A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[moonslav59]

I just remember how the Sox screwed with young X's confidence and development in '14: first they gave him the shortstop job, then two months in changed their minds and re-signed Stephen Drew, moving Bogie to third... only to change their minds again two months later, and trading Drew to the Yankees.

 

Ya, that team finished last.

 

Actually, Bogey played 3B for the Sox before his first full season, after just playing 10 games in AAA there.

 

Many felt he'd eventually end up at 3B due to his poor projections at SS defense.

 

He has worked his way to respectability on defense at SS (barely).

[moonslav59]

I agree totally. In fact I believe he has an excellent chance for the gold glove and silver slugger.

 

I almost spit up my cornflakes on this one.

 

You crack me up.

[Bellhorn04]

Devers UZR/150:

 

2017 -11.5

2018 -5.2

2019 +2.4

 

2019 Fielding Bible award winner Matt Chapman had a UZR/150 of +12.0.

 

Devers may never reach that level, but given his age and rate of improvement, it's not unreasonable to think he could become one of the best.

[Elktonnick]

I almost spit up my cornflakes on this one.

 

You crack me up.

 

I will see you in two years when you are eating crow. Do you prefer it with bbq sauce?

[moonslav59]

I will see you in two years when you are eating crow. Do you prefer it with bbq sauce?

 

I took your post to mean this year, but still, I'd take your bet.

 

There are some great defensive 3Bmen all around the league. If Devers can ever get to a +5 UZR/150, I'd be pleased and surprised.

 

(I still think Dalbec will end up with a better career UZR/150 than Devers at 3B.)

[OH FOY]

Devers got lighter, and it improved his footwork. That was his only problem before, if he had bad hands, that would be hard to fix. Instincts were always there. That's why it would have terrible to put him at 1st base.

[notin]

Changing positions after a player reaches the major leagues is an entirely different animal which is why Brock Holt is such an exceptional player.

 

It really does happen all the time.

 

We have fans on this board screaming for JD Martinez to grab a 1b mitt.

 

Look around the league. Players change positions on every team. And on most teams, the only player you need to look at is the 1b...

[OH FOY]

I took your post to mean this year, but still, I'd take your bet.

 

There are some great defensive 3Bmen all around the league. If Devers can ever get to a +5 UZR/150, I'd be pleased and surprised.

 

(I still think Dalbec will end up with a better career UZR/150 than Devers at 3B.)

 

Nope disagree, saw both, in the Minors.

[notin]

Devers has worked his ass off to improve at third and it has paid off hugely. If he keeps working at it he might become one of the best defensive third baseman in baseball.

 

He has.

 

Really to me, the best defensive 3b of the two should play 3b. Dalbec is taller, which is an advantage at 1b.

 

Or maybe Dalbec is trade bait. 1b doesn’t strike me as a tough spot to fill...

[Nick]

He has.

 

Really to me, the best defensive 3b of the two should play 3b. Dalbec is taller, which is an advantage at 1b.

 

Or maybe Dalbec is trade bait. 1b doesn’t strike me as a tough spot to fill...

 

I'm completely opposed to trading away Dalbec. Let's see what he's got......

[Elktonnick]

It really does happen all the time.

 

We have fans on this board screaming for JD Martinez to grab a 1b mitt.

 

Look around the league. Players change positions on every team. And on most teams, the only player you need to look at is the 1b...

 

Fans screaming on this board to shift JDM to 1b. LMFAO!!! WOW that sure is a convincing argument. I am sure Bloom and Company will jump right on it.

[notin]

Fans screaming on this board to shift JDM to 1b. LMFAO!!! WOW that sure is a convincing argument. I am sure Bloom and Company will jump right on it.

 

Well look around MLB. Nearly every team has a starter who changed positions at the MLB level.

[Bellhorn04]

Well look around MLB. Nearly every team has a starter who changed positions at the MLB level.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in most cases it's a change to an 'easier' defensive position.

[Elktonnick]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in most cases it's a change to an 'easier' defensive position.

 

Moving Devers to first is not a new idea it has been around for the last two years at least. There were articles written making this same proposal in Dec 2017 when Devers was far less effective defensively then he has been the last two years.

 

What is significant there has been no recent chatter in the professional sports press that I could find. I think Mr Bloom has more important fish to fry than fixing something that ain't broke. But hey Cora likes to juggle lineups may be he will put Sales at third and have Devers start.

[notin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in most cases it's a change to an 'easier' defensive position.

 

 

Yes. With 1b being largely regarded as the “easiest” position...

[moonslav59]

Nope disagree, saw both, in the Minors.

 

Right.

 

LOL

 

[moonslav59]

The funnies move ever made was to move ARod to 3B so the worst defensive SS in my lifetime could stay at SS.

[Elktonnick]

The funnies move ever made was to move ARod to 3B so the worst defensive SS in my lifetime could stay at SS.

 

Derek Jeter winner of 5 gold gloves the worst defensive SS in your lifetime!! You have got to be kidding!!!!!

[moonslav59]

Derek Jeter winner of 5 gold gloves the worst defensive SS in your lifetime!! You have got to be kidding!!!!!

 

Like GG awards mean anything.

 

Jeter was the worst full time defensive SS I have ever seen. No doubt. Period. Exclamation point!

 

(Note: He was juts plain bad early in his career. He was horrible the rest.)

[Elktonnick]

Like GG awards mean anything.

 

Jeter was the worst full time defensive SS I have ever seen. No doubt. Period. Exclamation point!

 

(Note: He was juts plain bad early in his career. He was horrible the rest.)

 

We are all entitled to our opinions but I think 99.9% of all baseball fans, coaches and anyone who has played the game beyond tee ball would take issue with that opinion. I certainly wouldn't repeat that opinion out loud anywhere between the Hudson and Connecicut Rivers unless I had police protection and was wearing Kevlar vest.

[moonslav59]

2004-2014 MLB SS Defense

Top 29 Qualified UZR

27. Y Betancourt -20.7

28. H Ramirez -53.6

29. Derek Jeter -62.4

 

Worst 3 by UZR/150

-8.4 Betancourt

-8.3 HRam

-6.9 Jeter

 

Now look at DRS, and nobody is even close. He nearlt doubled the next worst guy, HRam):

 

-139 Jeter

-73 HRam

-66 Betancourt

 

(HRam + Betancourt= -139!)

 

Yup--worst in my lifetime! Not even close. Not even open for discussion, unless you want to count guys that didn't play much.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/offseason-outlook-boston-red-sox-10.html

[moonslav59]

We are all entitled to our opinions but I think 99.9% of all baseball fans, coaches and anyone who has played the game beyond tee ball would take issue with that opinion. I certainly wouldn't repeat that opinion out loud anywhere between the Hudson and Connecicut Rivers unless I had police protection and was wearing Kevlar vest.

 

I've had plenty of people, including on this site and the old one who agree with me, or agree he was bad but maybe not "the worst."

[moonslav59]

We are all entitled to our opinions but I think 99.9% of all baseball fans, coaches and anyone who has played the game beyond tee ball would take issue with that opinion. I certainly wouldn't repeat that opinion out loud anywhere between the Hudson and Connecicut Rivers unless I had police protection and was wearing Kevlar vest.

 

They once gave the GG to a guy who DH'd the whole year. Tell me the award means anything, except that it is a popularity contest.

[moonslav59]

We are all entitled to our opinions but I think 99.9% of all baseball fans, coaches and anyone who has played the game beyond tee ball would take issue with that opinion. I certainly wouldn't repeat that opinion out loud anywhere between the Hudson and Connecicut Rivers unless I had police protection and was wearing Kevlar vest.

 

The guy made one good play his whole life, and we had to watch it replayed 17 million times.

 

I guess some people think he made that play more than once.

[Elktonnick]

2004-2014 MLB SS Defense

Top 29 Qualified UZR

27. Y Betancourt -20.7

28. H Ramirez -53.6

29. Derek Jeter -62.4

 

Worst 3 by UZR/150

-8.4 Betancourt

-8.3 HRam

-6.9 Jeter

 

Now look at DRS, and nobody is even close. He nearlt doubled the next worst guy, HRam):

 

-139 Jeter

-73 HRam

-66 Betancourt

 

(HRam + Betancourt= -139!)

 

Yup--worst in my lifetime! Not even close. Not even open for discussion, unless you want to count guys that didn't play much.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/offseason-outlook-boston-red-sox-10.html

 

Guess you never saw Don Buddin play

[Michigan adam]

I always thought he was WAY OVER RATED. I thought nomar was better on D, and he wasn't great either. He simply failed the eye test. If the ball came to him he would stop it, but zero range.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jeter was still a 73 WAR player with 5 rings, so it isn't like he was overrated. He was never a great rangy shortstop. He was the kind of guy who made the routine plays every time and had a way of making the harder plays as well. He just wasn't getting to the balls in the hole or up the middle that his peers were getting to. All in all, he probably should have been the 3b when we got Arod, but he was too proud for that. I watched at least 70% of the games he played in his career, and I am aware of the DRS and UZR deficiencies. He wasn't a good defender, but he wasn't the butcher early on that he became later, especially after the ankle injury

[moonslav59]

Jeter was still a 73 WAR player with 5 rings, so it isn't like he was overrated. He was never a great rangy shortstop. He was the kind of guy who made the routine plays every time and had a way of making the harder plays as well. He just wasn't getting to the balls in the hole or up the middle that his peers were getting to. All in all, he probably should have been the 3b when we got Arod, but he was too proud for that. I watched at least 70% of the games he played in his career, and I am aware of the DRS and UZR deficiencies. He wasn't a good defender, but he wasn't the butcher early on that he became later, especially after the ankle injury

 

Jeter was certainly a big plus player overall. His offense outweighed his defense and then some. He was a big plus in the clubhouse as well. My diss on his D was in no way meant to imply he was an overall bad player.

 

(I do think he should have moved to 3B for ARod- like Nomar was going to do- not that ARod was a great defensive SS.)

[cp176]

Guess you never saw Don Buddin play

 

Now we are talking! Don Buddin was the first Red Sox shortstop that I remember playing. You are correct as well.

[cp176]

Jeter was still a 73 WAR player with 5 rings, so it isn't like he was overrated. He was never a great rangy shortstop. He was the kind of guy who made the routine plays every time and had a way of making the harder plays as well. He just wasn't getting to the balls in the hole or up the middle that his peers were getting to. All in all, he probably should have been the 3b when we got Arod, but he was too proud for that. I watched at least 70% of the games he played in his career, and I am aware of the DRS and UZR deficiencies. He wasn't a good defender, but he wasn't the butcher early on that he became later, especially after the ankle injury

 

There really is something to be said for players who consistently make the plays that they should make. Too many people fall in love with the athleticism of the guy who can get to every ball and on occasion can make the great great play. if you had to choose, I would take the consistency every day without question.