.

 

In some ways, yes. Devers is the most obvious example.

 

But I am not as confident in the Price/Sale rotation front as I was in 2017.

 

And even then, if 2020 does not pan ut and the Sox win 85 games again, then what? The team is in even worse shape overall.

 

The Sox last year did not make the post-season for one big reason - pitching. Their offense was the best in MLB to not make the post-season, if you go by fWAR or by Runs Scored. They could afford to let some offense go in order to get some pitching.

 

Graterol on his own isn't going to make up that difference. But he can make up part of it, and the $20mill tax space the Sox have can make up another part of it. It won't be easy, but it is not impossible...

[sk7326]

You're always pointing out the high ticket prices. But no one is forced to pay them.

 

And the Red Sox are not the #1 team in revenues. They are #3 behind the Yankees and Dodgers. But they outspent those teams the last two years.

 

No Red Sox fan should have a beef with Henry's spending on the team.

 

The Red Sox took their best baseball trade chip and traded it for suboptimal return strictly to save their owner some money. That warrants criticism on its own, and when it is a high revenue team that can afford to make baseball moves for baseball reasons, it really smells. It is possible to both be okay with how ownership has spent in the past while criticizing the decisions now. There have been very few moves Henry has made in his tenure which have been bad faith - this is one.

 

Second, even IF we accept the sympathetic framing ... that the Red Sox have actual affordability problems and payroll needed to be reduced for reasons, this was a problem apparent entering the 2019 season and yet management proceeded making multiple dicey spending choices which boxed them in here to feeling like they had to trade their best player without harming the Dodgers internal prospect rankings.

[jung]

Some work around the edges would have been necessary, but the core team from 2018 is still there and in some ways it would have been better.

 

When the teams you have to work deals with know that you have NOTHING down on the farm, they bend you over the table even for middling players because they know you have nobody that can come up and fill out an MLB uni for the league minimum.

 

Do you really think we did not get abused even in this salary dump? I have hope for the relief pitcher because he throws heat....I have hope for him if his arm does not fall off and if he does not blow up to 300 lbs. Verdugo???? I could give a rats behind about Verdugo.

 

You cannot allow your farm to fall to this level of disrepair and expect the rest of MLB to take you seriously and nobody cares if your organization is named the Boston Red Sox.

[a700hitter]

In some ways, yes. Devers is the most obvious example.

 

But I am not as confident in the Price/Sale rotation front as I was in 2017.

 

And even then, if 2020 does not pan ut and the Sox win 85 games again, then what? The team is in even worse shape overall.

 

The Sox last year did not make the post-season for one big reason - pitching. Their offense was the best in MLB to not make the post-season, if you go by fWAR or by Runs Scored. They could afford to let some offense go in order to get some pitching.

 

Graterol on his own isn't going to make up that difference. But he can make up part of it, and the $20mill tax space the Sox have can make up another part of it. It won't be easy, but it is not impossible...

I was more confident of Price and Sale rebounding than I am of the prospects for the team after this trade. They just waved the white flag of surrender before playing a single game.

[mvp 78]

The Sox would have had about $140million tied up over the next 3 seasons in Betts, Bogaerts, Price, Sale, and Eovaldi. If they maintain the lofty $240mill payroll, unlikely as that is, that leaves $100million to spend on 35 other players, or $2.85 million per player. Safely assuming 14 of those players make the league minimum on the 40 man roster, accounting for $7.6 million, that leaves $92.6million for 21 other players, who now make $4.4mill each. And obviously, with Benintendi and ERod on the roster making higher than that, the Sox have less than $4.4mill per player to spend. Obviously, you can spend more per player for every additional minimum wager on the parent club, but a $4.4mill average means you get players like Eric Sogard and Travis Shaw.

 

Can you build a winning team all those Shaws and Sogards around the core?

Is Red Sox Nation no longer in mourning over losing Shaw?

[notin]

Is Red Sox Nation no longer in mourning over losing Shaw?

 

Only inasmuch as all we got for him was a pitcher who never got off the DL...

[notin]

I was more confident of Price and Sale rebounding than I am of the prospects for the team after this trade. They just waved the white flag of surrender before playing a single game.

 

Even then, they had a steep hill to climb. They were 18 games behind the Yankees pre-Cole...

[a700hitter]

Even then, they had a steep hill to climb. They were 18 games behind the Yankees pre-Cole...

They dug themselves a March/April hole that couldn't be overcome. We wouldn't have had to win the Division, just a Wild Card. I think they would have had an excellent chance of getting a Wild Card spot.

[sk7326]

I was more confident of Price and Sale rebounding than I am of the prospects for the team after this trade. They just waved the white flag of surrender before playing a single game.

 

It is hard to find a case of a player this good this young getting moved - let alone in a salary dump.

[sk7326]

The Sox would have had about $140million tied up over the next 3 seasons in Betts, Bogaerts, Price, Sale, and Eovaldi. If they maintain the lofty $240mill payroll, unlikely as that is, that leaves $100million to spend on 35 other players, or $2.85 million per player. Safely assuming 14 of those players make the league minimum on the 40 man roster, accounting for $7.6 million, that leaves $92.6million for 21 other players, who now make $4.4mill each. And obviously, with Benintendi and ERod on the roster making higher than that, the Sox have less than $4.4mill per player to spend. Obviously, you can spend more per player for every additional minimum wager on the parent club, but a $4.4mill average means you get players like Eric Sogard and Travis Shaw.

 

Can you build a winning team all those Shaws and Sogards around the core?

 

Did MLB institute a hard cap while I was asleep?

[mvp 78]

Did MLB institute a hard cap while I was asleep?

 

It's not so much a hard cap. It's more like saving John Henry from over spending. He just can't help himself as long as it is players outside the organization!!!

[Monster24]

Getting under the luxury tax is not on par with out and out slashing payroll.

[a700hitter]

It is hard to find a case of a player this good this young getting moved - let alone in a salary dump.

I am having trouble thinking of a comparable situation.

 

And not that it matters to the budget bean counters, but Mookie was a huge fan favorite especially for little kids -- future ticket buyers. Good move by management. If Mookie left in a year for an ungodly contract, the Owners could say that they tried their best. In this case, they have nowhere to hide. They sent away a fan favorite in his prime.

[notin]

It is hard to find a case of a player this good this young getting moved - let alone in a salary dump.

 

Edwin Diaz?

[jung]

It's not so much a hard cap. It's more like saving John Henry from over spending. He just can't help himself as long as it is players outside the organization!!!

 

Yea well John screwed himself for 5 years on Sale that start this year and Sale was already inside the organization. They got screwed overpaying Eovaldi by at least $3M per year and he was already a part of the Sox organization when they paid him.

[sk7326]

Getting under the luxury tax is not on par with out and out slashing payroll.

 

When we are talking about dealing a player of Betts' age and quality (which basically never happens) - there is no real difference. There is no good reason to accept a bad baseball trade for an asset that good - if you believe you should be trading him at all. You have cited a bad reason though.

[mvp 78]

Yea well John screwed himself for 5 years on Sale that start this year and Sale was already inside the organization. They got screwed overpaying Eovaldi by at least $3M per year and he was already a part of the Sox organization when they paid him.

 

Wow. Overpay by 3M!!!!!! Unbelievable.

[sk7326]

Edwin Diaz?

 

As we all know, the league rankings of players goes Trout-Edwin Diaz-everyone else.

[mvp 78]

Getting under the luxury tax is not on par with out and out slashing payroll.

 

Sure it is. It’s just a matter of amounts.

[Slasher9]

The Red Sox took their best baseball trade chip and traded it for suboptimal return strictly to save their owner some money. That warrants criticism on its own, and when it is a high revenue team that can afford to make baseball moves for baseball reasons, it really smells. It is possible to both be okay with how ownership has spent in the past while criticizing the decisions now. There have been very few moves Henry has made in his tenure which have been bad faith - this is one.

 

Second, even IF we accept the sympathetic framing ... that the Red Sox have actual affordability problems and payroll needed to be reduced for reasons, this was a problem apparent entering the 2019 season and yet management proceeded making multiple dicey spending choices which boxed them in here to feeling like they had to trade their best player without harming the Dodgers internal prospect rankings.

 

none of this should be a surprise to you tho. many of us have been saying this was going to happen for years.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Slasher9]

Mookie was a huge fan favorite especially for little kids -- future ticket buyers.

 

this is why i believe JH will outbid everyone next offseason. but he absolutely had to reset the LT in order to do it.

[mvp 78]

this is why i believe JH will outbid everyone next offseason. but he absolutely had to reset the LT in order to do it.

 

You got... no chance.... NO CHANCE IN HELL...

[Jasonbay44]

I am having trouble thinking of a comparable situation.

 

And not that it matters to the budget bean counters, but Mookie was a huge fan favorite especially for little kids -- future ticket buyers. Good move by management. If Mookie left in a year for an ungodly contract, the Owners could say that they tried their best. In this case, they have nowhere to hide. They sent away a fan favorite in his prime.

 

I was going to gym earlier and was looking for an old shirt to put on and saw my Mookie Betts player shirt that I bought when he was first called up, so old that I had to order one of those "custom shirts" and put in "Betts 50" myself. I'm pretty sure that's one of the fastest Ive ever fallen in love with a player. I really can't believe he's actually not going to be playing in Boston next year. He was such a likable player and easy to root for.. and not to mention a superstar on and off the field.

[sk7326]

none of this should be a surprise to you tho. many of us have been saying this was going to happen for years.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Of course I should be surprised - the team is well run for the most part. But when ownership greenlighted the Sale extension, we knew this reckoning was very possible. I advocated last offseason the team should have been sniffing around for offers for Bogaerts - again, assuming that they were concerned about future payroll (which would not make them unique - and is going to be the main battlefield for the next CBA, but does not mean that I have to accep the premise). The team had a lack of organizational pitching depth - and so they took their best trade asset and ended up not fixing it in a meaningful way. The kid they got COULD get lucky and be good, but really we're looking at Betts being dealt for a solid starting corner OF and a likely solid reliever.

[sk7326]

I am having trouble thinking of a comparable situation.

 

And not that it matters to the budget bean counters, but Mookie was a huge fan favorite especially for little kids -- future ticket buyers. Good move by management. If Mookie left in a year for an ungodly contract, the Owners could say that they tried their best. In this case, they have nowhere to hide. They sent away a fan favorite in his prime.

 

It reminds me of the time the Yankees dealt Derek Jeter for middle relief help.

[Jasonbay44]

No matter how we slice it, IMO, Mookie should've been priority #1 over anyone else on this roster. I love Xander and Sale, but Mookie should've been prioritized first.

[Slasher9]

You got... no chance.... NO CHANCE IN HELL...