Craig Kimbrel...

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, tell me why he increases your liking of the Cubs.

 

The Cubs and Pirates have always been my fave NL clubs, but getting Kimbrel does not move me in any direction, except maybe to think Theo is slipping.

 

I don't see why this signing indicates Theo is slipping.

 

The Cubs needed bullpen help perhaps more than any other team in baseball.

 

It's not a wacko deal.

[a700hitter]

I don't see why this signing indicates Theo is slipping.

 

The Cubs needed bullpen help perhaps more than any other team in baseball.

 

It's not a wacko deal.

i agree. Signing one of the greatest closers of all time when your bullpen stinks shouldn’t be criticized. The money is far from insane for a guy of this quality. When he is right, hitters just don’t have a chance.

[notin]

I don't see why this signing indicates Theo is slipping.

 

The Cubs needed bullpen help perhaps more than any other team in baseball.

 

It's not a wacko deal.

 

 

I didn’t want Kimbrel back on a 6 year deal, but a 3 year deal would have been fine with me...

[moonslav59]

I don't see why this signing indicates Theo is slipping.

 

The Cubs needed bullpen help perhaps more than any other team in baseball.

 

It's not a wacko deal.

 

IMO, Kimbrel is on the decline.

 

3 years is not bad, and the amount is not bad, assuming Kimbrel pitches like 2017, and maybe even 2018 sans the playoffs.

 

The Cubs are in a budget pinch, too, so I see this as spending too much, and his contract will prevent other signings.

 

Just my opinion.

[moonslav59]

I didn’t want Kimbrel back on a 6 year deal, but a 3 year deal would have been fine with me...

 

Had we not signed Pearce, we could have signed Kimbrel and stayed under the max line.

 

I would not have gone over the line for him, even at 3 years- $30M.

[redsoxrules]

I see Kimbrel is doing just fine with the Cubs

[Bellhorn04]

I see Kimbrel is doing just fine with the Cubs

 

What a disaster. Good think we didn't do that, at least.

[Kimmi]

What a disaster. Good think we didn't do that, at least.

 

I would not have done that deal, but in fairness to Kimbrel, we don't know what might have happened if he were signed during the offseason and went through normal spring training with most of the other pitchers. In other words, sitting out until midseason might be a big factor in why he's been injured and pitching so poorly.

 

On a side note, thank goodness I'm not a Cubs fan. The series sweep to the rival Cards this past weekend would have done me in.

[a700hitter]

What a disaster. Good think we didn't do that, at least.

Theo is overrated.

[a700hitter]

Kimbrel has 20 saves, 0.61 ERA , 49 k’s and 9 walks. When he is right, it just isn’t fair for hitters. He destroys them.

[notin]

Kimbrel has 20 saves, 0.61 ERA , 49 k’s and 9 walks. When he is right, it just isn’t fair for hitters. He destroys them.

 

With Kimbrel, we’ve gone past the phase of his career where it’s just about talent. He is on right now, but he hasn’t really been on since the first half off 2018. I get why the Sox let him go and I can’t call it a mistake because he returned to form 3 years later…

[a700hitter]

With Kimbrel, we’ve gone past the phase of his career where it’s just about talent. He is on right now, but he hasn’t really been on since the first half off 2018. I get why the Sox let him go and I can’t call it a mistake because he returned to form 3 years later…

i wasn’t debating that, just enjoying that he is back to his dominant form. When he is right, it is hard to find someone better.

[dgalehouse]

By the way , how is future Hall of Famer Logan Allen doing these days ? What a massive " overpay " by Dombrowski back in 2016.

[notin]

By the way , how is future Hall of Famer Logan Allen doing these days ? What a massive " overpay " by Dombrowski back in 2016.

 

We traded 3 BA Top 100 prospects for a closer on a heavy contract . For point of reference, we only gave up two for Chris Sale, who contract was the biggest bargain in MLB…

[Bellhorn04]

We traded 3 BA Top 100 prospects for a closer on a heavy contract . For point of reference, we only gave up two for Chris Sale, who contract was the biggest bargain in MLB…

 

It was a good contract we got on Kimbrel.

[dgalehouse]

We traded 3 BA Top 100 prospects for a closer on a heavy contract . For point of reference, we only gave up two for Chris Sale, who contract was the biggest bargain in MLB…

 

You were , and are , absolutely wrong about this . It was far from an overpay ; in fact it was a great deal for the Sox. We got three All Star seasons from one of the all time great closers in return for an average outfielder and table scraps. Definitely not an overpay. You really should give Dombrowski credit on this one.

[Kimmi]

By the way , how is future Hall of Famer Logan Allen doing these days ? What a massive " overpay " by Dombrowski back in 2016.

 

Massive overpay for Kimbrel. As I like to say, it was the double whammy. Massive overpay in terms of prospects and salary.

 

This is a move that I would not make in a million years.

[mvp 78]

Javy Guerra - 60 Day IL elbow

Logan Allen - ERA/FIP above 9

Margot - 5.8 fWAR since the trade

Asuaje - 641 career MLB OPS, has bounced around between KBO and AAA past few years

 

Kimbrel - 6.4 fWAR for BOS

 

Red Sox got the better of the deal. Maybe it was a little bit of an overpay, but it definitely didn't come back to bite them.

[Kimmi]

Javy Guerra - 60 Day IL elbow

Logan Allen - ERA/FIP above 9

Margot - 5.8 fWAR since the trade

Asuaje - 641 career MLB OPS, has bounced around between KBO and AAA past few years

 

Kimbrel - 6.4 fWAR for BOS

 

Red Sox got the better of the deal. Maybe it was a little bit of an overpay, but it definitely didn't come back to bite them.

 

You have not taken salary into account, nor years of service.

[Bellhorn04]

Massive overpay for Kimbrel. As I like to say, it was the double whammy. Massive overpay in terms of prospects and salary.

 

Nope, not a double whammy. Contract was good.

[Bellhorn04]

The contract we assumed on Kimbrel had 2 more years guaranteed for a total of $24 mill, plus a team option for one year at $13 mill.

 

That was a very favorable contract. How much would he have gotten if he was a free agent instead?

 

Papelbon got $50 million after the 2011 season.

 

Chapman got $86 million and Jansen got $80 million after the 2016 season.

 

I would guess Kimbrel could have gotten maybe $70 mill as a free agent.

[mvp 78]

You have not taken salary into account, nor years of service.

 

What's the issue with years of service if guys like Guerra/Allen/Asuaje aren't providing meaningful contributions to an MLB organization?

[notin]

Javy Guerra - 60 Day IL elbow

Logan Allen - ERA/FIP above 9

Margot - 5.8 fWAR since the trade

Asuaje - 641 career MLB OPS, has bounced around between KBO and AAA past few years

 

Kimbrel - 6.4 fWAR for BOS

 

Red Sox got the better of the deal. Maybe it was a little bit of an overpay, but it definitely didn't come back to bite them.

 

It worked out, but that does not mean it wasn’t an overpay. I was surprised the Sox gave up that much and took on the entire salary for a pitcher who, seven months earlier, was traded with salary dump BJ Upton for Carlos Quentin (salary dump who never played again), Cameron Maybin, and one ranked prospect in Matt Wisler…

[notin]

What's the issue with years of service if guys like Guerra/Allen/Asuaje aren't providing meaningful contributions to an MLB organization?

 

Logan Allen was also part of a return for Trevor Bauer and got San Diego Taylor Trammell.

 

It’s not always just about if they pan out or not. Overpaying limits future trades. Maybe if the Sox held on to Allen, he could have been dealt later instead of Ty Buttrey or Jalen Beeks, for example. (Probably not instead of Kopech. Gotta be somewhat realistic here.)

[dgalehouse]

The results indicate that it was a good deal for the Sox. We won the A.L. East in 2016 , 2017 and 2018. You may debate just how important the acquisition of Kimbrel was to that success , but the fact is that it has not happened before or since. Meanwhile, Margot has established himself as a decent MLB player , but the other three have shown next to nothing. Their stock and trade value was maximized in this deal . It would not have grown any by keeping them. And their departure did very little to decimate the farm. I understand why some did not like this trade when it happened , but given how it turned out, I cannot understand how you can still question it.

[Bellhorn04]

It worked out, but that does not mean it wasn’t an overpay. I was surprised the Sox gave up that much and took on the entire salary for a pitcher who, seven months earlier, was traded with salary dump BJ Upton for Carlos Quentin (salary dump who never played again), Cameron Maybin, and one ranked prospect in Matt Wisler…

 

I don't see how the fact that Kimbrel was salary-dumped by Atlanta has any bearing on his market value at the time we traded for him.

[notin]

The results indicate that it was a good deal for the Sox. We won the A.L. East in 2016 , 2017 and 2018. You may debate just how important the acquisition of Kimbrel was to that success , but the fact is that it has not happened before or since. Meanwhile, Margot has established himself as a decent MLB player , but the other three have shown next to nothing. Their stock and trade value was maximized in this deal . It would not have grown any by keeping them. And their departure did very little to decimate the farm. I understand why some did not like this trade when it happened , but given how it turned out, I cannot understand how you can still question it.

 

Based on what?

[notin]

I don't see how the fact that Kimbrel was salary-dumped by Atlanta has any bearing on his market value at the time we traded for him.

 

 

Wasn’t he also salary-dumped by San Diego? But with one less year of control?

[dgalehouse]

Based on what?

 

Based on what we got for them, of course. What do you suppose they are worth today?

[Bellhorn04]

Wasn’t he also salary-dumped by San Diego? But with one less year of control?

 

Sure. And Mookie Betts was salary-dumped by us, with one year of control and a $27 million salary. And yet he commanded a high return.

 

I don't really see your point.