A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[Nick]

DD should have sold high on Benintendi and shipped him off with 8 c 10 glossies of his catch against the Astros and his Game 2 World Series catch.

 

This is why management should NEVER consider anyone as untouchables. Always explore trade value of each player after each season. You don't have to make ANY trades.

 

Why NOT explore what you can get for Devers? I've been his biggest fan since he was called up. But if I can get two "Devers" for the real one, why not go for it?

 

I always thought Beni was overrated, not to say that he wasn't good. This board fell in love with our 3 B's and got carried away with it. Well he's no Betts. I'm just surprised that even Moon has cooled on him.

 

Biggest task for the management is to figure out what year in the future do we target to go for it again. Make trades to maximize the talent for that year.

That may require trading away established young veterans for up and coming future major leaguers.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Nick

[jad]

This is why management should NEVER consider anyone as untouchables. Always explore trade value of each player after each season. You don't have to make ANY trades.

 

Why NOT explore what you can get for Devers? I've been his biggest fan since he was called up. But if I can get two "Devers" for the real one, why not go for it? ...

 

Great idea! Now, since I haven't been following the league closely this year, remind me which team has two players who hit 30+ hr, 200 hits, 50 doubles, over .300, under team control making almost nothing, who would jump at the chance of giving them up for one such player?

[Bellhorn04]

Great idea! Now, since I haven't been following the league closely this year, remind me which team has two players who hit 30+ hr, 200 hits, 50 doubles, over .300, under team control making almost nothing, who would jump at the chance of giving them up for one such player?

 

Yeah, I think it might be more useful to presume that the other party doesn't really like giving you back twice as much as you're giving them.

 

If you trade Devers you're more likely to get back a package of prospects that MIGHT turn into double the value, and MIGHT turn into dust.

[moonslav59]

ERod is a mark in Ben’s favor in the pitching column and possibly his only positive mark in the pitching column.

 

D Hern is a possibility.

 

Austin Maddox was pretty good but has been hurt.

 

Buttrey (RP) is good but your guy traded him away. Same with Kopech & Allen.

 

I'd say ERod, Kopech, Allen, DHern and Buttrey are a better 5 than DD's top 5 prospect gets, and it's even better than Theo's last 4 years. (Last 12 years broken into 3- 4 year equal sample sizes), yet all you talk about is ben's inability to acquire top pitching prospects. I've never once heard you talk about DD's lack of acquiring top prospects or young pitching or Theo's last few years. (Maybe I missed those posts. My apologies, if I did.)

[moonslav59]

Yeah, I think it might be more useful to presume that the other party doesn't really like giving you back twice as much as you're giving them.

 

If you trade Devers you're more likely to get back a package of prospects that MIGHT turn into double the value, and MIGHT turn into dust.

 

Awful hard to double Devers.

 

Maybe getting 3 guys half as good would add up to 1.5 Devers.

[Nick]

Great idea! Now, since I haven't been following the league closely this year, remind me which team has two players who hit 30+ hr, 200 hits, 50 doubles, over .300, under team control making almost nothing, who would jump at the chance of giving them up for one such player?

 

I guess you missed the part about 2 "Devers" for 1 real one. Thanks for your narrative though.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think it might be more useful to presume that the other party doesn't really like giving you back twice as much as you're giving them.

 

If you trade Devers you're more likely to get back a package of prospects that MIGHT turn into double the value, and MIGHT turn into dust.

 

Or you can get two major league starting pitcher for Devers. Would you trade Devers for 2 E Rods?

 

I'm simply making a point and to agree with the original poster. Sell high. It never hurts to explore, no?

[Slasher9]

Awful hard to double Devers.

 

Maybe getting 3 guys half as good would add up to 1.5 Devers.

 

Panda = double Devers

[moonslav59]

Panda = double Devers

 

Literally, yes.

[moonslav59]

Or you can get two major league starting pitcher for Devers. Would you trade Devers for 2 E Rods?

 

I'm simply making a point and to agree with the original poster. Sell high. It never hurts to explore, no?

 

ERod has only 2 years of team control, so, no.

[a700hitter]

D Hern is a possibility.

 

Austin Maddox was pretty good but has been hurt.

 

Buttrey (RP) is good but your guy traded him away. Same with Kopech & Allen.

 

I'd say ERod, Kopech, Allen, DHern and Buttrey are a better 5 than DD's top 5 prospect gets, and it's even better than Theo's last 4 years. (Last 12 years broken into 3- 4 year equal sample sizes), yet all you talk about is ben's inability to acquire top pitching prospects. I've never once heard you talk about DD's lack of acquiring top prospects or young pitching or Theo's last few years. (Maybe I missed those posts. My apologies, if I did.)

All non impact nobodies. I wouldn’t be bragging about any of these people. I never said that DD was good at recruiting pitching prospects, but when he acquired pitchers, he got us Sale, Price and Kimbrel while Ben got us guys like Aaron Cook. He couldn’t recruit or acquire top pitching. He was just awful in that category.

[oldtimer]

Great idea! Now, since I haven't been following the league closely this year, remind me which team has two players who hit 30+ hr, 200 hits, 50 doubles, over .300, under team control making almost nothing, who would jump at the chance of giving them up for one such player?

 

When you have someone who is young and performing at a high level, What is the probability you can improve on that situation with a trade? There is probably a greater probability you can do much worse.

[Bellhorn04]

Or you can get two major league starting pitcher for Devers. Would you trade Devers for 2 E Rods?

 

I'm simply making a point and to agree with the original poster. Sell high. It never hurts to explore, no?

 

It never hurts to explore, no. But realistically, you're pretty unlikely to find a trade partner who will give you back something that's obviously better than what you're giving up.

 

There are reasons why you just don't see a guy like Devers get traded.

[Bellhorn04]

All non impact nobodies. I wouldn’t be bragging about any of these people. I never said that DD was good at recruiting pitching prospects, but when he acquired pitchers, he got us Sale, Price and Kimbrel while Ben got us guys like Aaron Cook. He couldn’t recruit or acquire top pitching. He was just awful in that category.

 

Kopech was not non-impact, because he was one of the two big pieces that got us Sale.

[notin]

Or you can get two major league starting pitcher for Devers. Would you trade Devers for 2 E Rods?

 

I'm simply making a point and to agree with the original poster. Sell high. It never hurts to explore, no?

 

Maybe this isn't selling high on Devers? Maybe he continues to get better?

 

Would you trade Devers to Atlanta for OF Drew Waters, RHSP Ian Anderson, and 3B Austin Riley. All 3 are Top 100 prospects on every list...

[harmony]

Great idea! Now, since I haven't been following the league closely this year, remind me which team has two players who hit 30+ hr, 200 hits, 50 doubles, over .300, under team control making almost nothing, who would jump at the chance of giving them up for one such player?

Note these stats for the Age 22 seasons of two players:

 

Player A 748 PA, 123 R, 213 H, 42 HR, 124 RBI, 46 SB, .310/.360/.560/.919, OPS+ 136

Player B 702 PA, 129 R, 201 H, 32 HR, 115 RBI, 8 SB, .311/.361/.555/.916, OPS+ 133

 

Player A is Alex Rodriguez and Player B is Rafael Devers.

 

That's elite company.

[notin]

All non impact nobodies. I wouldn’t be bragging about any of these people. I never said that DD was good at recruiting pitching prospects, but when he acquired pitchers, he got us Sale, Price and Kimbrel while Ben got us guys like Aaron Cook. He couldn’t recruit or acquire top pitching. He was just awful in that category.

 

To be fair, Cherington was hamstrung at the beginning of his tenure to the point where had had to trade Marco Scutaro just to afford Cody Ross. Dombrowski started out with no such restrictions.

 

And right now, we don't know if Sale and Price are going to lead the staff or be two rotation fillers costing the team $57mill in AAV annually for the next 3 seasons. These were exactly the type of contracts Cherington was looking to avoid, which is why he didn't sign any free agents to deals longer than 3 years...

[a700hitter]

To be fair, he was hamstrung at the beginning of his tenure to the point where had had to trade Marco Scutaro just to afford Cody Ross.

 

And right now, we don't know if Sale and Price are going to lead the staff or be two rotation fillers costing the team $57mill in AAV annually for the next 3 seasons. These were exactly the type of contracts Cherington was looking to avoid, which is why he didn't sign any free agents to deals longer than 3 years...

There is no control over injuries, but it can’t be argued that Price and Sale were 2 of the best starting pitchers in baseball when acquired.

[a700hitter]

Kopech was not non-impact, because he was one of the two big pieces that got us Sale.

;)

[notin]

There is no control over injuries, but it can’t be argued that Price and Sale were 2 of the best starting pitchers in baseball when acquired.

 

The Sale trade was an excellent move. But the Sale extension, maybe not. And to give it after Sale had missed almost all of the last half of the prior season with an injury does lead to a few questions.

 

Price was an elite pitcher. But a 7 year deal? He was already 31 at the time. Does anyone think he would be the same pitcher at age 38? At some point in that deal, the chances of decline - and very likely steep decline - were extremely probable. Deals like that are made for teams who want to "win now and lose later." Which is great when it is still now, but later will eventually get here...

[Bellhorn04]

These were exactly the type of contracts Cherington was looking to avoid, which is why he didn't sign any free agents to deals longer than 3 years...

 

Other than Pablo, Hanley and Castillo, you mean?

[notin]

Other than Pablo, Hanley and Castillo, you mean?

 

At the beginning of his regime, he limited them to 3 years.

 

But yeah he lost his way after a while and started giving out those deals. The Sandoval one always irked me the most, since he was clearly in decline...

[Bellhorn04]

But yeah he lost his way after a while and started giving out those deals. The Sandoval one always irked me the most, since he was clearly in decline...

 

I'll say it for Kimmi in her absence: Lucchino!

[notin]

I'll say it for Kimmi in her absence: Lucchino!

 

It is possible, but I also think Lucchino gets blamed for a lot of stuff he is not so responsible for. He is jut such an easy scapegoat...

[moonslav59]

All non impact nobodies. I wouldn’t be bragging about any of these people. I never said that DD was good at recruiting pitching prospects, but when he acquired pitchers, he got us Sale, Price and Kimbrel while Ben got us guys like Aaron Cook. He couldn’t recruit or acquire top pitching. He was just awful in that category.

 

1. I'm not bragging. Saying he's been better than DD and the last 4 years of Theo is not something great.

2. You never criticize DD for not acquiring or developing young pitchers.

3. It's easy trading blue chip prospects for good pitchers.

4. I'm not sure bragging on Price is a plus.

[moonslav59]

1. I'm not bragging. Saying he's been better than DD and the last 4 years of Theo is not something great.

2. You never criticize DD for not acquiring or developing young pitchers.

3. It's easy trading blue chip prospects for good pitchers.

4. I'm not sure bragging on Price is a plus.

5. Impact "nobodies" as of now.

[moonslav59]

Kopech was not non-impact, because he was one of the two big pieces that got us Sale.

 

Espinoza has looked "non impact" so far, but he brought us Pom, who helped us win one division title.

[notin]

Espinoza has looked "non impact" so far, but he brought us Pom, who helped us win one division title.

 

And Logan Allen helped the Sox get Kimbrel.

 

 

The fact is, the Sox were not bad at drafting pitching talent. They were just bad at keeping it...

[moonslav59]

There is no control over injuries, but it can’t be argued that Price and Sale were 2 of the best starting pitchers in baseball when acquired.

 

...and Kopech & Espinoza were two of the top pitching prospects when traded, but they got hurt- you call them "nobodies." I guess there is "control over injuries" when it suits your position.

[moonslav59]

Other than Pablo, Hanley and Castillo, you mean?

 

He also signed Victorino to 3 years.