Sox Trade Targets

[moonslav59]

We need a slugger a Closer and a starter to win a World Series .

Players I'd add .

1. Shane Green I think we will make this move soon .

2.Hunter Renfroe

3. Max Scherzer .Id trade Erod,Casas

 

Bullpen of Workman 8th ,Green 9th

starters Scherzer,Price ,Sale ,Porcello

Lineup Mookie,Devers ,Renfroe,JDM ,Bogey,Chavis ,

 

Who do we give for Renfroe & Greene? Who else do we add to get Scherzer?

[FredLynn]

A relief ace you can't use back to back is not a relief ace.

 

Whoever said he is a relief ace?

[Swiharts Ghost]

Who do we give for Renfroe & Greene? Who else do we add to get Scherzer?

 

If I knew that I'd be a GM .I really think we have enough but may have to lose a familiar face to do it

[Swiharts Ghost]

Workman stuff is really great this year finding crazy hair smith was a bonus Colten and Walden are serviceable .Matty fire can needs a rest the break will help only if we get someone like Green .My priority is Closer ,Starter ,Power bat in this order. Do we gamble on casty and Green from Detroit .Casty has had a s*** year but ? Guy may need a change of scenery ? I would by now .Hunter Renfroe is my target though if I'm Dave . Edited June 28, 2019 by Swiharts Ghost

[Bellhorn04]

Whoever said he is a relief ace?

 

'Relief ace' is just the new jargon for a team's best reliever, whether or not they're the conventional closer.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Who do we give for Renfroe & Greene? Who else do we add to get Scherzer?

 

This is all fantasyland anyway, but I'll play along. Beni would be part of the Renfroe deal. We don't have the pieces to get Scherzer. Greene is actually a possibility.

[devildavid]

And if Eovaldi and Pearce get healthy and perform in the second half, we'll like the signings just fine again.

 

Yet there was never any reason to expect anything from either of them. They were late season additions that we got lucky with. Their track records indicate they will not be capable of repeating what they did in the short term over an entire season. They are similar to Nunez, who gets everyone excited for brief stretches but is really just a decent bench player at best.

[devildavid]

Face it. Fans are fickle. How long ago were some posters advocating trading Vaz and going with a catching duo of Leon and Swihart? How many want to dump Vaz now?

 

How long ago was there talk of some way, any way, getting rid of Erod and now are realizing how valuable he is?

 

And that doesn't even begin to get into the JBJ discussion.

 

Fortunately the FO doesn't run the team like TalkSox would.

 

I am not a fickle fan. I did not get overly excited about Pearce's or Eovaldi's future potential with the team just because they had a great postseason. Fickle can cut both ways. Some fans get overly excited about short term success. I was a Middlebrooks detractor when many fans thought he was the next big thing. I have thought Pedroia was finished since about two season ago, and I think he is a great player. I said to be patient with JBJ this season. I wanted Leon over Swihart. Sometimes I am right and sometimes wrong in my assessments, but it's not because I'm a fickle fan. So enough of the fans are fickle arguments as we all are just fans here, evaluating from a distance.

[Bellhorn04]

Yet there was never any reason to expect anything from either of them. They were late season additions that we got lucky with. Their track records indicate they will not be capable of repeating what they did in the short term over an entire season.

 

There were other reasons to think Eovaldi could be a better pitcher going forward than his track record suggested. He added a cut fastball to his repertoire and he had a dramatic improvement in his K/BB numbers.

 

His ability to stay healthy is certainly a question, can't argue that one.

[OH FOY]

Our starters this year have underperformed so far this season it is unreal. I know this about the Pen, but the Starters are getting off too easy.

Sale, Price, Porcello, E-Rod, and Eovaldi (of course injured), have given 47% Quality Starts this season so far.

Bostonsportsinf.

[Bellhorn04]

Our starters this year have underperformed so far this season it is unreal. I know this about the Pen, but the Starters are getting off too easy.

Sale, Price, Porcello, E-Rod, and Eovaldi (of course injured), have given 47% Quality Starts this season so far.

Bostonsportsinf.

 

It's true. We keep waiting for the starters to 'hit their stride', but for the most part it just isn't happening. Sale has been an enigma. He had that stretch where he had 40 strikeouts without a walk and it looked like he was back to full awesomeness, but then started scuffling again.

 

Such is baseball, I guess. Crazy freaking game.

[OH FOY]

Sorry I'm on wrong thread, but I'll finish it here. With so many poor Starts, it has compounded into our Relievers, just not enough innings from the Starters, and now with a half a season left, they might be spent. They have been overused, and it is starting to show in the late innings, as season progressed.

Crap goes downhill.

Rephrase that: Just not enough quality innings, from our Starters. Innings are there about the same at the halfway point, just not the quality of last year.

Edited June 28, 2019 by OH FOY!

[notin]

It's true. We keep waiting for the starters to 'hit their stride', but for the most part it just isn't happening. Sale has been an enigma. He had that stretch where he had 40 strikeouts without a walk and it looked like he was back to full awesomeness, but then started scuffling again.

 

Such is baseball, I guess. Crazy freaking game.

 

Part of me thinks there was some massive failures to communicate this off-season.

 

Dombrowski went about this off-season like his plan was to build a stellar rotation that mitigated the need for an expensive and powerful bullpen.

 

Cora has been managing like his goal is to minimize the starters to keep them rested for the postseason.

 

Who exactly is supposed to be pitching here?

 

It’s not even the All Star break and the Red Sox have already used 24 different pitchers this year and had 15 different pitchers start games. Last year, for the entire season, the Red Sox used 23 different pitchers and had 13 different pitchers start games...

[Bellhorn04]

Part of me thinks there was some massive failures to communicate this off-season.

 

Dombrowski went about this off-season like his plan was to build a stellar rotation that mitigated the need for an expensive and powerful bullpen.

 

He got off to a flying start by signing Pearce and Eovaldi. Little did we know that was going to be it.

 

It does almost seem like there was a mixup with the budget numbers or something.

[Bellhorn04]

It's like JH called DD into the office after those signings and said 'Dave, do you realize you just spent your entire budget for this year?'

 

Dave: 'Oh. Whoops. So much for the bullpen.'

[notin]

He got off to a flying start by signing Pearce and Eovaldi. Little did we know that was going to be it.

 

It does almost seem like there was a mixup with the budget numbers or something.

 

 

I’d believe that except for the fact that Dombrowski has a long history of ignoring bullpens in the off-season, preferring internal solutions and inexperienced closers. He has had his success stories, but his failures as well. This year, so far we are in the latter category...

[notin]

It's like JH called DD into the office after those signings and said 'Dave, do you realize you just spent your entire budget for this year?'

 

Dave: 'Oh. Whoops. So much for the bullpen.'

 

 

While DD apparently did try to move Bradley, Porcello, and/or Bogaerts this off-season to clear budget, I’m still not convinced he wanted to spend it on bullpen. Like I said, it’s just not something he does often...

[Spudboy]

Lindor has two seasons of control remaining and has resisted all attempts by Cleveland to sign a long term deal before free agency. The Sox have neither the pieces to acquire him nor sufficient blackmail leverage on Cleveland GM Mike Chernoff to make a deal with their existing chips...

 

Still, it sounds good while reading it.

 

Lindor is a gem.

[Spudboy]

It's true. We keep waiting for the starters to 'hit their stride', but for the most part it just isn't happening. Sale has been an enigma. He had that stretch where he had 40 strikeouts without a walk and it looked like he was back to full awesomeness, but then started scuffling again.

 

Such is baseball, I guess. Crazy freaking game.

 

Good post.

 

Yes it is a crazy f***ing game.

 

And we love it for it's craziness. As well as other reasons.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yup, it’s not basketball or even football where the best teams always win.

[Kimmi]

I don't know if David Hernandez has been mentioned already, but this proposal makes a lot of sense to me:

 

Red Sox Stats‏ @redsoxstats 48m48 minutes ago

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Reds setup man David Hernandez ends up being the Sox top bullpen target. He's a good pitcher (dominant FIPs the last 3 years), does things the Sox like (misses bats in the zone, pitches up w fastball), and the price will be right ($1.3M left, FA to be).

 

Add Hernandez for a modest price, move Darwinzon Hernandez to the pen for the rest of the year and call him. Not sexy, but that’s another good pitcher and a high octane wildcard out in the pen. Makes it deeper and better. Hopefully Eovaldi stabilizes 5th spot to stop taxing pen.

 

As Red Sox Stats mentions, it's not sexy, but you don't need sexy to be good.

[notin]

I don't know if David Hernandez has been mentioned already, but this proposal makes a lot of sense to me:

 

Red Sox Stats‏ @redsoxstats 48m48 minutes ago

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Reds setup man David Hernandez ends up being the Sox top bullpen target. He's a good pitcher (dominant FIPs the last 3 years), does things the Sox like (misses bats in the zone, pitches up w fastball), and the price will be right ($1.3M left, FA to be).

 

Add Hernandez for a modest price, move Darwinzon Hernandez to the pen for the rest of the year and call him. Not sexy, but that’s another good pitcher and a high octane wildcard out in the pen. Makes it deeper and better. Hopefully Eovaldi stabilizes 5th spot to stop taxing pen.

 

As Red Sox Stats mentions, it's not sexy, but you don't need sexy to be good.

 

He’s a good acquisition if Cincy sells and the Sox move. I mentioned him as a candidate in post #61 of this thread...

[Kimmi]

He’s a good acquisition if Cincy sells and the Sox move. I mentioned him as a candidate in post #61 of this thread...

 

Good job Notin, you are on top of these things.

 

I don't have the time to follow other teams closely enough to ever know who might be available or who would be a good fit for our team. There are just too many players out there. Hence, I don't think I've ever made a trade proposal. I usually wait until a trade happens, then offer my opinion on it.

[moonslav59]

Part of me thinks there was some massive failures to communicate this off-season.

 

Dombrowski went about this off-season like his plan was to build a stellar rotation that mitigated the need for an expensive and powerful bullpen.

 

Cora has been managing like his goal is to minimize the starters to keep them rested for the postseason.

 

Who exactly is supposed to be pitching here?

 

It’s not even the All Star break and the Red Sox have already used 24 different pitchers this year and had 15 different pitchers start games. Last year, for the entire season, the Red Sox used 23 different pitchers and had 13 different pitchers start games...

 

Nice post.

 

I've never liked the strategy of quantity over quality although depth has it's virtues, even if it is just mediocre or slightly better than replacement level.

 

I realize much of the times our scrubs have pitched, it has been in blow-outs or low leverage situations, but we've had too many starts by nobodies, and too many meaningful IP'd by guys who have no business being on the mound in those games.

 

Had we added one to to decent to good RP'ers, we wouldn't have seen so many scrubs rotated through the 25 man roster in hopes one gets lucky.

 

I don't blame DD for not spending on SP'er depth. Johnson and Velazquez (plus DHern) looked like decent 6th starters last winter. Too bad we ended up with this:

 

GS Starter ERA as starter

7 Velazquez 6.41 (just 19.2 IP)

4 Eovaldi 6.00 (21 IP)

3 Weber 7.94 (just 11.1 IP)

2 Johnson 1.13 (just 8 IP)

2 Smith 9.82 (just 7.1 IP)

1 DHern 9.00 (just 3 IP)

 

The low IP per start is enough to kill a pen. 19 starts/ 70.1 IP. That's like 3.2 IP per start (49.1 IP in 15 starts not counting Eovaldi)

 

In some ways, worse than this is the pen numbers:

 

High leverage PAs:

37 Brewer

23 Velazquez

11 Taylor

10 Lakins

10 Smith

9 Johnson

9 Weber

7 Shawaryn

6 DHern

4 Poyner

2 Thornburg

 

128 PAs Total (91 not counting Brewer)

 

Had we had another RP'er equal to Barnes' 80 PAs in high leverage situations, maybe we'd not have 16 blown saves.

 

Late & Close PAs (OPS)

118 Barnes .678

92 Workman .505

79 Brasier .812

59 Walden .610

31 Brewer .833

27 Hembree .388

19 Velazquez .871

15 Taylor .205

14 Sale .500

14 Lakins 1.481

13 Porcello 1.135

11 ERod 1.600

6 Smith .333

5 Johnson 1.800

4 Thornburg .000

4 Price .750

2 Poyner 4.000

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by moonslav59

[vegasbob]

Cannot argue with your point of the potential difference one more Matt Barnes statistical twin would have made in the current record. That hypothetical pitcher plus Barnes in the 7th inning when a comeback is still possible, plus Workman could have salvaged a few more wins, maybe several since the others would be less used. Hembree may have been trending that way, and I suspect his loss for however long was somewhat a nail in DD/Cora's coffin re the BP. That and not one guy from Pawtucket who you can say made a real difference either by effective inning count or results.

 

I'll give Mike Shawaryn a pass on some decent numbers to date but only over 11.1 innings, but no decisions, no saves, not any real late and close PA's, looking at Moon's table above. yet

[devildavid]

It's true. We keep waiting for the starters to 'hit their stride', but for the most part it just isn't happening. Sale has been an enigma. He had that stretch where he had 40 strikeouts without a walk and it looked like he was back to full awesomeness, but then started scuffling again.

 

Such is baseball, I guess. Crazy freaking game.

 

Sale is not really an enigma. He started having physical problems last season. He still wasn't right when the 2019 season opened. He may be declared healthy now but physical decline and age take a toll on all athletes, no matter how great. A lot of these guys tough it out and say they are fine, but it takes time to really get back into their full stride. I think that injuries and their lasting impact are underestimated. a player says he's fine and we expect him to return to what he was too soon. Give Sale more time, and we'll see what he really has left in the tank. Look at the struggles David Price went through before he finally showed what he could do to lift a team to a championship,. and Price doesn't throw as hard as he used to. Age and injury are the two things that eventually erode the talents of even the greatest players.

[OH FOY]

Darwinzon Hernandez this year in the Minors between Portland and Pawtucket 48 innings Pitched he has given up 44 BB's. Kid has a arm, but he cannot throw it over for strikes, he'll have a hard time against Major Leaguers. They will just wait him out, and these guys are much better hitters, they will get it into a hitters count, and he'll be in trouble.

In 48 innings pitched between walks and hits, he has allowed 83 base runners.

Last start 3 innings 5 walks, ticking time bomb as a reliever.

He just got promoted to Pawtucket, lets see if he can get his act together there, maybe they can correct his issues, before we throw him in the middle of a Play-off race in the Majors.

Sorry I have to disagree about a Reliever for the Sox at this time.

Edited June 29, 2019 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

Darwinzon Hernandez this year in the Minors between Portland and Pawtucket 48 innings Pitched he has given up 44 BB's. Kid has a arm, but he cannot throw it over for strikes, he'll have a hard time against Major Leaguers. They will just wait him out, and these guys are much better hitters, they will get it into a hitters count, and he'll be in trouble.

In 48 innings pitched between walks and hits, he has allowed 83 base runners.

Last start 3 innings 5 walks, ticking time bomb as a reliever.

He just got promoted to Pawtucket, lets see if he can get his act together there, maybe they can correct his issues, before we throw him in the middle of a Play-off race in the Majors.

Sorry I have to disagree about a Reliever for the Sox at this time.

 

To me, Wright is our best in-house option for making an impact on our pen.

[S5Dewey]

Darwinzon Hernandez this year in the Minors between Portland and Pawtucket 48 innings Pitched he has given up 44 BB's. Kid has a arm, but he cannot throw it over for strikes, he'll have a hard time against Major Leaguers. They will just wait him out, and these guys are much better hitters, they will get it into a hitters count, and he'll be in trouble.

In 48 innings pitched between walks and hits, he has allowed 83 base runners.

Last start 3 innings 5 walks, ticking time bomb as a reliever.

He just got promoted to Pawtucket, lets see if he can get his act together there, maybe they can correct his issues, before we throw him in the middle of a Play-off race in the Majors.

Sorry I have to disagree about a Reliever for the Sox at this time.

 

DHern reminds me of Pat Light,whom the Sox unloaded a couple of years ago. I saw Light pitch in Portland was was impressed by his velocity but unimpressed by the number of walks he gave up. As I said at the time, "He can bring it, he just can't find it". I had hopes that Light would be able to gain some control but it didn't happen and as far as I can tell he's out of baseball now.

I'm still holding out hope for DHern because some pitchers do figure out how to control their pitches but he needs to do it soon because he ain't gettin' any younger.

[notin]

I question promoting Hernandez if he can’t find the plate. Do they think the plate is bigger in AAA or something? Or maybe the problem is the Eastern League umpires?