Cora fired

[notin]

Manfred seems to have already answered that question.

 

But he also outed Beltran as a cheater and liar.

 

So he's f***ed anyway.

 

 

If Beltran does get fired, he will have done so without ever managing an MLB game. How long is that list?

[Bellhorn04]

And isn't Manfred now obliged to provide the names of all the other players who participated in the sign stealing, so nobody ever hires them as managers?

[notin]

And isn't Manfred now obliged to provide the names of all the other players who participated in the sign stealing, so nobody ever hires them as managers?

 

Isn’t that tantamount to blackballing?

[Station 13]

The Mets will fire Beltran. They just can't sit idly after all the his former teammates been ousted.

[Carpin]

The Mets will fire Beltran. They just can't sit idly after all the his former teammates been ousted.

 

You don't know the Mets

[Station 13]

You don't know the Mets

 

It would look really bad when he is being introduce at opening day.

[Carpin]

It would look really bad when he is being introduce at opening day.

 

I know, but that organization might be the worst in MLB, strange things happen there; I'd be very surprised if they let him go before the start of the season

[jad]

Isn’t that tantamount to blackballing?

 

Yes, but I think once the extent of this is known (well, it's known; it's just not admitted), the scapegoating may stop. If I were an owner, I'd hire guys like Hinch and Cora the instant I could.

[Tedballgame]

Red Sox lost in the playoffs in 2017 to the Astros. Wow. They got cheated out of a World Series! Now I know how Skankee fans feel. If only the Astros hadn't stole signs in 2017 the Red Sox would have won the World Series.

[Elktonnick]

Yes, but I think once the extent of this is known (well, it's known; it's just not admitted), the scapegoating may stop. If I were an owner, I'd hire guys like Hinch and Cora the instant I could.

Hunch is less problematic but Cora is going to have a big target on his back for years to come assuming he is not banned which is an assumption I wouldn't make right now.

[jung]

You don't know the Mets

 

Honestly, as a born and bred tri-stater I had to laugh cynically at your post, not at you but at the reality of the Mets. I don't necessarily disagree. But I don't think even the Mets will touch this one.

 

The truth of it is that those that have been exposed already will be thrown directly under the bus by the League and Ownership in their desire to protect themselves. They won't go after players because they need players. Remember Beltan will be called on the carpet for his role as "special assistant" not necessarily as a player.

 

Time for the owners to crush Manfred like the insect that he is. But they won't. Time for the league itself to take responsibility for its broad reaching implementation of technology and video with no earthly idea what they were doing. Honestly can no longer even devise the rational for what MLB has acquiesced to and even promoted in this regard. Technology is an overlay onto the game. IT IS NOT THE GAME. Yet they have subjugated the game to this nonsense even mutated it in some ways. Add progressive changes making for more of a rocket ship baseball to the point where just touching any part of the barrel of the bat to the thing sends it over the fence TO THE OPPOSITE FIELD no less and this game is a mess.

[Carpin]

Honestly, as a born and bred tri-stater I had to laugh cynically at your post, not at you but at the reality of the Mets. I don't necessarily disagree. But I don't think even the Mets will touch this one.

 

The truth of it is that those that have been exposed already will be thrown directly under the bus by the League and Ownership in their desire to protect themselves. They won't go after players because they need players. Remember Beltan will be called on the carpet for his role as "special assistant" not necessarily as a player.

 

Time for the owners to crush Manfred like the insect that he is. But they won't. Time for the league itself to take responsibility for its broad reaching implementation of technology and video with no earthly idea what they were doing. Honestly can no longer even devise the rational for what MLB has acquiesced to and even promoted in this regard. Technology is an overlay onto the game. IT IS NOT THE GAME. Yet they have subjugated the game to this nonsense even mutated it in some ways. Add progressive changes making for more of a rocket ship baseball to the point where just touching any part of the barrel of the bat to the thing sends it over the fence TO THE OPPOSITE FIELD no less and this game is a mess.

 

I understand your point, most organizations will cut ties with Beltran, I have my doubts that the Mets will.

 

Talking about technology, I don't really like the implementation of a lot of it, but it would be wrong not to recognize the the world has changed, most things in regular life are controlled by technology now, something needs to be done; the league needs to jump ahead of this and incorporate new things to some degree, how many? I don't know; somebody suggested the use of headsets between manager (or pitching coach), pitcher and catcher. It looks like a good starting point.

[Slasher9]

I have not watched Mandalorian. Is baby Yoda the son of Yoda, or is he Yoda as a child?

 

he def not Yoda as a child as the timeline for this series takes place after yoda is already dedded. whether or not he is the offspring of yoda is still to be answered.

[harmony]

Time for the owners to crush Manfred like the insect that he is. But they won't. Time for the league itself to take responsibility for its broad reaching implementation of technology and video with no earthly idea what they were doing. Honestly can no longer even devise the rational for what MLB has acquiesced to and even promoted in this regard. Technology is an overlay onto the game. IT IS NOT THE GAME. Yet they have subjugated the game to this nonsense even mutated it in some ways. Add progressive changes making for more of a rocket ship baseball to the point where just touching any part of the barrel of the bat to the thing sends it over the fence TO THE OPPOSITE FIELD no less and this game is a mess.

What if Rob Manfred and the MLB investigation find no wrongdoing by the 2018 Red Sox?

 

Is it still "time to crush Manfred like the insect that he is"?

[Elktonnick]

What if Rob Manfred and the MLB investigation find no wrongdoing by the 2018 Red Sox?

 

Is it still "time to crush Manfred like the insect that he is"?

You are still in denial. Rosenthal's most recent piece in the Athletic seems to indicate that Red Sox cheating may have been more extensive than previously thought possibly to include the post season. I think the outstanding questions are who else besides Cora and DD will be named and sanctioned and what did ownership and Kennedy know and when did they know it.

[notin]

Honestly, as a born and bred tri-stater I had to laugh cynically at your post, not at you but at the reality of the Mets. I don't necessarily disagree. But I don't think even the Mets will touch this one.

 

The truth of it is that those that have been exposed already will be thrown directly under the bus by the League and Ownership in their desire to protect themselves. They won't go after players because they need players. Remember Beltan will be called on the carpet for his role as "special assistant" not necessarily as a player.

 

Time for the owners to crush Manfred like the insect that he is. But they won't. Time for the league itself to take responsibility for its broad reaching implementation of technology and video with no earthly idea what they were doing. Honestly can no longer even devise the rational for what MLB has acquiesced to and even promoted in this regard. Technology is an overlay onto the game. IT IS NOT THE GAME. Yet they have subjugated the game to this nonsense even mutated it in some ways. Add progressive changes making for more of a rocket ship baseball to the point where just touching any part of the barrel of the bat to the thing sends it over the fence TO THE OPPOSITE FIELD no less and this game is a mess.

 

How are you villifying Manfred here? That's like deciding your neighborhood has too many fires, so you get rid of the fire department...

[DontCallMeUncleRico]

what made him think this was a good idea? lol wow

[jung]

I understand your point, most organizations will cut ties with Beltran, I have my doubts that the Mets will.

 

Talking about technology, I don't really like the implementation of a lot of it, but it would be wrong not to recognize the the world has changed, most things in regular life are controlled by technology now, something needs to be done; the league needs to jump ahead of this and incorporate new things to some degree, how many? I don't know; somebody suggested the use of headsets between manager (or pitching coach), pitcher and catcher. It looks like a good starting point.

 

Well the problem with technology as implemented in MLB is that it simply overemphasizes data over player performance to such a degree that it now tries to bend player performance and we end up with crap like Cash pulling his best starting pitcher in a game not because the guy had no record of getting out of early stressful innings or any other reason than that some database geek told him to do so. That happen every single game in some way shape or form.

 

The game is a game of athletic excellence by human beings for other human beings to enjoy on that basis. Its not an MIT Computer Sciences project.

 

We have cheating scams now attributable to the use of replay devices and technology when in fact replay is an uproarious FAILURE in MLB. It is a joke as it is too broadly implemented with no benefit derived and much boredom for fans. Take all the replay crap out of the hands of the teams. Put it in the hands of MLB and only consider questionable catches, HR's and plays at the plate. THATS IT. Take this stupid nonsense of watching the Manager hold up his hand while he ponders a challenge and allow them go argue calls with the field umps again.

Edited January 15, 2020 by jung

[jung]

How are you villifying Manfred here? That's like deciding your neighborhood has too many fires, so you get rid of the fire department...

 

 

You have got to be kidding. Manfred did nothing till reporters wrote their story which is what pushed this whole process. MLB for its part, head in the sand burying it under the carpet. Then the league puts out its report burying Cora, and castigating Hinch and the GM all in an effort to cut off responsibility before getting to ownership. What does ownership do, immediately fires Hinch and the GM making the frame complete.

 

"Oh not us, not the league and not ownership. We know nothing.....nothing. Pure as the driven slush we are". One of the best Sgt Schultz routines I have seen in awhile.

[notin]

You have got to be kidding. Manfred did nothing till reporters wrote their story which is what pushed this whole process. MLB for its part, head in the sand burying it under the carpet. Then the league puts out its report burying Cora, and castigating Hinch and the GM all in an effort to cut off responsibility before getting to ownership. What does ownership do, immediately fires Hinch and the GM making the frame complete.

 

"Oh not us, not the league and not ownership. We know nothing.....nothing. Pure as the driven slush we are". One of the best Sgt Schultz routines I have seen in awhile.

 

We have no idea when Manfred knew and when he started his investigation, or that he tried to bury the story.

 

And even if your version is the truth, how does that differ from any other MLB scandal, starting with the Black Sox, through the Pittsburgh Drug Trials and right up to PED's?

[Bellhorn04]

We have no idea when Manfred knew and when he started his investigation, or that he tried to bury the story.

 

And even if your version is the truth, how does that differ from any other MLB scandal, starting with the Black Sox, through the Pittsburgh Drug Trials and right up to PED's?

 

Selig was castigated for 'looking the other way' on PED's for so long. Manfred could end up being regarded similarly. The juiced baseballs don't do much for his credibility.

[jung]

We have no idea when Manfred knew and when he started his investigation, or that he tried to bury the story.

 

And even if your version is the truth, how does that differ from any other MLB scandal, starting with the Black Sox, through the Pittsburgh Drug Trials and right up to PED's?

 

Just trying to insulate ownership is BURYING THE STORY. That is enough to tell us where Manfred is trying to go.

[harmony]

You are still in denial. Rosenthal's most recent piece in the Athletic seems to indicate that Red Sox cheating may have been more extensive than previously thought possibly to include the post season. I think the outstanding questions are who else besides Cora and DD will be named and sanctioned and what did ownership and Kennedy know and when did they know it.

No denial here ... just waiting for the results of the investigation.

[jad]

You have got to be kidding. Manfred did nothing till reporters wrote their story which is what pushed this whole process. MLB for its part, head in the sand burying it under the carpet. Then the league puts out its report burying Cora, and castigating Hinch and the GM all in an effort to cut off responsibility before getting to ownership. What does ownership do, immediately fires Hinch and the GM making the frame complete.

 

"Oh not us, not the league and not ownership. We know nothing.....nothing. Pure as the driven slush we are". One of the best Sgt Schultz routines I have seen in awhile.

 

Shocked that I agree almost completely with this. MLB would have done well to work to keep guys like Hinch and Cora around.

[notin]

Selig was castigated for 'looking the other way' on PED's for so long. Manfred could end up being regarded similarly. The juiced baseballs don't do much for his credibility.

 

I would think the juiced baseballs are a bigger story and blackmark on his regime.

[notin]

Just trying to insulate ownership is BURYING THE STORY. That is enough to tell us where Manfred is trying to go.

 

Exactly how has he tried to bury the story? As far as any of us know, this story isn't that old. Fiers only started talking 2 months ago...

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Kennedy: "The decision was related exclusively to the incidents that took place in Houston."

[jung]

Exactly how has he tried to bury the story? As far as any of us know, this story isn't that old. Fiers only started talking 2 months ago...

 

So you have what amounts to a whole team in Houston with a system engineered by Cora engaged in a year long if not longer scam to use electronics and in game, real time video to steal signs (cheat) and nobody in upper management at Houston knew? Putting your head in the sand IS waiting for somebody to start talking. Then you have the report itself which just splays Cora and goes on to more than suggest that Hinch's actions proved to players that "upper management" was acquiescent which is what opened the door to nailing Hinch and the GM by Ownership. Do you really thing that phrasing in the report was coincidental or simply a straight up analysis of evidence? THAT WAS AN OPINION. Ownership then takes an offered opinion and immediately fires Hinch and the GM effectively using that opinion in the report as the hammer. BULL s***!

 

Remember Hinch in anger took a baseball bat to the monitors twice during the course of the 2017 season. Do you really think that suggested to the players support for this mess from Hinch?

Edited January 15, 2020 by jung

[Larry33]

This was to be expected anyone would though otherwise was greatly mistaken basically the Astros didn't leave much choice in the matter once they announced the dismissal of both the GM and manger Cora fate was sealed. The Red Sox had no other choice unless they wanted to be the promoters of cheating to win is acceptable. Since Cora was identified as the culprit designer and implementer of the cheat sign stealing system using the video room back in Houston in their WS Championship win. What else could be expected from him when he became skipper of the Red Sox same cheat system same results MLB had to follow the trail and Cora being the common denominator in both franchises. The game should be played on the field like it was meant to be never mind using all these electronic devices.

 

Sure other teams are guilty of doing the same but none had the success of these 2 teams with the same guy in the center of the cheating accusations.

 

The sad part of the whole thing is that even though JBJ knew exactly what they were going to throw he still couldn't hit the dam ball.

[jung]

I am going to make this point again just because it needs to be understood.

 

Organic sign stealing in baseball IS NOT EVEN CHEATING. Once you bring electronics and video into the picture using real time in game video whether with dedicated cameras or simply using the STUPID replay room and dugout monitors you have crossed the line and are 90% as dirty as it gets. It hardly matters after that if you have entrusted the output from all that effort to a runner on second base who's real responsibility is to get home from scoring position or have some elaborate covert or less than elaborate (knock on a trash can) overt method for communicating the output.

 

Frankly, I don't think entrusting that output which involves a quite detailed effort to a runner on second base makes a hill of beans of sense to me. If I had to guess, a more covert method of communicating the output was used. Even the output is fairly detailed in that you have got to nail the sequencing as well as the signs and the runner on second has to absorb that AND communicate it to the hitter.

 

Ironically it would appear possible that the biggest dif between a system using a dedicated camera system v the replay video room feed is that a team may have been able to continue post season because they were using a dedicated camera system. Using the replay video room feed does not work post season because its my understanding that the league puts league officials in those video rooms for the post season.