Erod would restock the farm Cash out while his Value is at its Peak

[moonslav59]

The Rays track record does include finishing 3rd, 4th, or 5th five times in the 5 seasons prior to this year, and never finishing closer than 13 games of first place.

 

It's easy to call them the model to imitate when they are winning. But they have a lot of periods when they are losing that Sox fans could not handle. Heck, we have one 3rd place finish and people want to blow the whole thing up and rebuild...

 

True, but we did have a stretch with 3 last place finishes if 4 years.

[S5Dewey]

True, but we did have a stretch with 3 last place finishes if 4 years.

 

During which time we were rebuilding, just as the Rays have been doing.

 

I'm not completely sold on the way the Rays do business but I do think there has to be some middle ground between the way the two team's FO runs their teams. It involves making a rational judgement of how good your team is and whether or not to trade a player (like ERod or Chavis or even Beni) for prospects knowing that you may finish 3rd next year but the year after you could have that WSC team.

 

At the end of the day the thing that's done in the Sox farm system is that damn, irresponsible business of finishing 1st in their division for three consecutive years. It's ruined our chance to get prospects to replenish the farm!

[notin]

True, but we did have a stretch with 3 last place finishes if 4 years.

 

This is also the first year the Sox didn't finish first or fifth since 2011.

 

And despite that the Sox used those years to build their farm with players like Benintendi, Kopech, and Moncada, all that happens instead is debating about the job Cherington did and not how it benefited the club today. Sox fans are all about today. Not tomorrow. Many want to wait until tomorrow to fix it...

[moonslav59]

This is also the first year the Sox didn't finish first or fifth since 2011.

 

And despite that the Sox used those years to build their farm with players like Benintendi, Kopech, and Moncada, all that happens instead is debating about the job Cherington did and not how it benefited the club today. Sox fans are all about today. Not tomorrow. Many want to wait until tomorrow to fix it...

 

Yes, but "today" is all about yesterday when today was tomorrow, which was last year not today.

 

Hope that made your head spin like mine did writing it!

 

What cracks me up is how often we hear how trading prospects in a good thing, because their value is potential and speculative or that none of the guys we have traded have amounted to jack, so far (Moncada excluded), yet some of the same guys, okay, maybe not the same guys, now want to tell us to have faith in our farm rebuilding and how all these fine young prospects are going to lead us away from the mirage of a cliff. It literally cracks me up.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Please lock this topic up .I was angry as a wet cat when I wrote it .Erod is part of this teams future .

[moonslav59]

Please lock this topic up .I was angry as a wet cat when I wrote it .Erod is part of this teams future .

 

LOL, not much has changed since 9/29/19, in terms of ERod.

[Kimmi]

Tampa Bay makes small-market moves and they do it brilliantly. But we can't really follow their model.

 

However, snagging their former mastermind Friedman would be nice.

 

Why can't we make small market moves, if we could do it brilliantly?

 

Why do we have to make big market moves which end up handcuffing us for years to come?

[Kimmi]

Those were all deadline trades, so they sort of fit in a separate category.

 

The classic small-market move is 'selling high' like the Rays did with Archer and others.

 

It's also finding those second tier players that will give you more bang for you buck than the high priced free agents.

 

I am so not a fan of our gigantic payroll.

[Bellhorn04]

Why can't we make small market moves, if we could do it brilliantly?

 

Why do we have to make big market moves which end up handcuffing us for years to come?

 

I guess the obvious answer is that the difference between us and the Rays is the 4 rings. I wouldn't trade.

[moonslav59]

Why can't we make small market moves, if we could do it brilliantly?

 

Why do we have to make big market moves which end up handcuffing us for years to come?

 

In theory, it would be great, if we could master such "small market moves," and then make very few "big market moves" only when needed and only in strict moderation and for highly selective players (like Betts).

[notin]

Why can't we make small market moves, if we could do it brilliantly?

 

Why do we have to make big market moves which end up handcuffing us for years to come?

 

Exactly.

 

Look at the Yankees. They made small market moves to acquire Voit, Hicks, Urshela, Grigorius. Even the contract they gave to LeMahieu wasn’t a big market deal...

[moonslav59]

Exactly.

 

Look at the Yankees. They made small market moves to acquire Voit, Hicks, Urshela, Grigorius. Even the contract they gave to LeMahieu wasn’t a big market deal...

 

They haven't won it all in a long time either, but your point is a good one.

 

If the Dodgers win this year, does that mean it proves some big market moves are needed?

 

[moonslav59]

The following players are the highest paid contracts in MLB history. How many have rings during those contracts?

 

All over $150M total. Red= Ring

 

Trout, Harper, Stanton, Machado, ARod ('08-'17), Arenado, ARod ('01-'10), Miggy, Pujols, Cano, Votto, Price, Kershaw, Fielder, Scherzer, Greinke, Jeter ('01-'10), Mauer, Heywood, Teixeira, Verlander***, Felix H, Strasburg, Posey, Altuve ('18-'24), CC Sabathia ('09-'15), Chris Davis, Manny, Kemp, Tulo, Tanaka, Lester, AGon, Ellsbury, Miggy ('08-'15).

 

*** Not with team that signed him

Edited October 9, 2019 by moonslav59

[notin]

Make Lester red. 2016...

[moonslav59]

Make Lester red. 2016...

 

Done.

[fxkatt]

Exactly.

 

Look at the Yankees. They made small market moves to acquire Voit, Hicks, Urshela, Grigorius. Even the contract they gave to LeMahieu wasn’t a big market deal...

 

I've heard on yankee broadcasts that LeMahieu situational and strategic (bat handling etc) has had a big influence on many other Yankee hitters, including the mid-level guys they brought in to win the pennant.

[jacksonianmarch]

I've heard on yankee broadcasts that LeMahieu situational and strategic (bat handling etc) has had a big influence on many other Yankee hitters, including the mid-level guys they brought in to win the pennant.

 

Lemahieu's approach has changed a lot of the Yankees. Even though we hit over 300 homers, the Yanks are not as much a "grip it and rip it" team as we had been. Maybe that is with Stanton out for the year, but our situational hitting was awesome this year

[mvp 78]

LOL, Erod wouldn’t restock the farm. You wouldn’t even get a top 30 MiLB prospect for him.

[Nick]

Why can't we make small market moves, if we could do it brilliantly?

 

Why do we have to make big market moves which end up handcuffing us for years to come?

 

I agree that Sox need to make more small market moves. I'm all for it.

 

Then, as a big market team, we have the ability to acquire an impact player that can get us over the hump. The trick is not to get into a long term deal, especially with pitchers. You can't pay a player for multiple years just for couple of years of production. Having money does not mean you should waste it, and we've done that under all three GM's. Just look at unproductive relievers that we've overpaid as an example.

 

As a baseball fan, I'm okay watching young team play, knowing that better days are ahead. What I don't want to watch is bunch of aging, overpaid, unproductive baseball players. I don't want to see a team full of Ken Morelands next year.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree that Sox need to make more small market moves. I'm all for it.

 

Then, as a big market team, we have the ability to acquire an impact player that can get us over the hump. The trick is not to get into a long term deal, especially with pitchers. You can't pay a player for multiple years just for couple of years of production. Having money does not mean you should waste it, and we've done that under all three GM's.

 

Somebody needs to explain to me what has been so bad about our team's overall approach.

 

Haven't we won the World Series more than the other teams since Henry bought the Red Sox? (Yes.)

 

Sure we've made mistakes and wasted some money, but the bottom line is we've been pretty damn successful with what we've done.

[Nick]

Somebody needs to explain to me what has been so bad about our team's overall approach.

 

Haven't we won the World Series more than the other teams since Henry bought the Red Sox? (Yes.)

 

Sure we've made mistakes and wasted some money, but the bottom line is we've been pretty damn successful with what we've done.

 

As a Sox fan since 1967, at the age of 11, I'm grateful for what the Sox has done over the past 15 years.

 

It's just conversation.

[moonslav59]

LOL, Erod wouldn’t restock the farm. You wouldn’t even get a top 30 MiLB prospect for him.

 

For 2 years of control, I'm pretty certain we'd get top 20 or top 10- maybe a top 25 and a top 50.

[moonslav59]

Somebody needs to explain to me what has been so bad about our team's overall approach.

 

Haven't we won the World Series more than the other teams since Henry bought the Red Sox? (Yes.)

 

Sure we've made mistakes and wasted some money, but the bottom line is we've been pretty damn successful with what we've done.

 

I, for one, am fine with our approach. I may think DD went a bit too far, but he wanted to make sure we had a rock solid ring roster, and he got us there.

 

I'm fine with a couple down years used as collateral.

 

Just get us back to the top again in 3-4 years and keep bring a couple rings a decade and I'll accept anything in between.

[mvp 78]

For 2 years of control, I'm pretty certain we'd get top 20 or top 10- maybe a top 25 and a top 50.

 

I don’t believe it with Erod’s history.

[jacksonianmarch]

Then you don’t deal him. You make it a requirement to get a top 50 guy leading a package. You don’t get that? Then keep him

 

Paxton is a pretty good comp. we gave up Sheffield (#36 at the time) plus a couple others for him

[Jack Flap]

Unless you 1) are getting a younger/more controllable/cheaper SP in return or 2) plan on punting 2020-21 and rebuilding (which I think we all know is not going to happen, nor should it at this point), I don't see the case for trading E-Rod. He's someone we'd be trying to trade for if he was on another club.

[notin]

The only players the Sox should really consider trading are Betts, Barnes (who apparently has good value, but his inability to pitch back-to-back days is troublesome), and Dalbec (rising in the ranks but blocked by Devers).

 

Baseballtradevalues.com does give all of them favorable trade values, but of course, that is just projected WAR vs projected salary over remaining years. It cannot include the most important factor - how badly (or not) another GM wants the player...

[harmony]

For 2 years of control, I'm pretty certain we'd get top 20 or top 10- maybe a top 25 and a top 50.

According to this website, Eduardo Rodriguez has a surplus value of $37.6 million:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/

 

Taylor Trammel, Luis Patino and Dustin May -- the 28th-, 30th- and 32nd-ranked prospects at MLB Prospects -- have surplus values of $42.2 million, $45.6 million and $54.7 million, according to that website. Carter Kieboom, the 20th-ranked prospect, has a surplus value of $76.5 million. Heliot Ramos, the 50th-ranked prospect, is listed with a surplus value of $28.7 million.

Edited October 9, 2019 by harmony

[notin]

According to this website, Eduardo Rodriguez has a surplus value of $37.6 million:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/

 

Taylor Trammel, Luis Patino and Dustin May -- the 28th-, 30th- and 32nd-ranked prospects at MLB Prospects -- have surplus values of $42.2 million, $45.6 million and $54.7 million, according to that website. Carter Kieboom, the 20th-ranked prospect, has a surplus value of $76.5 million. Heliot Ramos, the 50th-ranked prospect, is listed with a surplus value of $28.7 million.

 

Think Kyle Wright and Brusdar Graterol...

[Kimmi]

I guess the obvious answer is that the difference between us and the Rays is the 4 rings. I wouldn't trade.

 

I wouldn't trade either, but it's hard to defend the idea that we're not buying championships.

 

I'd rather do it the small market way.