Fire Chaim Bloom!

[moonslav59]

Sox had the 6th rated farm in 2015, but most of it was fool's gold.

 

Prospects to See There: Matt Barnes, Garin Cecchini, Brian Johnson, Deven Marrero, Henry Owens, Eduardo Rodriguez, Blake Swihart

 

Of course it's all a crapshoot. Blake Swihart was a top 20 prospect at the time.

 

Here's a look at the top prospects over the years:

 

https://soxprospects.com/history.htm

 

The October 2015 list included:

1. Moncada (Sale)

2. Devers

3. Margot (Kimbrel)

4. Beni

5. Guerra (Kimbrel)

6. Kopech (Sale)

7. Johnson

9. S Travis

10 Marrero (Josh Taylor)

11. Chavis

12. Basabe (Sale)

13. Allen (Kimbrel)

17. Marco H

18 Dubon (Thornburg)

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by moonslav59

[notin]

Wow. A guy who can hit at a major league level!!! (The mere fact that RS fans see that as a cause for celebration pretty much shows how far the have fallen).

 

Munoz gave a nice early return,but it is a bit early to consider him a success story. He was coming off a season with a .653 OPS while complaining about playing time...

[moonslav59]

Munoz gave a nice early return,but it is a bit early to consider him a success story. He was coming off a season with a .653 OPS while complaining about playing time...

 

True, but then maybe it's a bit too early to call some of his other dumpster dives failures.

[notin]

True, but then maybe it's a bit too early to call some of his other dumpster dives failures.

 

Oh I think we can safely say Mazza, Springs, Hall, Covey, Kickham, and Leyer are failed dives. Especially if you consider the rest of their careers...

[Slasher9]

wrong thread. edited.

[Larry Cook]

Oh I think we can safely say Mazza, Springs, Hall, Covey, Kickham, and Leyer are failed dives. Especially if you consider the rest of their careers...

 

Kickham, mazza and springs may have some value if we don’t sign enough real pitchers!

[notin]

Kickham, mazza and springs may have some value if we don’t sign enough real pitchers!

 

Nope...

[moonslav59]

Kickham, mazza and springs may have some value if we don’t sign enough real pitchers!

 

They are all "make believe" pitchers.

[moonslav59]

Here is next year's Sox pitching staff:

 

1. Stroman

2. ERod

3. Eovaldi

4. Perez

5. Pivetta>Sale

6. Godley/Seabold/Mata/Ward (Pivetta)

 

Closer: Treinen

RP2: Colome

RP3: Barnes

RP4: D Hern

RP5: Taylor

RP6: Valdez

RP7: Brewer/Brasier/Weber/Houck/Covey/Brice/Walden

 

Maybe we sign Brantley for the OF or Springer, if we miss out on Stroman.

[Bellhorn04]

Nope...

 

Mazza's FIP seems to suggest some hope.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is no chance the Sox sign two high priced relievers and a starter. Bloom isn’t going to spend big on pieces with a high likelihood of injury or failure

[oldtimer]

There is no chance the Sox sign two high priced relievers and a starter. Bloom isn’t going to spend big on pieces with a high likelihood of injury or failure

 

In general, the financial state of the game next year depends on the progress made in the COVID-19 front. If a vaccine is rolled out early in 2021, and that is no certainty, then the process of vaccinating a significant portion of the population will take time. At best, the ball parks will open with reduced seating in April followed by increases as thee season progresses. How will the owners react to the diminished resources? Will they be willing to pay for huge and risky FA contracts? My guess it will be much harder for FA to move and they may have to settle for lower dollars and or shorter contracts. perhaps those with money to spend will be in the best shape for 2021. I see the Red Sox as one of those teams.

[notin]

Mazza's FIP seems to suggest some hope.

 

If this was Exploding Kittens, know what card I’d be playing?

 

The “Nope”...

[notin]

There is no chance the Sox sign two high priced relievers and a starter. Bloom isn’t going to spend big on pieces with a high likelihood of injury or failure

 

Why not? His history in Tampa is not really applicable...

[moonslav59]

If this was Exploding Kittens, know what card I’d be playing?

 

The “Nope”...

 

IMO, Bloom is going to spend like he has never spent before, so it's hard to know what he will do.

 

Lord knows we have a very weak 40 man roster, starting from about #15 to 18. He could spend on 12-18 players and "spread the wealth," or he could spend larger on a smaller group of player.

 

He could seek as many shorter terms/higher cost deals as possible. He could identify up to a handful of players he sees as being part of a longer term rebuild and spend large and long on them while trying to back fill the remaining holes from within a thin ML ready system.

 

If he ends up with $70 to maybe $90M to spend, dividing that money by 5 to 7 players versus 10-14 0r somewhere in between will show us more about Bloom's spending philosophy- something hard to get a read on with his history at Tampa Bay.

 

Since his M.O. seems to be doing well with finding cheaper gems in the rough, it might make more sense for him to spend larger on 6-8 players and then try to find 4-6 "cheaper gems" to fill the slots our system does not appears to be well positioned to adequately fill, right now.

 

One could imagine a competitive team by signing an ace, 2 top RP'ers, a swing man and a CF'er. That's just 5 players. He'd have to strike gold on almost all 5 AND hope for good health from others to be highly competitive in 2021, but building a deeper lasting core would, at worst, be a stepping stone to a solid 2022 team, when more money will be freed up to fill the remaining slots, and a better understanding of which farm hands can be counted on (or not) will be known.

 

Lets go with 5.

 

SP1 __________

SP2 ERod

SP3 Eovaldi

SP4 Perez

SP5 Pivetta>Sale

SP6 ________ (Pivetta) Godley/Weber/Mata/Ward/Seabold)

 

RP1 ________

RP2 ________

RP3 Barnes

RP4 D Hern

RP5 Taylor

RP6 Valdez

RP7 Brewer/Brasier/Brice/Covey/Mazza/Houck

 

C Vaz & Plawecki

1B Dalbec (Chavis)

2B Chavis/Munoz/Peraza/Lin/Chatham > Downs

3B Devers/Arroyo

SS Bogaerts

LF Beni/Puello (Chavis?)

CF ______/Duran (Lin)

RF Verdugo/Wilson

DH JD

[oldtimer]

IMO, Bloom is going to spend like he has never spent before, so it's hard to know what he will do.

 

Lord knows we have a very weak 40 man roster, starting from about #15 to 18. He could spend on 12-18 players and "spread the wealth," or he could spend larger on a smaller group of player.

 

He could seek as many shorter terms/higher cost deals as possible. He could identify up to a handful of players he sees as being part of a longer term rebuild and spend large and long on them while trying to back fill the remaining holes from within a thin ML ready system.

 

If he ends up with $70 to maybe $90M to spend, dividing that money by 5 to 7 players versus 10-14 0r somewhere in between will show us more about Bloom's spending philosophy- something hard to get a read on with his history at Tampa Bay.

 

Since his M.O. seems to be doing well with finding cheaper gems in the rough, it might make more sense for him to spend larger on 6-8 players and then try to find 4-6 "cheaper gems" to fill the slots our system does not appears to be well positioned to adequately fill, right now.

 

One could imagine a competitive team by signing an ace, 2 top RP'ers, a swing man and a CF'er. That's just 5 players. He'd have to strike gold on almost all 5 AND hope for good health from others to be highly competitive in 2021, but building a deeper lasting core would, at worst, be a stepping stone to a solid 2022 team, when more money will be freed up to fill the remaining slots, and a better understanding of which farm hands can be counted on (or not) will be known.

 

Lets go with 5.

 

SP1 __________

SP2 ERod

SP3 Eovaldi

SP4 Perez

SP5 Pivetta>Sale

SP6 ________ (Pivetta) Godley/Weber/Mata/Ward/Seabold)

 

RP1 ________

RP2 ________

RP3 Barnes

RP4 D Hern

RP5 Taylor

RP6 Valdez

RP7 Brewer/Brasier/Brice/Covey/Mazza/Houck

 

C Vaz & Plawecki

1B Dalbec (Chavis)

2B Chavis/Munoz/Peraza/Lin/Chatham > Downs

3B Devers/Arroyo

SS Bogaerts

LF Beni/Puello (Chavis?)

CF ______/Duran (Lin)

RF Verdugo/Wilson

DH JD

Frame this post and lets see what Bloom really does, both prior to the season and with the mid season adjustments. The outfield is fairly fluid with JBJ possible on a team friendly contract. I see Duran being with the team out of spring training. I see Beni and JBJ being the unknowns. Second base is an unknown but I think your depiction is reasonable. For DH, JDM is with us and I hope he can regain some of his past form. A DH with a 206 average making more than $20 Mil is a major drawback for the team.

 

Pitching is our greatest need and adding two starters while moving Eobaldi to the pen might work. I would also look for at least two capable relievers. Striking gold with pitchers is a very difficult thing to do. The process may take a year or two to form a pitching nucleus that will make us highly competitive.

[Larry Cook]

Frame this post and lets see what Bloom really does, both prior to the season and with the mid season adjustments. The outfield is fairly fluid with JBJ possible on a team friendly contract. I see Duran being with the team out of spring training. I see Beni and JBJ being the unknowns. Second base is an unknown but I think your depiction is reasonable. For DH, JDM is with us and I hope he can regain some of his past form. A DH with a 206 average making more than $20 Mil is a major drawback for the team.

 

Pitching is our greatest need and adding two starters while moving Eobaldi to the pen might work. I would also look for at least two capable relievers. Striking gold with pitchers is a very difficult thing to do. The process may take a year or two to form a pitching nucleus that will make us highly competitive.

 

I really think hang’em Chaim continues to sign tons of cheap pitchers this offseason.

 

But this offseason, he also adds a couple of quality arms for the bullpen.

 

I would like to see him bring pillar back after Bradley leaves.

[notin]

2B Chavis/Munoz/Peraza/Lin/Chatham > Downs

 

 

I’d be surprised if Peraza was tendered a contract at all. And part of me thinks Bloom would lean more towards Muniz and Arroyo - basically, his guys - over Lin, who might also be non-tendered, or Chatham, who has options left...

[Kimmi]

I really think hang’em Chaim continues to sign tons of cheap pitchers this offseason.

 

But this offseason, he also adds a couple of quality arms for the bullpen.

 

I would like to see him bring pillar back after Bradley leaves.

 

I don't see Bloom making any big deals this offseason. There is still too much uncertainty heading into next season, both with the virus situation and with the state of our returning roster, mainly pitching. He will sign stop gap type players to keep us competitive, but no big free agent signings yet. It's possible that he would make a big trade for a young starter, but do we have the pieces that other teams would want, without putting ourselves back 2 steps in other areas?

[Larry Cook]

I don't see Bloom making any big deals this offseason. There is still too much uncertainty heading into next season, both with the virus situation and with the state of our returning roster, mainly pitching. He will sign stop gap type players to keep us competitive, but no big free agent signings yet. It's possible that he would make a big trade for a young starter, but do we have the pieces that other teams would want, without putting ourselves back 2 steps in other areas?

 

Any big signing - probably not.

 

But some key medium signings, especially involving pitchers, could help make us a potential playoff threat,

[moonslav59]

I’d be surprised if Peraza was tendered a contract at all. And part of me thinks Bloom would lean more towards Muniz and Arroyo - basically, his guys - over Lin, who might also be non-tendered, or Chatham, who has options left...

 

Agreed. I only listed Peraza as a possible option, but he looks less and less possible.

 

Lin may be non-tendered but may still end up as AAA depth. I've never been high on Chatham, and having him as minor league depth makes more sense than counting on him as winning a slot on the big club, but there is a chance he improves and ends up helping.

 

Thanks for pointing out Arroyo. I'm not sure why I forgot him.

 

The 2B battle will likely come down to Arroyo, Chavis and Munoz with the hope that Downs takes over by late 2021 or early 2022.

 

Of course, nobody could shine, and we have to go 2B hunting during or after 2021, when, thankfully, Pedey's deal expires.

 

[Larry Cook]

Agreed. I only listed Peraza as a possible option, but he looks less and less possible.

 

Lin may be non-tendered but may still end up as AAA depth. I've never been high on Chatham, and having him as minor league depth makes more sense than counting on him as winning a slot on the big club, but there is a chance he improves and ends up helping.

 

Thanks for pointing out Arroyo. I'm not sure why I forgot him.

 

The 2B battle will likely come down to Arroyo, Chavis and Munoz with the hope that Downs takes over by late 2021 or early 2022.

 

Of course, nobody could shine, and we have to go 2B hunting during or after 2021, when, thankfully, Pedey's deal expires.

 

 

Hang’em Chaim has to sign a second baseman to provide competition,

[moonslav59]

I don't see Bloom making any big deals this offseason. There is still too much uncertainty heading into next season, both with the virus situation and with the state of our returning roster, mainly pitching. He will sign stop gap type players to keep us competitive, but no big free agent signings yet. It's possible that he would make a big trade for a young starter, but do we have the pieces that other teams would want, without putting ourselves back 2 steps in other areas?

 

I think, if he identifies a player he sees as being part of our extended future, he may pounce on one big signing. Then, he'd complement that signing with some moderate, role-filling signings and a few attempts at finding some "diamonds in the ruff."

 

If we assume he has a spending budget of $60-70M, there certainly is enough roster slots needing upgrades or filling to decide to sign 10 guys at $6-7M each. He could try to limit most to 1 or 2 year deals to keep future flexibility as we learn more about which, if any, prospects appear to be capable of filling some of the key slots we have open, now and will have open as more players are losing team control.

 

I think Bloom will likely keep $8-12M for summer spending, and will sign one guy to a decent deal ($12-22M/yr) and then use the remaining $40-50M to sign 5-8 players at relatively low prices.

[moonslav59]

Hang’em Chaim has to sign a second baseman to provide competition,

 

I disagree.

 

We do not need to fill every slot to be competitive, and to me, it makes the most sense to identify the slots we need filled that are most likely to be filled adequately from within the system, and which ones are least likely.

 

I have more faith in Dalbec and Chavis at 1B than Duran &Wilson in CF or Pivetta, Weber and Seabold at SP'er.

 

I have more faith, although certainly not a lot more, in Arroyo, Chavis, Munoz (Chatham) at 2B than anyone we have to fill JBJ and maybe Beni's hole in the OF or the 6-7 open slots on the pitching staff.

 

At minimum, we have about 10-12 open slots:

 

CF

OF

2B

1B

SP

SP

RP

RP

RP

RP

(SP/RP)

(RP)

 

With "only" $60-70M to spend, we won't be getting anybody all that great, if we try to fill all these slots with roster additions. We have to choose the best chances of in-system fill-ins.

 

Now, that doesn't mean we can't or won't sign some veteran journeyman 2Bman at a low cost to bridge us to the hopes that Downs will be ready by 2022. Maybe we can find a 1B/2B player or a 1B/OF type that would fill 2 slots and allow more money to be spent on 2B, but to me, other than Dalbec at 1B, I think 2B is our next best chance at being adequate with what we got.

[Kimmi]

Any big signing - probably not.

 

But some key medium signings, especially involving pitchers, could help make us a potential playoff threat,

 

I agree sister!

[Kimmi]

I think, if he identifies a player he sees as being part of our extended future, he may pounce on one big signing. Then, he'd complement that signing with some moderate, role-filling signings and a few attempts at finding some "diamonds in the ruff."

 

If we assume he has a spending budget of $60-70M, there certainly is enough roster slots needing upgrades or filling to decide to sign 10 guys at $6-7M each. He could try to limit most to 1 or 2 year deals to keep future flexibility as we learn more about which, if any, prospects appear to be capable of filling some of the key slots we have open, now and will have open as more players are losing team control.

 

I think Bloom will likely keep $8-12M for summer spending, and will sign one guy to a decent deal ($12-22M/yr) and then use the remaining $40-50M to sign 5-8 players at relatively low prices.

 

It's hard to know who he's looking at and whether he's planning to trade any of our guys, like Vazquez. I still don't see him making a big signing, but I guess it's possible.

[moonslav59]

It's hard to know who he's looking at and whether he's planning to trade any of our guys, like Vazquez. I still don't see him making a big signing, but I guess it's possible.

 

I think he will make one splash signing or deal but with the longer term in mind.

 

He'll still have plenty of budget space to make plenty of smaller type additions.

[notin]

It's hard to know who he's looking at and whether he's planning to trade any of our guys, like Vazquez. I still don't see him making a big signing, but I guess it's possible.

 

Trevor Bauer is the obvious Big Splash. But I can see why he could and maybe should be avoided. If Bloom signs him, load that contract with opt outs!! Otherwise he could be Price 2.0...

[moonslav59]

Trevor Bauer is the obvious Big Splash. But I can see why he could and maybe should be avoided. If Bloom signs him, load that contract with opt outs!! Otherwise he could be Price 2.0...

 

I don't see Bauer as being Blooms first big splash. It's not like there are a bunch of other "splash" pitchers out there, this winter.

 

Who knows.

[Larry Cook]

I don't see Bauer as being Blooms first big splash. It's not like there are a bunch of other "splash" pitchers out there, this winter.

 

Who knows.

 

I agree, I think hang’em Chaim will operate one the second tier for his one semi big signing. Then it is back to the “potential upside guys” for the next 5 signings. And then the final 5 signings will be bargain basement “wal Mart specials”.

 

Ps: Cherrington hit gold on the “upside guys” signings his first year. If hang’em Chaim goes 5 for 5 like cherrington did, we could have a better than expected 2021!