A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[mvp 78]

 

This is my suggestion to everyone right now.

[moonslav59]

Gross.

 

Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else we had.

[mvp 78]

Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else we had.

 

At that point in the game, I believe he was well less than 75%.

[moonslav59]

At that point in the game, I believe he was well less than 75%.

 

I don't, but it was pure speculation, at the time. Had Pedro got us out of the inning, he'd be a genius. If he replaced Pedro and we got shelled, he'd be grossly criticized for that, too.

[mvp 78]

I don't, but it was pure speculation, at the time. Had Pedro got us out of the inning, he'd be a genius. If he replaced Pedro and we got shelled, he'd be grossly criticized for that, too.

 

I believe we would have been taking the GM to task for not having a bullpen.

[Bellhorn04]

I believe we would have been taking the GM to task for not having a bullpen.

 

Correct. Plus the fact that, as we learned later, Theo virtually ordered Grady to get Pedro out of there at 105 pitches or so if it came to that.

[Bellhorn04]

@PeteAbe

 

Per a major league source, the #RedSox are planning to name bench coach Ron Roenicke as manager but are waiting for MLB to conclude its investigation into the 2018 team before making an announcement.

[Slasher9]

Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else we had.

 

here is the problem though. pedro already mentally checked out of that game. he walked off the mound after the 7th inning and pointed to the sky. thats pedro speak for "time to shower". his arm may have been 75% but his mind was at 0%.

grady little was a f***ing buffoon to put him back out there.

[moonslav59]

here is the problem though. pedro already mentally checked out of that game. he walked off the mound after the 7th inning and pointed to the sky. thats pedro speak for "time to shower". his arm may have been 75% but his mind was at 0%.

grady little was a f***ing buffoon to put him back out there.

 

I heard this many times, and I'm not doubting it, but I'd prefer to win or lose with THE MAN.

[mvp 78]

I heard this many times, and I'm not doubting it, but I'd prefer to win or lose with THE MAN.

 

Bottom of the 12th... Pedro is at 189 pitches... Coach Moonie is leaving Pedro in to finish the game!

[Bellhorn04]

here is the problem though. pedro already mentally checked out of that game. he walked off the mound after the 7th inning and pointed to the sky. thats pedro speak for "time to shower". his arm may have been 75% but his mind was at 0%.

grady little was a f***ing buffoon to put him back out there.

 

100%. And when interviewed about it later, Pedro freely admitted he was surprised that Grady wanted to send him back out for the 8th.

[Bellhorn04]

I heard this many times, and I'm not doubting it, but I'd prefer to win or lose with THE MAN.

 

The on deck hitter when Posada was up was Giambi. Not even Grady would have let him face Giambi, I don't think.

[notin]

I believe we would have been taking the GM to task for not having a bullpen.

 

We did. All year long...

[mvp 78]

We did. All year long...

 

Right, which is why Little wouldn't have been given s*** for taking Pedro out. The narrative was already there to complain about the pen.

[notin]

Right, which is why Little wouldn't have been given s*** for taking Pedro out. The narrative was already there to complain about the pen.

 

Or, you know since most managers manage to win and not to avoid press confrontations, it's a reason to leave Pedro in. You're advocating relying on the biggest weakness because everyone knows it's a weakness...

[mvp 78]

Or, you know since most managers manage to win and not to avoid press confrontations, it's a reason to leave Pedro in. You're advocating relying on the biggest weakness because everyone knows it's a weakness...

 

I'm not making the connection between an in game decision and a reason to avoid confrontation with the media. I'm just saying that we wouldn't be throwing Grady under the bus for going to the pen the way we have since he stuck with Pedro. It was basically just disagreeing with Moon's post.

 

I believe he should have managed to win by going to the pen.

[notin]

I'm not making the connection between an in game decision and a reason to avoid confrontation with the media. I'm just saying that we wouldn't be throwing Grady under the bus for going to the pen the way we have since he stuck with Pedro. It was basically just disagreeing with Moon's post.

 

I believe he should have managed to win by going to the pen.

 

Honestly, I can see both decisions.

 

I thought Pedro was running out of gas, but the Sox bullpen had been a problem all year long.

 

This was a classic case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't." Not sure why people don't just recognize that it was not an easy decision with no obvious right answer. Are we going on 17 years still second-guessing this? We have FOUR World Series titles, and if Grady made some move that worked out, the Sox potentially never hire Terry Francona. So maybe they not only lose in 2003 in the World Series to Florida, but also 2004 and 2007 never happen. And then who knows about 2013 and 2018, since so many other factors come into play.

 

Bottom line: Grady was screwed either way, and Red Sox fans have four massive reasons to be happy that things payed out the way they did...

[Bellhorn04]

One of the craziest things is that Francona nearly blew it in 2004 by leaving Pedro in too long (Game 5).

[mvp 78]

But the relief corps had pitched rather well during the playoffs up to that point. It did seem they had turned the corner and were pitching well.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2003_ALCS.shtml#all_post_pitching_BOS

 

Embree, Timlin and Williamson were looking as pretty good options.

[notin]

One of the craziest things is that Francona nearly blew it in 2004 by leaving Pedro in too long (Game 5).

 

The funny thing about 2003 is the Sox lost all 4 ALCS games started by Pedro and Derek Lowe, but won the games started by Wakefield and John Burkett...

[notin]

But the relief corps had pitched rather well during the playoffs up to that point. It did seem they had turned the corner and were pitching well.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2003_ALCS.shtml#all_post_pitching_BOS

 

Embree, Timlin and Williamson were looking as pretty good options.

 

So after the 162 game season where they underperformed, the 7 game post-season series represented "turning the corner"?

 

I will say, Timlin was ungodly that post-season. But the rest were up and down and rather nondescript.

 

But, hey, if you don't like how history played out for the Red Sox these past 17 years, maybe you also wish Bledsoe never got hurt against the Jets back in 2001...

[mvp 78]

So after the 162 game season where they underperformed, the 7 game post-season series represented "turning the corner"?

 

I will say, Timlin was ungodly that post-season. But the rest were up and down and rather nondescript.

 

But, hey, if you don't like how history played out for the Red Sox these past 17 years, maybe you also wish Bledsoe never got hurt against the Jets back in 2001...

 

1. Yes.

2. Ok? So maybe go to Timlin really quick to get through that part of the order?

3. Non sequitur. (That's the new "strawman" here on TS)

[notin]

1. Yes.

2. Ok? So maybe go to Timlin really quick to get through that part of the order?

3. Non sequitur. (That's the new "strawman" here on TS)

 

No more strawman? I don't like that. I always pictures Strawman as this yellow-ish scarecrow-like superhero who uses his power of disingenuous and deceptive comparisons to fight crime. I think he has potential for a Cartoon Network show...

[mvp 78]

No more strawman? I don't like that. I always pictures Strawman as this yellow-ish scarecrow-like superhero who uses his power of disingenuous and deceptive comparisons to fight crime. I think he has potential for a Cartoon Network show...

 

I picture Scarecrow from the Batman cartoon.

[Slasher9]

again...i would have been very OK with sending Pedro back out for the 8th if when walking off the mound after the 7th he DIDN'T POINT TO GOD AND LOOK TO THE SHOWERS. this isn't even up for debate. Pedro checked out mentally. now i know Notin thinks all major league players give 100% focus on every pitch of every game / regular season / spring training / postseason because hey they are the best .0001% players in the world and they only got there because they always always always give 100% and that walking off the mound thinking you are done after leaving it all on the field for 7 innings it is super easy to flip that switch and come back out the next inning.

grady lost his job because he made the dumbest mistake in the history of the red sox outside of selling ruth to the hated yankees.

its. not. rocket. science.

[notin]

I picture Scarecrow from the Batman cartoon.

 

I'm picturing mashup of him and Bazooka Joe. No idea why....

[S5Dewey]

again...i would have been very OK with sending Pedro back out for the 8th if when walking off the mound after the 7th he DIDN'T POINT TO GOD AND LOOK TO THE SHOWERS. this isn't even up for debate. Pedro checked out mentally. now i know Notin thinks all major league players give 100% focus on every pitch of every game / regular season / spring training / postseason because hey they are the best .0001% players in the world and they only got there because they always always always give 100% and that walking off the mound thinking you are done after leaving it all on the field for 7 innings it is super easy to flip that switch and come back out the next inning.

grady lost his job because he made the dumbest mistake in the history of the red sox outside of selling ruth to the hated yankees.

its. not. rocket. science.

 

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I believe what I said (out loud) at the time was, "Don't you f'ing do it!!"...and he did it anyway. I was more than ready to take my chances with Timlin and if that didn't work out I'd still think Timlin was the best option.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

again...i would have been very OK with sending Pedro back out for the 8th if when walking off the mound after the 7th he DIDN'T POINT TO GOD AND LOOK TO THE SHOWERS. this isn't even up for debate. Pedro checked out mentally. now i know Notin thinks all major league players give 100% focus on every pitch of every game / regular season / spring training / postseason because hey they are the best .0001% players in the world and they only got there because they always always always give 100% and that walking off the mound thinking you are done after leaving it all on the field for 7 innings it is super easy to flip that switch and come back out the next inning.

grady lost his job because he made the dumbest mistake in the history of the red sox outside of selling ruth to the hated yankees.

its. not. rocket. science.

 

This. I've been noting it since it happened. Pedro was done after seven and that was the plan. Grady panicked, changed the plan and it backfired. And even then, the Yanks still needed a pop-up by Posada to fall in to tie it.

[Kimmi]

I hatt the phrase "positive regression." Don't you mean progression? Or maybe just progress?

 

Positive regression is meaningless. The word "regression" implies negative growth, so how exactly does calling it "positive" change that? Where I come from, multiplying a negative by a positive is still a negative...

 

There is nothing wrong with the term 'positive regression'. In fact, when one is talking about positive regression, the word regression is actually sufficient.

[Kimmi]

Regression can mean returning to a prior level of performance. In math, it’s called regression to a mean. If you’re above the mean, then it’s just regression. If you’re below the mean, it’s positive regression.

 

Who knew that Jacko would ever excite me with a post like this?