Where does Dustin Pedroia rank in Red Sox history?

[Slasher9]

And I always thought you were a parade guy...

 

hahaha. i am. my last sentence was complete nonsense. he would be the starting 2bman on the alltime Red Sox team.

[Slasher9]

I think Doerr wins hands down.

 

He missed a year due to military service right after his best season of his career.

 

He had 8 seasons over .800 and all 13 of his full seasons over .750. 8 times in the top 24 in MVP voting.

 

Pedey won one MVP, but finished in the voting just 3 times.

 

6 seasons over .800, including one year with just 302 PAs. 10 out of 11 seasons over .750.

 

meh. just about his entire career was against white players only. doerr would be pedey's backup.

[moonslav59]

meh. just about his entire career was against white players only. doerr would be pedey's backup.

 

It was a smaller league- not watered down.

 

Plus, you could count on Doerr to be there every year. Dependability has value, too.

[jung]

I think Doerr wins hands down.

 

He missed a year due to military service right after his best season of his career.

 

He had 8 seasons over .800 and all 13 of his full seasons over .750. 8 times in the top 24 in MVP voting.[/b]

 

Pedey won one MVP, but finished in the voting just 3 times.

 

6 seasons over .800, including one year with just 302 PAs. 10 out of 11 seasons over .750.[/b]

 

"I think Doerr wins hands down"

In an 8 team league all within train travel distance of each other and all in two time zones and before the emergence of the relief pitcher. I would take either one frankly. There is no real way to do direct comparisons between eras IMO. Not sure its "hands down Doerr" but I could buy Doerr as the better 2nd baseman. I can't argue successfully against Doerr. But i think it would be just as hard to argue against Pedey.

 

Would not shock me in the least if they both end up in the same spots by the same routes with regard to their legacies as players.

Edited May 28, 2019 by jung

[moonslav59]

In an 8 team league all within train travel distance of each other and all in two time zones and before the emergence of the relief pitcher. I would take either one frankly. There is no real way to do direct comparisons between eras IMO. Not sure its "hands down Doerr" but I could buy Doerr as the better 2nd baseman.

 

Okay, maybe the "hands down" was hyperbole, but I'll take Doerr's numbers over Pedey, and since I never saw Doerr play, that's what I have to go by.

 

(BTW, his best season looks better than Pedey's MVP season- on paper.)

[jung]

Okay, maybe the "hands down" was hyperbole, but I'll take Doerr's numbers over Pedey, and since I never saw Doerr play, that's what I have to go by.

 

(BTW, his best season looks better than Pedey's MVP season- on paper.)

 

It pains me to point out (not anything to do with the forum but more because i am so irritated that we STILL have not put this behind us as a country yet) but MLB did not even begin to integrate till 1947. Some darned good ballplayers never got to play MLB but were playing somewhere. Hard to imagine there are not some darned good 2nd basemen that should have been playing MLB on talent alone in Doerr's era.

[mvp 78]

Hall of Fame Statistics

Black Ink

Batting - 11 (230), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink

Batting - 70 (375), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor

Batting - 94 (189), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards

Batting - 32 (282), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS

Second Base (19th):

51.7 career WAR / 42.4 7yr-peak WAR / 47.0 JAWS

Average HOF 2B (out of 20):

69.4 career WAR / 44.4 7yr-peak WAR / 56.9 JAWS

[notin]

Pedroia vs Doerr for best Sox second baseman is a good argument. But who’s the third best second baseman in team history? Marty Barrett? Billy Goodman?

 

It’s really odd how few really good ones there have been in 116 years...

[Bellhorn04]

Pedroia vs Doerr for best Sox second baseman is a good argument. But who’s the third best second baseman in team history? Marty Barrett? Billy Goodman?

 

It’s really odd how few really good ones there have been in 116 years...

 

Second base is not really a star position. You would probably have similar trouble naming really good ones from other teams.

[Slasher9]

Second base is not really a star position. You would probably have similar trouble naming really good ones from other teams.

 

and the llist of all the great alltime 2bman commences in 5, 4, 3, 2,......

[notin]

Second base is not really a star position. You would probably have similar trouble naming really good ones from other teams.

 

I think any of the original 16 teams can get me a list of at least 3 better than Goodman/Barrett

Edited May 28, 2019 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

I think any of the original 16 teams can get me a list of at least 3 better than Goodman/Barrett

 

Did you try it?

[notin]

Did you try it?

 

I looked into it objectively.

 

Pete Runnels ranked 61st in fWAR at 2b, and he earned the honor or “third best Sox 2b”, as he was slightly ahead of Goodman.

 

11 of the original 16 teams had 3 or more second basemen ahead of Runnels since 1903. Only the Braves (0), the Pirates (1 - Mazeroski), the Phillies (1 - Utley), the Guardians (2 - Lajoie, Alomar), and the White Sox (2 - Fox, Durham) had fewer.

 

I tried to use players for the team they are spent a significant portion of their career with only...

[mvp 78]

Runnels only played 5 years with the Sox though. They were a great 5 years, but didn't have the longevity. That's why I'd give it to Goodman.

[notin]

I looked into it objectively.

 

Pete Runnels ranked 61st in fWAR at 2b, and he earned the honor or “third best Sox 2b”, as he was slightly ahead of Goodman.

 

11 of the original 16 teams had 3 or more second basemen ahead of Runnels since 1903. Only the Braves (0), the Pirates (1 - Mazeroski), the Phillies (1 - Utley), the Guardians (2 - Lajoie, Alomar), and the White Sox (2 - Fox, Durham) had fewer.

 

I tried to use players for the team they are spent a significant portion of their career with only...

 

Probably done too quickly. I counted Joe Gordon as a Yankee, but he had a great start to his career as an Indian. And the Yankees had Willie Randolph and Gil McDougald, whom I didn’t put anywhere because I had my 3 Yankees, with Lazzeri, Gordon and Cano...

Edited May 28, 2019 by notin

[notin]

Runnels only played 5 years with the Sox though. They were a great 5 years, but didn't have the longevity. That's why I'd give it to Goodman.

 

They were ranked closely, so it doesn’t change anything. Except add Johnny Ray to my still short Pirates list and give the Guardians Bobby Avila, if you don’t like my Joe Gordon decision...

[cp176]

I looked into it objectively.

 

Pete Runnels ranked 61st in fWAR at 2b, and he earned the honor or “third best Sox 2b”, as he was slightly ahead of Goodman.

 

11 of the original 16 teams had 3 or more second basemen ahead of Runnels since 1903. Only the Braves (0), the Pirates (1 - Mazeroski), the Phillies (1 - Utley), the Guardians (2 - Lajoie, Alomar), and the White Sox (2 - Fox, Durham) had fewer.

 

I tried to use players for the team they are spent a significant portion of their career with only...

 

I loved me some Pete Runnels. A few others at least worthy of mention - Mike Andrews '67 and Doug Grifin to follow. Most of us felt that Griffin was going to be that guy for a long time and then of course the beaning. Jerry Remy wasn't too bad around that bag for us either. I have to admit though that one of my old favorites was Chuck Schilling - all glove no hit. Bet you could guess why I liked him. He gave me a reason to think that I still had a chance.

[S5Dewey]

It pains me to point out (not anything to do with the forum but more because i am so irritated that we STILL have not put this behind us as a country yet) but MLB did not even begin to integrate till 1947. Some darned good ballplayers never got to play MLB but were playing somewhere. Hard to imagine there are not some darned good 2nd basemen that should have been playing MLB on talent alone in Doerr's era.

 

In what is IMO one of the greatest quotes of all time, it's alleged that when Satchel Page was asked, "But don't you wish you'd had a chance to play against the best players of your time?", Page replied, "What makes you think I didn't?"