Where does Dustin Pedroia rank in Red Sox history?

[StephenCurry30]

He doesn't seemed to be very well liked around here it seems. a lot of people in the area seem to have turned against him, calling him a bad teammate, douche, etc.

 

He was a great player, but where do we rank him all time? He cant possibly be put into the same category was guys like Ortiz, Ted and Yaz can he? I think hes probably top 20 all time?

 

Seems like there has been a lot of debate lately on social media regarding him, and figured lets start a conversation.

[Jasonbay44]

He's one of the best players to ever wear a uniform in Red Sox history, period. This man won ROY, MVP, 4x all star two World Series rings, 4 gold gloves and spent his whole career in Boston. Not to mention he played his ass off every time he took the field. Pedroia currently ranks 10th all time in Red Sox history in WAR behind only Williams, Yaz, Clemens, Boggs, Evans, Cy Young, Tris Speaker, David Ortiz and Pedro. He's around there as best Red Sox player ever.

 

Seems like people quickly forget how good some players were in their prime.

[YastrzemskI]

Dustin has always given 100%.. every game, every at bat. He’s been fun to watch over the years but I don’t know where I would rank him in Red Sox lore.. gunna have to think about that.

[notin]

Dustin is one of only two players in MLB history to win ROY, MVP, a Gold Glove, and a Silver Slugger all within his first two seasons in MLB. (Ichiro was the other.)

[moonslav59]

In terms of grit & effort?

 

Top 3 for sure.

 

In terms of production?

 

Probably not top 20.

[Thunder]

He's definitely top 2 among players I've watched in my lifetime

[jacksonianmarch]

You saw Pedro and Papi. He’s ahead of one?

[harmony]

Dustin Pedroia ranks seventh among Red Sox position players in career bWAR:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/leaders_bat_50.shtml

 

Pedrioa's career bWAR of 51.7 is topped by only three Red Sox pitchers:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/leaders_pitch_50.shtml

[moonslav59]

Williams has to be number 1. I never saw him play.

 

I'd put Yaz, Papi, Pedro, Manny, Betts, Clemens, Rice, Evans and Boggs ahead of Pedey. There may be more I haven't thought of, especially before my time (early 70's).

 

Maybe he's top 10 in my book.

Edited May 28, 2019 by moonslav59

[Jasonbay44]

I'm only 25, so my list of best players I've seen play is a bit smaller. I'd have Pedroia 5 behind Ortiz, Pedro, Manny and Mookie. If Mookie signs long term in Boston and continues his trajectory, he could easily be number one.

 

Overall, its hard to judge guys I never saw play, but there is no way anyone would ever put Pedroia over guys like Ted Williams, Yaz, etc. If I was going to make a full list I'd probably slide Pedroia somewhere in 10-15 range.

[moonslav59]

Do Fred Lynn, Luis Tiant and Nomar come out ahead of Pedey, despite their limted time with the Sox?

 

Nomar had a much higher WAR per game played with the Sox, and so did Fisk.

[Jasonbay44]

Do Fred Lynn, Luis Tiant and Nomar come out ahead of Pedey, despite their limted time with the Sox?

 

Nomar had a much higher WAR per game played with the Sox, and so did Fisk.

Another issue I've had making a list is that it is nearly impossible to compare starting pitchers and position players, especially when the players are from different decades.

[moonslav59]

Some one said, today, that no active player has ever had a season with a higher OPS than Teddy's career 1.116.

 

The closest players are...

1.115 Pujols in '08

1.109 Harper '15

1.106 Pujols '03

1.102 Pujols '06

1.101 Pujols '09

1.088 Trout '18

1.079 Betts '18

1.078 Miggy '13

1.071 Pujols '04

1.071 Trout '17

(Ortiz 1.066 in '07, not active, I know)

1.049 Judge '17

1.042 Miggy '10

1.039 Pujols '05

1.033 Miggy '11

1.032 Votto '17

1.031 JD '18

 

[moonslav59]

Another issue I've had making a list is that it is nearly impossible to compare starting pitchers and position players, especially when the players are from different decades.

 

It's hard, but it's something that's been debated for decades. Yes, it's nearly impossible, but you can see how dominating a player was in his era and compare that dominance to a player in another era.

 

To me, Pedro was the greatest pitcher of all time- for a 5-7 year stretch, once you look at the context of his era and how he was so far ahead of the league ERA, WHIP and K/9 or K/BB numbers of his time.

[sk7326]

One the two best middle infielders in Red Sox history. (Doerr was the other) Nomar was better the time he was here, but the time was limited and the injuries were what they were.

 

The Top 20 Red Sox ever in terms of fWAR Clemens 76.8, Young 54.8, Pedro 51.9

 

1. Ted Williams 130.4

2. Yaz 94.8

3. Clemens 76.8

4. Boggs 70.8

5. Evans 64.3

6. Cy Young 54.8

7. Tris Speaker 54.4

8. Bobby Doerr 53.3

9. Pedro 51.9

10. Rice 50.3

11. Papi 48.8

12. Pedroia 47.1

13. Fisk 38.3

14. Foxx 37.6

15. Dom Dimaggio, Lefty Grove 34.6

 

Pedro is the best pitcher I ever saw, but Clemens did produce more for the Red Sox overall and that cannot be discounted.

[moonslav59]

One the two best middle infielders in Red Sox history. (Doerr was the other) Nomar was better the time he was here, but the time was limited and the injuries were what they were.

 

The Top 20 Red Sox ever in terms of fWAR Clemens 76.8, Young 54.8, Pedro 51.9

 

1. Ted Williams 130.4

2. Yaz 94.8

3. Clemens 76.8

4. Boggs 70.8

5. Evans 64.3

6. Cy Young 54.8

7. Tris Speaker 54.4

8. Bobby Doerr 53.3

9. Pedro 51.9

10. Rice 50.3

11. Papi 48.8

12. Pedroia 47.1

13. Fisk 38.3

14. Foxx 37.6

15. Dom Dimaggio, Lefty Grove 34.6

 

Pedro is the best pitcher I ever saw, but Clemens did produce more for the Red Sox overall and that cannot be discounted.

 

Fisk had about 2/3's the games with Boston as Pedey, so his WAR per game is much higher. Same with Lynn and others... not that this has to be the deciding factor.

[sk7326]

Fisk had about 2/3's the games with Boston as Pedey, so his WAR per game is much higher. Same with Lynn and others... not that this has to be the deciding factor.

 

Longevity matters.

 

Going to the JAWS rankings - Pedroia ranks 19th all time among 2nd basemen - smack in the middle of the pack relative to guys who actually made the hall of fame. There are guys above him with better cases - Bobby Grich and the criminally overlooked Lou Whitaker to name two - but Pedroia's case is not bad. Essentially Pedroia's profile is virtually identical to, say, Ian Kinsler's. Pedroia probably gets the nod over him though - less overall WAR but a higher peak and more hardware.

[moonslav59]

Longevity matters.

 

Going to the JAWS rankings - Pedroia ranks 19th all time among 2nd basemen - smack in the middle of the pack relative to guys who actually made the hall of fame. There are guys above him with better cases - Bobby Grich and the criminally overlooked Lou Whitaker to name two - but Pedroia's case is not bad. Essentially Pedroia's profile is virtually identical to, say, Ian Kinsler's. Pedroia probably gets the nod over him though - less overall WAR but a higher peak and more hardware.

 

I know longevity matters, and that's why I added the qualifier about who determines the deciding factors.

 

Fisk was here for a over 4,000 PAs, but if someone wants to put Pedey ahead of him, because he has 50% more games with the Sox, I'm fine with that.

 

If longevity (with the Sox) is a major factor, then Pedro, Fisk, Lynn, Nomar, Tiant and others get knocked down significantly, which is okay.

 

One could start another thread on who was the best Sox player for a 5-7 year span. That list may look something like this:

 

1T Williams & Pedro

3 Clemens

4 Young

5 ???

 

[Bellhorn04]

One the two best middle infielders in Red Sox history. (Doerr was the other) Nomar was better the time he was here, but the time was limited and the injuries were what they were.

 

The Top 20 Red Sox ever in terms of fWAR Clemens 76.8, Young 54.8, Pedro 51.9

 

1. Ted Williams 130.4

2. Yaz 94.8

3. Clemens 76.8

4. Boggs 70.8

5. Evans 64.3

6. Cy Young 54.8

7. Tris Speaker 54.4

8. Bobby Doerr 53.3

9. Pedro 51.9

10. Rice 50.3

11. Papi 48.8

12. Pedroia 47.1

13. Fisk 38.3

14. Foxx 37.6

15. Dom Dimaggio, Lefty Grove 34.6

 

Pedro is the best pitcher I ever saw, but Clemens did produce more for the Red Sox overall and that cannot be discounted.

 

This is the only fair way to answer the OP question.

[mvp 78]

Longevity matters.

 

Going to the JAWS rankings - Pedroia ranks 19th all time among 2nd basemen - smack in the middle of the pack relative to guys who actually made the hall of fame. There are guys above him with better cases - Bobby Grich and the criminally overlooked Lou Whitaker to name two - but Pedroia's case is not bad. Essentially Pedroia's profile is virtually identical to, say, Ian Kinsler's. Pedroia probably gets the nod over him though - less overall WAR but a higher peak and more hardware.

 

There are A LOT of guys from WW2 days who have been elected to the HOF that don't deserve to be. Pedroia is behind Willie Randolph, Grich and Whitaker. I think he's on the outside looking in and I don't believe he has a shot at all.. Pedroia only has 1800 hits, which is still an important factor for entry. He doesn't deserve to be in just because the old boys club pushed Evers, McPhee, Schoendienst, Mazeroski and Huggins in. Those guys were definitely not worthy of being in the HOF.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm afraid this injury snuffed Pedroia's chances for the HOF.

[mvp 78]

I'm afraid this injury snuffed Pedroia's chances for the HOF.

 

He would have needed to get to about 2500 hits, so 4 healthy years.

[Slasher9]

FTR he has 3 WS rings.

he is not close to sniffing the top 10 Red Sox players of alltime.

he's slightly ahead of spike owen and slightly behind marty barrett.

[OH FOY]

There are A LOT of guys from WW2 days who have been elected to the HOF that don't deserve to be. Pedroia is behind Willie Randolph, Grich and Whitaker. I think he's on the outside looking in and I don't believe he has a shot at all.. Pedroia only has 1800 hits, which is still an important factor for entry. He doesn't deserve to be in just because the old boys club pushed Evers, McPhee, Schoendienst, Mazeroski and Huggins in. Those guys were definitely not worthy of being in the HOF.

 

So you think a guy like Hank Greenberg shouldn't be in the HOF? Only had 331 Career HRS.

Edited May 28, 2019 by OH FOY!

[mvp 78]

So you think a guy like Hank Greenberg shouldn't be in the HOF? Only had 331 Career HRS.

 

Greenberg OPS+ 158, career OBP 412

Pedroia OPS+ 113, career OBP 365

 

The only people above Greenberg in JAWS at his position not elected to the HOF are Helton and Palmeiro. Greenberg deserves to be in. Pedroia does not. Also helps that Greenberg lost multiple years due to being in the service as most voters understand that he would have had 400+ HRs if he didn't go to war.

[mvp 78]

FTR he has 3 WS rings.

he is not close to sniffing the top 10 Red Sox players of alltime.

he's slightly ahead of spike owen and slightly behind marty barrett.

 

How would you compare him to Jody Reed though?

[OH FOY]

Greenberg lost 47 months, due to military service, the longest on any Major Leaguer in history. (Basically 5 years) Bet people don't know Willie Mays lost basically 2 years due to military service.

[jung]

I think he just nudges out Bobby Doerr as best Sox 2nd baseman all time. So if that were true, you could look at the esteem that Doerr is held in and take a guess at where Pedey should be. You could also argue that Doerr just noses out Pedey. That is some company to be keeping though.

[Bellhorn04]

FTR he has 3 WS rings.

he is not close to sniffing the top 10 Red Sox players of alltime.

he's slightly ahead of spike owen and slightly behind marty barrett.

 

And I always thought you were a parade guy...

[moonslav59]

I think he just nudges out Bobby Doerr as best Sox 2nd baseman all time. So if that were true, you could look at the esteem that Doerr is held in and take a guess at where Pedey should be. You could also argue that Doerr just noses out Pedey. That is some company to be keeping though.

 

I think Doerr wins hands down.

 

He missed a year due to military service right after his best season of his career.

 

He had 8 seasons over .800 and all 13 of his full seasons over .750. 8 times in the top 24 in MVP voting.

 

Pedey won one MVP, but finished in the voting just 3 times.

 

6 seasons over .800, including one year with just 302 PAs. 10 out of 11 seasons over .750.