Bloom move your asssssss

[moonslav59]

This December has seen more activity than last year but not for us.

 

I think teams looked to fill their needs through free agency, and those that lost out will now look to trades, and that's what we have been waiting for- desperate GMs settling on plan B's and C's.

 

I had hoped we'd add a few bargain FAs with the money saved that creates some lux tax budget space, but the well is quickly drying up.

 

I still think we will see a lot of action before the winter is over. BTW, today is the first day of winter!

[jacksonianmarch]

If you don't add to an 84 win team, you aren't going to win anything. If you subtract from an 84 win team, then you're likely not going to win anything. The fans aren't fools. With the Celtics, Bruins and Pats all in championship form, sox fans aren't going to spend their savings on a team that is likely in a down phase

[Elktonnick]

If you don't add to an 84 win team, you aren't going to win anything. If you subtract from an 84 win team, then you're likely not going to win anything. The fans aren't fools. With the Celtics, Bruins and Pats all in championship form, sox fans aren't going to spend their savings on a team that is likely in a down phase

 

That is why I think this so called reset strategy economically unwise for the both short and long term.

[harmony]

If the Red Sox were not concerned about exceeding the luxury tax threshold for the third straight year, you'd think the Sox would have been more aggressive so far in an attempt to improve on an 84-win team that finished 12 games back of the final Wild Card slot. Their sights would be set higher than Jose Peraza, Martin Perez, Chris Mazza and a slew of minor leaguers.

 

Or not.

[Elktonnick]

If the Red Sox were not concerned about exceeding the luxury tax threshold for the third straight year, you'd think the Sox would have been more aggressive so far in an attempt to improve on an 84-win team that finished 12 games back of the final Wild Card slot. Their sights would be set higher than Jose Peraza, Martin Perez, Chris Mazza and a slew of minor leaguers.

 

Or not.

 

The are, as I post this, above the LT .

[jacksonianmarch]

This December has seen more activity than last year but not for us.

 

I think teams looked to fill their needs through free agency, and those that lost out will now look to trades, and that's what we have been waiting for- desperate GMs settling on plan B's and C's.

 

I had hoped we'd add a few bargain FAs with the money saved that creates some lux tax budget space, but the well is quickly drying up.

 

I still think we will see a lot of action before the winter is over. BTW, today is the first day of winter!

 

I am still perplexed as to the choices of guys to spend on. Peraza looks like a guy they could have gotten for half his salary. They spent $2 mil more on Perez than they could have had for Gio, who was better

[moonslav59]

I am still perplexed as to the choices of guys to spend on. Peraza looks like a guy they could have gotten for half his salary. They spent $2 mil more on Perez than they could have had for Gio, who was better

 

I felt the same way about Chris Young, Moreland, Pearce and other low level FAs we've signed in the past.

 

It's one thing to take a chance on an unsung FA, but paying significantly more than anybody expected is questionable, at best.

[jacksonianmarch]

I felt the same way about Chris Young, Moreland, Pearce and other low level FAs we've signed in the past.

 

It's one thing to take a chance on an unsung FA, but paying significantly more than anybody expected is questionable, at best.

 

Exactly. I am surprised Perez got a guaranteed deal, to be honest with you. His injury history and recent performance looked like a MiLB offer with a $2-$3 mil kicker if he made the final roster

[jacksonianmarch]

Now here is a name that just signed that made too much sense for the Sox.

 

The Tigers just signed Jonathan Schoop for $6.1 mil. Schoop was a shade below average defensively, yet OPS’s near .780 and hit 23 bombs as a righty power bat. He was the cost of two Jose Peraza’s.

 

As it’s trending now, the Sox are likely to start the year with Peraza as the starting 2b. My bet is they push Dalbec to AAA and at least advance his clock by a year before co side ring bringing him up and moving him to 1b or 2b with Chavis moving the other way. But having a $3 mil utility player who cannot hit doesn’t create an impediment. Having a guy who can knock 25 balls out of the park at 2b and handle the position reasonably well sounds like a better alternative

[moonslav59]

Now here is a name that just signed that made too much sense for the Sox.

 

The Tigers just signed Jonathan Schoop for $6.1 mil. Schoop was a shade below average defensively, yet OPS’s near .780 and hit 23 bombs as a righty power bat. He was the cost of two Jose Peraza’s.

 

As it’s trending now, the Sox are likely to start the year with Peraza as the starting 2b. My bet is they push Dalbec to AAA and at least advance his clock by a year before co side ring bringing him up and moving him to 1b or 2b with Chavis moving the other way. But having a $3 mil utility player who cannot hit doesn’t create an impediment. Having a guy who can knock 25 balls out of the park at 2b and handle the position reasonably well sounds like a better alternative

 

We needed pitching more than 2B, so I can see why we spent more there.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If you don't add to an 84 win team, you aren't going to win anything. If you subtract from an 84 win team, then you're likely not going to win anything.

 

Not all additions that make a difference are big name signings. Take, for example, another recent 84-win team that improved to 91 wins and back into contention: in the winter they signed a former NL batting champ to DH, and he only hit .231; in the summer they traded for a 27-year old starter who had finished third in the Cy Young two years before... and he went 4-7 (and they couldn't wait to get rid of him).

 

"Luckily", that club got record-breaking production from a rookie outfielder, and had another young starter blossom into an ace. Now I'm not saying the Red Sox have an Aaron Judge or Luis Severino ready to step forward, but it wouldn't be the biggest surprise in hardball history if a young guy like Benintendi or Chavis developed into an All-Star at the same time Darwinzon H. progressed into a stud pitcher.

 

Teams continue to modify rosters in ways they think will help. I'm still not ready to say that the clubs that win because of their moves are lucky or smart, or even that the ones that lose are unlucky or dumb. If Bloom and co. keep stockpiling relatively young retreads and a few of them contribute, it's because it was part of the plan.

[moonslav59]

Not all additions that make a difference are big name signings. Take, for example, another recent 84-win team that improved to 91 wins and back into contention: in the winter they signed a former NL batting champ to DH, and he only hit .231; in the summer they traded for a 27-year old starter who had finished third in the Cy Young two years before... and he went 4-7 (and they couldn't wait to get rid of him).

 

"Luckily", that club got record-breaking production from a rookie outfielder, and had another young starter blossom into an ace. Now I'm not saying the Red Sox have an Aaron Judge or Luis Severino ready to step forward, but it wouldn't be the biggest surprise in hardball history if a young guy like Benintendi or Chavis developed into an All-Star at the same time Darwinzon H. progressed into a stud pitcher.

 

Teams continue to modify rosters in ways they think will help. I'm still not ready to say that the clubs that win because of their moves are lucky or smart, or even that the ones that lose are unlucky or dumb. If Bloom and co. keep stockpiling relatively young retreads and a few of them contribute, it's because it was part of the plan.

 

Beni, maybe- Chavis would be shocking.

 

For us to seriously compete, a more likely route would be for Betts & JD to repeat 2018 not 2019, and for our starters to be healthy. That may seem like a lot, but it's not as long a shot as Chavis even finishing top 10 or 20 in the MVP vote.

 

I've not given up on 2020, and even if I do, I've been surprised before.

 

I didn't think we'd win in 2013.

 

What makes 2020 difficult is the budget needs and the near certain fact that some big named player(s) won't be here in 2020. I won't blame Bloom for dealing away someone, since he's being pushed to do so. I trust he will get the best deal he can, even if we don't like it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Chavis was just an example of guy who's young enough to make an adjustment, hit 20 bombs by July and maybe get selected to an AS roster... Judge never hit more than 20 in a minor league season and suddenly cranked 52 as a rookie.

 

I don't feel as optimistic as I am realistic about the Sox current roster as being certainly capable -- as is -- to win 90+ games. The star players are all still young and have World Series bling, I'm not worried about second base in the modern MLB game (and apparently, neither is the FO), and Sale and Eovaldi both threw close to 100 mph in the second half last year. The season will swing -- like every other team's -- on pitching depth and emerging arms... and intuition tells me Bloom isn't even close to completing his staff.

 

Meanwhile, posters can keep suggesting depressing trade proposals while we wait out the cold stove season, but I just don't see the Red Sox dealing any fan favorites for pennies on the dollar.

[moonslav59]

Chavis was just an example of guy who's young enough to make an adjustment, hit 20 bombs by July and maybe get selected to an AS roster... Judge never hit more than 20 in a minor league season and suddenly cranked 52 as a rookie.

 

I don't feel as optimistic as I am realistic about the Sox current roster as being certainly capable -- as is -- to win 90+ games. The star players are all still young and have World Series bling, I'm not worried about second base in the modern MLB game (and apparently, neither is the FO), and Sale and Eovaldi both threw close to 100 mph in the second half last year. The season will swing -- like every other team's -- on pitching depth and emerging arms... and intuition tells me Bloom isn't even close to completing his staff.

 

Meanwhile, posters can keep suggesting depressing trade proposals while we wait out the cold stove season, but I just don't see the Red Sox dealing any fan favorites for pennies on the dollar.

 

Well, Price is no "fan favorite," and I doubt anyone gets upset, if we trade Eovaldi.

 

I have been JBJ's biggest fan and supporter over the years, but I think it makes sense to trade him, assuming the budget mandate is for real.

 

I don't want to trade Betts or JD, but we may very well lose them after 2020 and have nothing to show for it.

 

I think the odds of us winning in 2020 are low enough to warrant looking into dealing Betts and or JD, but not for "pennies on the dollar."

 

In theory, trading Price, Eovaldi and JBJ (even assuming we pay a lot towards their salaries or take back lower salaries) would free up enough money to sign a few under-the-radar FAs and be better positioned to outbid everyone for Betts in 2021.

 

Price & JBJ for Myers & Margot.

 

Eovaldi of Odor.

 

The FA list is getting smaller.

[notin]

I am still perplexed as to the choices of guys to spend on. Peraza looks like a guy they could have gotten for half his salary. They spent $2 mil more on Perez than they could have had for Gio, who was better

 

So what re you basing that Peraza comment on?

 

And I think in the Gio vs Perez sitaution, I think Bloom mught be using different criteria. Probably a good thing, because Gio Gonzalez is about as up and down as it gets...

[Elktonnick]

Well, Price is no "fan favorite," and I doubt anyone gets upset, if we trade Eovaldi.

 

I have been JBJ's biggest fan and supporter over the years, but I think it makes sense to trade him, assuming the budget mandate is for real.

 

I don't want to trade Betts or JD, but we may very well lose them after 2020 and have nothing to show for it.

 

I think the odds of us winning in 2020 are low enough to warrant looking into dealing Betts and or JD, but not for "pennies on the dollar."

 

In theory, trading Price, Eovaldi and JBJ (even assuming we pay a lot towards their salaries or take back lower salaries) would free up enough money to sign a few under-the-radar FAs and be better positioned to outbid everyone for Betts in 2021.

 

Price & JBJ for Myers & Margot.

 

Eovaldi of Odor.

 

The FA list is getting smaller.

I agree Price is no fan favorite and many including me won't cry if he leaves. Other than him, I just do not see a major deal that sheds payroll significantly happening certainly not before the trade deadline. I also continue to believe that the so called budget crunch is being vastly overstated.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trading Price would be this fan's favorite move for a lot of reasons.

[fxkatt]

This accepted criterion of our "84 win" season is dubious. We all know that final numbers like this don't mean one hell of a lot: 1) it truly was an off season in terms of luck, injuries, poor decisions, poor base-running etc and 2) the games in Sept for all teams out of the race do not make for good evidence of a team's value.

 

The big concern for next season is not going from 84 upward, but our starting pitchers first, and relievers 2nd. And no matter what we do, this is going to be iffy, esp if we retain 3-4 of last year's staff. This is why we cannot think 84 or 92... we just don't know how our starters will perform. But if they go big, then we go plus 90, if they go missing, then we might be happy with 78.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This accepted criterion of our "84 win" season is dubious. We all know that final numbers like this don't mean one hell of a lot: 1) it truly was an off season in terms of luck, injuries, poor decisions, poor base-running etc and 2) the games in Sept for all teams out of the race do not make for good evidence of a team's value.

 

The big concern for next season is not going from 84 upward, but our starting pitchers first, and relievers 2nd. And no matter what we do, this is going to be iffy, esp if we retain 3-4 of last year's staff. This is why we cannot think 84 or 92... we just don't know how our starters will perform. But if they go big, then we go plus 90, if they go missing, then we might be happy with 78.

 

This makes me want to drink a beer. Not in the woe-is-me/I-need-a-drink way, but that it's almost nostalgic in it's rationale. I toast your logic.

 

Before there was the internet, there were only saloons. At least then we had a built-in excuse for our statements. That said, I assume a lot of what's posted here is done sober...

[moonslav59]

I agree Price is no fan favorite and many including me won't cry if he leaves. Other than him, I just do not see a major deal that sheds payroll significantly happening certainly not before the trade deadline. I also continue to believe that the so called budget crunch is being vastly overstated.

 

There's not much gray area. Either we try to reset, or we don't. If we do, we have some major work to do. I don't see the purpose of cutting salary and not resetting.

[Elktonnick]

There's not much gray area. Either we try to reset, or we don't. If we do, we have some major work to do. I don't see the purpose of cutting salary and not resetting.

Resetting only makes sense if one believes that the Lux Tax regime will continue after the CBA is renegotiated. It probably won't. The Red Sox total revenues increased by a whopping 63 million dollars from 2017 to 2018. Total revenues were a half a billion dollars in 2018. With revenues like that the Sox have more to lose financially from resetting than from any Lux Tax penalty. That why I say I will believe it when I see it not before.

[moonslav59]

Resetting only makes sense if one believes that the Lux Tax regime will continue after the CBA is renegotiated. It probably won't. The Red Sox total revenues increased by a whopping 63 million dollars from 2017 to 2018. Total revenues were a half a billion dollars in 2018. With revenues like that the Sox have more to lose financially from resetting than from any Lux Tax penalty. That why I say I will believe it when I see it not before.

 

It's harder to build the farm when going over. It's about more than just short term profit.

[Elktonnick]

The farm will take care of itself. No cares about the farm except a few posters on this board. If the farm is so important why does MLB want to abolish so many minor league teams.

[Bellhorn04]

It's harder to build the farm when going over. It's about more than just short term profit.

 

There's no draft penalty unless you go over by $40 million or more.

[Bellhorn04]

The farm will take care of itself. No cares about the farm except a few posters on this board.

 

Not true and not true.

[Elktonnick]

Not true and not true.

 

So I surmise you are one of the few who cares about the farm. (If you write it twice I guess that doubles your vote.)

[Bellhorn04]

So I surmise you are one of the few who cares about the farm. (If you write it twice I guess that doubles your vote.)

 

I think most fans care about the farm. Even if they don't follow it closely they recognize how important it is. It's always been important.

[Elktonnick]

I think most fans care about the farm. Even if they don't follow it closely they recognize how important it is. It's always been important.

Most fans can not name anyone in the Red Sox farm system except those on the 40 man roster and could care less.

Mlb's baseball move to sever ties and restructure the minor leagues portends the future.

 

The farm is becoming less important in the grand scheme of things. The trend towards younger and younger players making the majors and the improvement in College baseball is expediting the process of MLB moving toward a player development system more akin to that of the NBA and NFL. The movement to increase the pay for players in the lower minors is only going to acceralate this transition.

[Bellhorn04]

Most fans can not name anyone in the Red Sox farm system except those on the 40 man roster and could care less.

 

You really think most fans don't care if there are any exciting prospects in the system or not? You must think the average fan is basically an ignoramus, I guess.

[moonslav59]

Resetting only makes sense if one believes that the Lux Tax regime will continue after the CBA is renegotiated. It probably won't. The Red Sox total revenues increased by a whopping 63 million dollars from 2017 to 2018. Total revenues were a half a billion dollars in 2018. With revenues like that the Sox have more to lose financially from resetting than from any Lux Tax penalty. That why I say I will believe it when I see it not before.

 

The farm will take care of itself. No cares about the farm except a few posters on this board. If the farm is so important why does MLB want to abolish so many minor league teams.

 

Wrong. Plus, a strong farm helps keep a winning team on the field and revenues pouring in.