2019 Spring Training Thread

[Slasher9]

That's a pretty dumb takeaway.

 

sorry. was it Paxton?

paxton > Sale. got it.

hopefully we can score a lot of runs this season because our pitching is so terrible.

[BillyWilliams]

That's a pretty dumb takeaway.

 

Well, in his defense, he's about as sharp as a marble ...........

[mvp 78]

Well, the first game back when he threw harder was the followed by another lengthy DL stint. When he returned from the final DL stint, he wasn’t the same guy

 

@alexspeier

 

Dombrowski on Sale’s present/future: ‘He’s healthy. He’s cleared to be in a normal spring training. ... he’s a guy we’d like to be in the organization.’

[notin]

Lets look at 2018 WAR (Fangraphs)

 

Yankees

Severino- 5.7

Paxton- 3.8

Tanaka- 2.7

Happ- 3.2

Sabathia- 2.5

 

Red Sox

Sale-6.5

Price- 2.7

Porcello- 2.7

ERod- 2.3

Eovaldi- 2.2

 

Total WAR, Yanks- 17.9, Sox- 16.4

 

Most pundits like the sox rotation better because they think David Price is still an ace and Chris Sale is a beast. Price is no longer an ace. Heck, Happ has out-WAR'd him two years running. Sale is a beast. He just may not be healthy. Our 2-5 out-WAR'd your 2-5 by 2.3 WAR. That's not insignificant. I know the injury bug can hit pitchers more than others. I know both sides have injury concerns. But where the sox have a distinct advantage (the ace slot), the injury concern is on the shoulder of the sox ace. That isn't deniable. Severino really hasn't had much in the way of injury concerns aside from a short DL stint for some elbow tightness two or three years ago.

 

 

 

Thank God we have your unbiased opinion to set those silly pundits straight (and to tell them what facts they are using and why those are wrong).

 

And thank you for pointing out Happ’s superiority to Price and evidencing it with a season where Price threw all of 79 IP...

[moonslav59]

Lets look at 2018 WAR (Fangraphs)

 

Yankees

Severino- 5.7

Paxton- 3.8

Tanaka- 2.7

Happ- 3.2

Sabathia- 2.5

 

Red Sox

Sale-6.5

Price- 2.7

Porcello- 2.7

ERod- 2.3

Eovaldi- 2.2

 

Total WAR, Yanks- 17.9, Sox- 16.4

 

Most pundits like the sox rotation better because they think David Price is still an ace and Chris Sale is a beast. Price is no longer an ace. Heck, Happ has out-WAR'd him two years running. Sale is a beast. He just may not be healthy. Our 2-5 out-WAR'd your 2-5 by 2.3 WAR. That's not insignificant. I know the injury bug can hit pitchers more than others. I know both sides have injury concerns. But where the sox have a distinct advantage (the ace slot), the injury concern is on the shoulder of the sox ace. That isn't deniable. Severino really hasn't had much in the way of injury concerns aside from a short DL stint for some elbow tightness two or three years ago.

 

Beyond the ace spot, yes, the Yanks have two older pitchers. The sox have one in Price. Both have been very effective when healthy. Price was very effective when healthy last year too. Price has had a bad elbow that caused him to miss more than half the 2017 season and a few weeks of 2018. Paxton seems to be injured yearly. Porcello seems to continuously take the mound 30+ times. 3 of the last 4 years, Happ has as well. Tanaka has started 27 games or more 3 years running but has been DL'd in consecutive seasons for lower body issues. ERod has been DL'd the past 2 years with lower body issues. CC has an arthritic knee and just had a frickin coronary stent placed. Eovaldi is a walking DL with a twice repaired UCL. The idea that either team is head and shoulders healthier than the other is pure folly. Both sides have injury risks. I just think (and back it up by STATS) that the Yankees rotation is more well rounded with the sox having a good supporting cast behind an unquestioned ace. If the ace isn't ace-like this year due to his shoulder, the Yanks will have the better rotation. If multiple injury risks on the Yanks side go down, the sox will have the better rotation.

 

Why choose just 2018? Could it be because it supports your position?

 

Why not choose last 2-3 years or second half 2018?

 

Here's 2nd half 2018:

 

WAR

2.1 Tanaka

1.5 Severino

1.3 CC

1.1 Happ

0.8 Paxton

 

1.6 Eovaldi

1.5 Sale

1.5 Price

0.7 Porcello

0.3 ERod

 

Sale = Severino

Price> Paxton

Tanaka > Porcello

Eovaldi > Happ

CC > ERod

[bkzwhitestrican]

Why choose just 2018? Could it be because it supports your position?

 

Why not choose last 2-3 years or second half 2018?

 

Here's 2nd half 2018:

 

WAR

2.1 Tanaka

1.5 Severino

1.3 CC

1.1 Happ

0.8 Paxton

 

1.6 Eovaldi

1.5 Sale

1.5 Price

0.7 Porcello

0.3 ERod

 

Sale = Severino

Price> Paxton

Tanaka > Porcello

Eovaldi > Happ

CC > ERod

 

I mean if you're gonna list their 2nd halves then why not use total WAR instead of doing one on one comparisons which skew the results?

 

NYY Total WAR: 6.8

BOS Total WAR: 5.6

 

C'mon man!!

[moonslav59]

I mean if you're gonna list their 2nd halves then why not use total WAR instead of doing one on one comparisons which skew the results?

 

NYY Total WAR: 6.8

BOS Total WAR: 5.6

 

C'mon man!!

 

Why? Because Jack said all of your 2-5 starters were better than ours based on 2018 WAR.

 

It's not my way of valuing starters, but his.

[Slasher9]

I mean if you're gonna list their 2nd halves then why not use total WAR instead of doing one on one comparisons which skew the results?

 

NYY Total WAR: 6.8

BOS Total WAR: 5.6

 

C'mon man!!

 

Alex, i will take "the 5.6 WAR pitchers that had a parade" for $500.....

[mvp 78]

As it has been said before, WAR isn't the end all be all. It's not some all encompassing stat.

[dgalehouse]

When you look at the standings of the clubs ; it shows Wins - Losses and Games behind . It doesn't show WAR - Projections and Pythagaras . When you look at the scoreboard; it shows Runs - Hits and Errors . It doesn't show OPS - WHIP and UZR . The basics are still the basics . Too much gibberish around these days .

[notin]

When you look at the standings of the clubs ; it shows Wins - Losses and Games behind . It doesn't show WAR - Projections and Pythagaras . When you look at the scoreboard; it shows Runs - Hits and Errors . It doesn't show OPS - WHIP and UZR . The basics are still the basics . Too much gibberish around these days .

 

 

Oh galehouse, you’re about one step away from Bobby Moynihan’s “Drunk Uncle” character with this rant

[dgalehouse]

Oh galehouse, you’re about one step away from Bobby Moynihan’s “Drunk Uncle” character with this rant

 

I have no idea what that is . If it's good , I'm okay with it .

[notin]

I have no idea what that is . If it's good , I'm okay with it .

 

Recurring SNL character a few years ago. I thought Moynihan was hilarious...

[Bellhorn04]

When you look at the standings of the clubs ; it shows Wins - Losses and Games behind . It doesn't show WAR - Projections and Pythagaras . When you look at the scoreboard; it shows Runs - Hits and Errors . It doesn't show OPS - WHIP and UZR . The basics are still the basics . Too much gibberish around these days .

 

But it's the gibberish that enables these long drawn-out debates that some of us seem to draw entertainment from.

[dgalehouse]

Recurring SNL character a few years ago. I thought Moynihan was hilarious...

 

Okay . Actually, I haven't watched SNL since Norm Macdonald left years ago .

[dgalehouse]

But it's the gibberish that enables these long drawn-out debates that some of us seem to draw entertainment from.

 

I think all this acronym business started with the government years ago . Now , it is way out of control. Just a lot of gobbledygook to mask the plain , simple facts . What can I say ? I am definitely a dinosaur.

[BillyWilliams]

When you look at the standings of the clubs ; it shows Wins - Losses and Games behind . It doesn't show WAR - Projections and Pythagaras . When you look at the scoreboard; it shows Runs - Hits and Errors . It doesn't show OPS - WHIP and UZR . The basics are still the basics . Too much gibberish around these days .

 

Do you prefer snail mail, fax or email?

 

Do you go to the store in a horse drawn buggy or an automobile?

 

Do you send smoke signals or prefer a phone?

[bkzwhitestrican]

Do you prefer snail mail, fax or email?

 

Do you go to the store in a horse drawn buggy or an automobile?

 

Do you send smoke signals or prefer a phone?

 

Yo momma so old that there was no such thing as history class when she was in school

[dgalehouse]

Do you prefer snail mail, fax or email?

 

Do you go to the store in a horse drawn buggy or an automobile?

 

Do you send smoke signals or prefer a phone?

 

Hey , that's really good stuff . Very clever. Gullible, predictable, but very clever .

[BillyWilliams]

Hey , that's really good stuff . Very clever. Gullible, predictable, but very clever .

 

The bottom line is statistics like most things have evolved.

 

Just curious as to why you avoid the advanced metrics while you don't avoid the other technological advancements......

[notin]

Do you prefer snail mail, fax or email?

 

Do you go to the store in a horse drawn buggy or an automobile?

 

Do you send smoke signals or prefer a phone?

 

A phone? Is that one of those old-timey things with a dial that people used to talk into? I think I saw one in a museum once...

[dgalehouse]

The bottom line is statistics like most things have evolved.

 

Just curious as to why you avoid the advanced metrics while you don't avoid the other technological advancements......

 

Actually, I don't entirely avoid the advanced metrics . I am familiar with them . I just don't get too crazy about it . After all is said and done , the game is still really pretty simple .

[BillyWilliams]

Actually, I don't entirely avoid the advanced metrics . I am familiar with them . I just don't get too crazy about it . After all is said and done , the game is still really pretty simple .

 

I agree to some extent but there's really no denying that they are helpful.

[cp176]

When you look at the standings of the clubs ; it shows Wins - Losses and Games behind . It doesn't show WAR - Projections and Pythagaras . When you look at the scoreboard; it shows Runs - Hits and Errors . It doesn't show OPS - WHIP and UZR . The basics are still the basics . Too much gibberish around these days .

 

Might be you have over simplified things a bit here but there are some points made. The actual game itself thank god really hasn't changed much but the way people want to approach it certainly has. I don't mind at all if I am considered truly old fashioned with respect to my personal approach to the game. There are many people here who can make me look foolish with their incredible grasp of an analytical approach to the game. What keeps me here is that I feel quite confident that I can hold my own in a discussion of what matters the most to me - the actual game.

[cp176]

I agree to some extent but there's really no denying that they are helpful.

 

I think that any available metric could be quite helpful when evaluating the value of any player. Not having a total grasp of them all, does not mean that you are limited in your knowledge of the actual game itself and having a total grasp of them does not mean that you know any more about the game than the next old dub who has been involved in the game forever.

[notin]

Actually, I don't entirely avoid the advanced metrics . I am familiar with them . I just don't get too crazy about it . After all is said and done , the game is still really pretty simple .

 

 

It’s just a different method of analyzing the same game.

 

You’re old enough to remember thermometers filled with mercury (and the horrible places people had to put them), but nowadays we have these magical electronic gizmos you swipe across your forehead or pop in your ear for one second. They all work, but at the end of the day, it’s all still looking at temperature...

[mvp 78]

When you look at the standings of the clubs ; it shows Wins - Losses and Games behind . It doesn't show WAR - Projections and Pythagaras . When you look at the scoreboard; it shows Runs - Hits and Errors . It doesn't show OPS - WHIP and UZR . The basics are still the basics . Too much gibberish around these days .

 

WAR is now listed on the back of Topps baseball cards you old fart.

[dgalehouse]

WAR is now listed on the back of Topps baseball cards you old fart.

 

That must mean that WAR is now a " baseball card stat ." Therefore , WAR is obsolete . You young whippersnapper .

[mvp 78]

That must mean that WAR is now a " baseball card stat ." Therefore , WAR is obsolete . You young whippersnapper .

 

Every stat is special to me. They all are useful when I need to pick and chose backup for another dumb argument on here.

[dgalehouse]

Every stat is special to me. They all are useful when I need to pick and chose backup for another dumb argument on here.

 

The best thing about stats today is that there are so many of them . One can almost always find a stat , in a selective sample size or carefully chosen time frame , to support just about any somewhat reasonable position. The arguments are endless .