If we really have problems at second next year, remember this:

[moonslav59]

Who really are these fabled obsessed Red Sox fans? I have heard a few people suggesting it but they certainly didn't sound absolutely sold on the idea. This is what happens here.

 

Well, it's been brought up like 20 times, and someone always agrees with the idea, so there's at least two of them.

[moonslav59]

If we're going to go that route we can also move JDM to 1st & trade Moreland for a new DH who hits better than Moreland.

 

let's move JD to catcher and maximize our offense.

[Spudboy]

The likelihood that Pedroia returns as a productive player are close to nil.

 

Bringing back Kinsler would solidify defense at second but sacrifice offense.

 

He has performed about 40 points lower than his career BA for the past 2 seasons.

 

Holt is not a huge drop-off defensively and he should be a more consistent and productive hitter.

 

I like Nunez a lot. Let's just hope he is healthy in 2019.

[cp176]

Well, it's been brought up like 20 times, and someone always agrees with the idea, so there's at least two of them.

 

What hasn't been brought up at least 20 times here? It is just silly to suggest that there is much of a clamor even here to move Mookie back to second base. Saying that it has been considered and that it could be done doesn't mean that it has a lot of support.

[Bellhorn04]

What hasn't been brought up at least 20 times here? It is just silly to suggest that there is much of a clamor even here to move Mookie back to second base. Saying that it has been considered and that it could be done doesn't mean that it has a lot of support.

 

Yep, on this thread, Dojji is the only one in favor of the idea.

[cp176]

Yep, on this thread, Dojji is the only one in favor of the idea.

 

yup - and most of the time he is one of the posters I pay the most attention to (as are you of course). I don't think that the thought of moving Mookie back to second would gain much traction but it definitely has been thought about and discussed in Boston. Hey - there have been times that I thought that it might be a good idea. I like our outfield rotation as is right now. I also like the Pearce Morehead combo at first as well. I just don't think that second base warrants extra attention right now. I think that it is covered. Spud mentioned that possibility of even bringing Kinsler back ( much less $ of course) for defensive purposes if need be. Not a bad idea. I wonder how many people will comment now telling me what a horrible fielder Kinsler is because of his miscue during the series.

[sk7326]

The likelihood that Pedroia returns as a productive player are close to nil.

 

Bringing back Kinsler would solidify defense at second but sacrifice offense.

 

He has performed about 40 points lower than his career BA for the past 2 seasons.

 

Holt is not a huge drop-off defensively and he should be a more consistent and productive hitter.

 

I like Nunez a lot. Let's just hope he is healthy in 2019.

 

You are right Kinlser is past his prime. His struggles last year were based on some likely to recur stuff and some flukier stuff (the reverse split). Bottom line, we're okay at 2B and have some ways to insure it.

[Emp9]

Moving Mookie to 2B at this point only KIND OF makes sense if.... JD stays a DH fulltime, we move Beni to RF, AND we sign a Masher for LF. But that would mean 2 position changes and an unhappy JD strictly being a DH. Me? I'd rather forget all this craziness and simply try Lin at 2B fulltime.

[moonslav59]

What hasn't been brought up at least 20 times here? It is just silly to suggest that there is much of a clamor even here to move Mookie back to second base. Saying that it has been considered and that it could be done doesn't mean that it has a lot of support.

 

I said two. I never said a lot of support.

 

You can tell it's getting boring, when these kinds of issues get beat to death.

[dgalehouse]

You know you have a good team when folks have to search hard to find an area of concern. I don't see second base as a real worry.

[Dojji]

Which is another reason why it’s a bad plan.

 

No idea why Sox fans are so obsessed with getting Betts back to the infield...

 

Betts to the infield is about maximizing Betts's own value, and putting a better hitter in a position where we've been weak for a long time.

 

Speaking as one of the few people in favor of the idea the reason I'm in favor of it is simple -- second base has been a bit of a sucking chest wound in the last few years with Dustin Pedroia's issues. If it wasn't for Holt's miraculous utility we would have been badly exposed several times already there. Meanwhile we know Betts can get the job done if put in that position, and outfielders are a lot easier to find than infielders.

 

Put simply, it's always going to be easier to find a better than replacement level right fielder and move Betts to second base, than it is to find a better than replacement level second baseman. Since I have every confidence that Betts would develop/would have developed into an above average defensive second baseman, the decision to move him to second and look for another answer in the outfield (JD-Beni-Bradley for example) seems to make sense to me.

[S5Dewey]

Moving Mookie to 2B at this point only KIND OF makes sense if.... JD stays a DH fulltime, we move Beni to RF, AND we sign a Masher for LF. But that would mean 2 position changes and an unhappy JD strictly being a DH. Me? I'd rather forget all this craziness and simply try Lin at 2B fulltime.

 

IMO this is the best idea going short of further strapping ourselves financially by signing a FA 2B - which really isn't a good idea at all.

 

DD & I subscribe to the same age-old belief of being solid up the middle and getting power from the corners. Whatever offense a teams gets up the middle or the defense they get from the corners is a plus. That's why Devers was at 3B and Pearce was at 1B during most of the playoffs. It's also why Kinsler was picked up.

 

IMO we'd all like to have a Robinson Cano (gaaag) type player at 2B but financial considerations make that impossible so I say go with Lin's good defense up the middle and let the offense take care of itself. This team is very good as it currently is - with the exception of a closer - so just tweak things and then let the good times begin.... again.

[oldtimer]

IMO this is the best idea going short of further strapping ourselves financially by signing a FA 2B - which really isn't a good idea at all.

 

DD & I subscribe to the same age-old belief of being solid up the middle and getting power from the corners. Whatever offense a teams gets up the middle or the defense they get from the corners is a plus. That's why Devers was at 3B and Pearce was at 1B during most of the playoffs. It's also why Kinsler was picked up.

 

IMO we'd all like to have a Robinson Cano (gaaag) type player at 2B but financial considerations make that impossible so I say go with Lin's good defense up the middle and let the offense take care of itself. This team is very good as it currently is - with the exception of a closer - so just tweak things and then let the good times begin.... again.

 

Whit Merrifield is a 30 year old above average fielding second baseman who can also hit. He is a FA and turns 30 this year. The only wy he would make sense is if Pedroia is definitely through. I don't think that is the case as yet but we really can't afford Pedroia's 13 mil along with a FA in that position.

[moonslav59]

Unless Henry is okay with spending big this winter, I doubt we touch 2B. We have too many options to try first, and we can look mid season, if none work out.

 

Pedroia

 

Holt

 

Nunez

 

Lin

 

M Hernandez

 

Quiroz

 

[sk7326]

Betts to the infield is about maximizing Betts's own value, and putting a better hitter in a position where we've been weak for a long time.

 

Speaking as one of the few people in favor of the idea the reason I'm in favor of it is simple -- second base has been a bit of a sucking chest wound in the last few years with Dustin Pedroia's issues. If it wasn't for Holt's miraculous utility we would have been badly exposed several times already there. Meanwhile we know Betts can get the job done if put in that position, and outfielders are a lot easier to find than infielders.

 

Put simply, it's always going to be easier to find a better than replacement level right fielder and move Betts to second base, than it is to find a better than replacement level second baseman. Since I have every confidence that Betts would develop/would have developed into an above average defensive second baseman, the decision to move him to second and look for another answer in the outfield (JD-Beni-Bradley for example) seems to make sense to me.

 

He has 27 wins the last 3 years ... I don't think maximizing his value is much of a problem.

[kenmeister]

Unless Henry is okay with spending big this winter, I doubt we touch 2B. We have too many options to try first, and we can look mid season, if none work out.

 

Pedroia

 

Holt

 

Nunez

 

Lin

 

M Hernandez

 

Quiroz

 

 

My vote is for Lin

 

I do think Betts to second when playing in a National League Park has merit.

[notin]

I

My vote is for Lin

 

I do think Betts to second when playing in a National League Park has merit.

 

Until someone spikes his knee breaking up a double play.

 

No merit. Leave Betts where he is...

[Dojji]

I

 

Until someone spikes his knee breaking up a double play.

 

No merit. Leave Betts where he is...

 

Anyone can get hurt at any time, for any reason. Injury paranoia is nonproductive.

[moonslav59]

If Pedey doesn't play, I can see...

 

2B

90 Holt

60 Nunez

12 Lin/Quiroz/Hernandez

 

3B

132 Devers

30 Nunez

 

1B

100 Moreland

60 Pearce

2 JDM

 

DH

145 JDM

15 Pearce

2 Nunez

 

OF

155 Betts

155 Beni

145 JBJ

16 Holt

8 JDM

4 Nunez

3 Swihart

 

 

[notin]

Anyone can get hurt at any time, for any reason. Injury paranoia is nonproductive.

 

Weakening team defense is counterproductive...

[S5Dewey]

Anyone can get hurt at any time, for any reason. Injury paranoia is nonproductive.

 

True... to a point. But at the same time it makes good sense to keep Mookie away from a position where some cheap-shot artist (I'm looking at YOU, Manny Machado) can get a shot at his legs.

[Dojji]

To a point, yes, but a lot of teams rely on first base to stock one of their most important bats, and first base is cheap shot city, so again, it's a minor concern at best

[Dojji]

If Pedey doesn't play, I can see...

 

2B

90 Holt

60 Nunez

12 Lin/Quiroz/Hernandez

 

That's fair but I would like to point out that if we did move Betts, he would be instantly superior to any of these options.

 

I keep hearing that moving Betts to second would somehow weaken second base defensively. That's pretty laughable. Assuming Pedroia is a nonfactor, which is the only situation in which moving Betts could even bs considered, Nunez is only barely competent at second and Holt is roughly average. They're both reasonable options, especially in the absence of a better option, but if a decision was made to move Betts to second, none of these people are going to be getting in the way of that.

 

Betts was a pretty decent defensive 2B when he was tried there, although I'm sure he's rusty he ought to be able to get back to the level he showed when he first came up. He's an excellent defender wherever you put him. I get that it would weaken right field, that's what happens when you move an elite player off a position, but I absolutely reject the idea that Betts would struggle defensively at second, there is nothing at all to suggest this other than rust, and rust is a temporary problem.

 

The primary reason we moved Betts at all is because we had Pedroia. With Pedroia nearing the end of his career the question of whether to move Betts back to his old position is a valid one, at least in my opinion. He would instantly become one of the best second basemen in the league if we did.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Dojji

[Bellhorn04]

To a point, yes, but a lot of teams rely on first base to stock one of their most important bats, and first base is cheap shot city, so again, it's a minor concern at best

 

It's not really a minor concern when you're talking about a 26 year old who is potentially one of the all time greats.

[notin]

That's fair but I would like to point out that if we did move Betts, he would be instantly superior to any of these options.

 

I keep hearing that moving Betts to second would somehow weaken second base defensively. That's pretty laughable. Assuming Pedroia is a nonfactor, which is the only situation in which moving Betts could even bs considered, Nunez is only barely competent at second and Holt is roughly average. They're both reasonable options, especially in the absence of a better option, but if a decision was made to move Betts to second, none of these people are going to be getting in the way of that.

 

Betts was a pretty decent defensive 2B when he was tried there, although I'm sure he's rusty he ought to be able to get back to the level he showed when he first came up. He's an excellent defender wherever you put him. I get that it would weaken right field, that's what happens when you move an elite player off a position, but I absolutely reject the idea that Betts would struggle defensively at second, there is nothing at all to suggest this other than rust, and rust is a temporary problem.

 

The primary reason we moved Betts at all is because we had Pedroia. With Pedroia nearing the end of his career the question of whether to move Betts back to his old position is a valid one, at least in my opinion. He would instantly become one of the best second basemen in the league if we did.

 

Even if he was an upgrade at 2b defensively, RF takes a hit defensively and this is not really up for debate unless the Sox acquire Jason Hayward, which is something no one wants to see happen.

 

The Sox are aware Betts has played 2b, and Pedroia was out nearly all year. Why do you suppose this move was never made?

 

I get your point about it being easier to get a replacement level RF over a replacement level 2b, but in this free agent market, 2b is loaded with good options. Who would you suggest as the new RF?

Edited November 19, 2018 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

I would say trying to fix second base is actually a minor concern. We got through 2018 pretty well with our motley crew of second-sackers.

[Dojji]

Even if he was an upgrade at 2b defensively, RF takes a hit defensively and this is not really up for debate unless the Sox acquire Jason Hayward, which is something no one wants to see happen.

 

The Sox are aware Betts has played 2b, and Pedroia was out nearly all year. Why do you suppose this move was never made?

 

If I had to guess, it's because the Sox did not expect to need a 2B in the offseason and Betts had not worked out at the position in years.

 

I will note that it was still tried a couple times, mostly at Betts' own instigation, and that while there was some obvious rust, it went OK.

 

An interesting wrinkle on all this is if Betts wants to play 2B. If it's something he cares about, moving him might be part of the key to keeping him.

 

I get your point about it being easier to get a replacement level RF over a replacement level 2b, but in this free agent market, 2b is loaded with good options. Who would you suggest as the new RF?

 

Andrew Benintendi.

 

In a broader context, I actually would use the JD-JBJ-Beni outfield and pick up someone like Denard Span to come in as a late inning defensive replacement. In my opinion the upgrade at 2B, which is probably the third most important defensive position after catcher and shortstop, would be worth the downgrade defensively to the outfield that would still leave our outfield well above average as a unit.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Dojji

[Dojji]

I would say trying to fix second base is actually a minor concern. We got through 2018 pretty well with our motley crew of second-sackers.

 

Said motley crew played over their own heads and should not be expected to reprise their performances.

 

Forgive me for thinking that leaving the kid to live the rest of his life with his finger in the dam is an inappropriate solution to the problem before us.

[Bellhorn04]

Said motley crew played over their own heads and should not be expected to reprise their performances.

 

Again with the 'over their heads'?

[Dojji]

Yes. Again with the "over their heads." Brock Holt in particular had the single best year of his career last year. He had his best year ever in OBP, SLG, and RBI, tied for his best year in home runs and was just a couple points shy of his high water mark in batting average. If that isn't "playing over one's head" I don't know what is.

 

Again, expecting Brock Holt to repeat his career year isn't smart. We need a professional second sacker.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Dojji